Successful upgrade of T42 with Crucial M4 128 GB mSATA SSD

[jwjensen356]

Back again. And many thanks again for the help received here. The SSD upgrade has been successfully working for a week The T40 is back to what it was before with the hard drive. I had to sort out the "illegal" problem (by reactivation) and several other changes for the look and feel. At first I was getting an occasional BSOD but I seem to have solved that by using IE as my browser (was using Opera). But I don't see the expected fast performance, boot-ups seem to be about the same as with the HD. The Device Manager has no reds or yellows, everything seems 'right'. The SSD is recognized for what it is. I tried an update of the driver but the return message is that the driver is the latest (6/21/2006). I know that this T40 is no ball of fire but I would recognize an improvement if it was there.

Comments please.

[GACrabill]

... But I don't see the expected fast performance, boot-ups seem to be about the same as with the HD. ... I know that this T40 is no ball of fire but I would recognize an improvement if it was there. ... Comments please.

Please run Crystal Disk Mark (http://www.techspot.com/downloads/3987- ... kmark.html) and compare your results to the results in the first post of this thread : http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112081

Also check Device Manager --> IDE --> Primary --> Advanced to make sure that your IDE bus is running at 'Ultra DMA 5' and not 'PIO'.

You could also download (http://www.techspot.com/downloads/6014- ... hmark.html) and start the free 'AS SSD' benchmarking tool to tell whether the partition alignment is "OK" -or- "BAD". (no need to actually run the benchmarking tests)

Please post your CDM results as well as brand, model, and size of your SSD.

[Johan]

@ jwjensen356:

Sorry if you've already mentioned it, and I if I haven't caught it, but: Also, please check whether your SSD is partition aligned? Under Windows 7, goto Start --> Run --> msinfo32. In Msinfo32 goto Components --> Storage --> Disks, and notice the "Partition Starting Offset". If you see 1024K and 4K (4096 bytes) in your settings then your correctly aligned (see e.g. Checking SSD Partition Alignment or What is partition alignment and why whould I need it? for more information).

Moreover, please verify that TRIM is enabled; open an elevated Command Prompt (= with Administrator rights) and type:

Code: Select all

fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify

The output from fsutil mean the following:

DisableDeleteNotify = 1 (Windows TRIM commands are disabled)
DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Windows TRIM commands are enabled)

To enable TRIM (if it's disabled), go to Command Prompt and type: fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify 0
To disable TRIM, to go Command Prompt and type: fsutil behavior set disabledeletenotify 1

@ GACrabill: Just a side note, Gary: Did you see my question addressed especially to you in this post (beginning :But, now, why do you say this")?

Johan

[jwjensen356]

A quick response to Johan:

TRIM is enabled (returns a 0)

The partition alignment check returns 32,256 (which when divided by 4096 = 7.875). What can be done?

John

[GACrabill]

... The partition alignment check returns 32,256 (which when divided by 4096 = 7.875). What can be done?

That's the ~100mb Partition #0.
It is the second Partition (#1) that is the Operating System partition and it's offset should be divisible by 4096.

[jwjensen356]

Sorry, I did not notice the other partition. Its value is 137436856320 which is divisible by 4096 (= 33553920).

John

[jwjensen356]

Also, checking the IDE bus returns Ultra DMA 2.

John

[jwjensen356]

Another bit of information, I ran ASSSD and it came back with 31K-Bad.

[GACrabill]

Also, checking the IDE bus returns Ultra DMA 2.

There are two items listed in Device Manager --> IDE ATA/ATAPI controllers.
ATA Channel 0 (advanced tab) should say 'ATA disk ... Ultra DMA Mode 5'.
ATA Channel 1 (advanced tab) should say 'ATAPI Cdrom ... Ultra DMA Mode 2'.

If your 'ATA disk' really says 'Ultra DMA Mode 2', then that is an obvious slowdown.

Please let us know if the 'ATA disk' is 'Mode 5', or 'Mode 2' .... getting the 'ATA disk' back to 'Mode 5' may be tougher in Win7 than it was in XP.

[GACrabill]

Sorry, I did not notice the other partition. Its value is 137436856320 which is divisible by 4096 (= 33553920).

That looks like the Partition size ... make sure that you are looking at the Partition Offset for Partition #1.

[GACrabill]

Another bit of information, I ran ASSSD and it came back with 31K-Bad.

That is not good for a Win7 SSD system ... it means that your Operating System is not aligned and the SSD will do twice as much work as normal (an over-simplification but it gets the point across that operating systems must be aligned when using SSDs).

There are ways to fix this, but I have no experience with them (I believe Diskpart can be used).

This mis-alignment was due to a bad Acronis copy/clone/restore.

I would start over again as I suggested earlier by using Paragon Backup/Recovery or Macrium Reflect to create a correctly aligned image-restore from an image-backup of the original Win7 HDD.

Or someone else may jump in here and steer you toward an alignment solution.

[jwjensen356]

Yes, confirmed. The CDROM is Ultra DMA Mode 2 but so is also ATA Disk Ultra DMA Mode 2.

And, yes, re the Disk #0, Partition #1, that is the value 137, 436,856,320.

[GACrabill]

Yes, confirmed. The CDROM is Ultra DMA Mode 2 but so is also ATA Disk Ultra DMA Mode 2.

The XP method of modifying the Registry to 'fix' a harddrive that has reverted to PIO Mode (or something less than 'Ultra DMA Mode 5') does not exist in Win7. Win7 may re-evaluate the speed of the device at every boot, whereas XP would keep a harddrive stuck at slower speeds until forcibly reset with a Registry change. So, I don't know how to get your msata/adapter to run at the correct 'Ultra DMA Mode 5' speed. Is this an adapter problem? ... an alignment problem? ... an msata SSD problem? ... ???????

This is the first time that I have seen a 'slow' SSD (except for Kingspec pata SSDs).

Please confirm the following :
- Thinkpad T40
- Crucial 128GB M500 msata SSD
- Lycom/Addonics msata-to-IDE adapter

Just an FYI, an early poster in the 'New SSD opt. for T4x : mSATA-to-IDE adapter ...' thread reported success with an older Crucial M4 msata SSD using the 'other' adapter. I mention this only because there have been success stories and the only non-success stories were with the 'weird' T43 models. But, unfortunately, there have not been a lot of folks posting their CrystalDiskMark performance results so we don't always know that everyone's SSD is running as fast as it should ... we have just been assuming that everyone is running 'fast'.

And, yes, re the Disk #0, Partition #1, that is the value 137, 436,856,320.

Here are my T40 msinfo values with a 128GB SSD (please post your values) :

Partition Disk #1, Partition #0
Partition Size 103.33 MB (108,347,904 bytes) .... (~100MB Win7 partition)
Partition Starting Offset 32,256 bytes

Partition Disk #1, Partition #1
Partition Size 119.14 GB (127,927,296,000 bytes) ... (Operating System partition)
Partition Starting Offset 108,380,160 bytes ... (divisble by 4096, ~total of lines 2 and 3)

[jwjensen356]

Per your request, more in separate posting.

Yours:
Partition Disk #1, Partition #0
Partition Size 103.33 MB (108,347,904 bytes) .... (~100MB Win7 partition)
Partition Starting Offset 32,256 bytes

Partition Disk #1, Partition #1
Partition Size 119.14 GB (127,927,296,000 bytes) ... (Operating System partition)
Partition Starting Offset 108,380,160 bytes ... (divisble by 4096, ~total of lines 2 and 3)

Mine:
Partition Disk #0, Partition #0
Partition Size 128.00 GB (137,436,171,264 bytes)
Partition Starting Offset 32,256 bytes

Partition Disk #0, Partition #1
Partition Size 95.57 GB (102,618,890,240 bytes)
Partition Starting Offset 137,436,856,320 bytes

[jwjensen356]

Please confirm the following :
- Thinkpad T40
- Crucial 128GB M500 msata SSD
- Lycom/Addonics msata-to-IDE adapter

Mine is the T40, Crucial CT240M500SSD3, Addonics ADMS25IDE adapter

The drive was partitioned in two, using Windows Disk Management (to conform to the portioning of my HD into drives C & D)

I looked around (Googling) and I read the XP information about fixing the PIO problem. I'm surprised that I could not find something specific about a registry fix for W7 and DMA modes 2 and 5. I spent some time doing a registry search re DMA but I could not find anything to follow up on.

[GACrabill]

Mine is the T40, Crucial CT240M500SSD3, Addonics ADMS25IDE adapter. The drive was partitioned in two, using Windows Disk Management (to conform to the portioning of my HD into drives C & D). I looked around (Googling) and I read the XP information about fixing the PIO problem. I'm surprised that I could not find something specific about a registry fix for W7 and DMA modes 2 and 5.

I think that we need to see your CrystalDiskMark performance numbers before assuming that the DMA Mode 2 is the cause of your performance problems.

Here are my CDM results for comparison purposes (all results were '5 passes, 1000MB') :

T40 Win7 (2.0GHz) with Kingston 1.8" micro-SATA SSD 'V+180' 128GB + IDE/micro-SATA adapter :
Seq Read / Write : 82.63 MB/s ... 77.68 MB/s
512K Read / Write : 80.15 MB/s ... 77.18 MB/s
4K Read / Write : 15.83 MB/s ... 30.86 MB/s
4K (QD=32) Read / Write : 17.31 MB/s ... 34.91 MB/s

T40 Win7 (2.0GHz) with Plextor mSATA SSD 'M5M' 256GB + IDE/mSATA adapter :
Seq Read / Write : 80.49 MB/s ... 73.69 MB/s
512K Read / Write : 68.59 MB/s ... 74.53 MB/s
4K Read / Write : 18.57 MB/s ... 26.93 MB/s
4K (QD=32) Read / Write : 20.72 MB/s ... 31.28 MB/s

T40 Win7 (2.0GHz) with Toshiba mSATA SSD 'THNSNF128GMCS' 128GB + IDE/mSATA adapter :
Seq Read / Write : 78.92 MB/s ... 74.91 MB/s
512K Read / Write : 77.70 MB/s ... 76.16 MB/s
4K Read / Write : 14.74 MB/s ... 17.79 MB/s
4K (QD=32) Read / Write : 16.17 MB/s ... 19.92 MB/s

If your CDM results confirm a 'slow' mSata SSD installation, then your choices will be :
1. re-build your Win7 system from scratch by installing Win7 onto the empty SSD (many folks prefer this method since it removes the possibility of cloning/copying issues)
2. image-backup your original HDD onto an external HDD using Paragon Backup/Recovery 2014 Free *or* Macrium Reflect, image-restore from the external HDD to the SSD/adapter after installing the SSD/adapter into the T40
3. fix the alignment problem (Diskpart?) and rerun the CDM tests

Some folks prefer #1 ... I would do #2 ... doing #3 may not fix the problem.

It's very hard to tell what the real problem is without fixing it first.

The performance problem could be caused by :
- Crucial M500 mSata SSD
- Addonics/Lycom adapter
- Acronis 'bad' clone/copy/restore with 'bad' alignment

If you try fixes #1, #2, or #3 ... be sure to use CDM early to help determine which piece of the puzzle was the root cause of the performance problem.

[jwjensen356]

I will do the Crystal benchmark test tomorrow. In the meantime I quickly unplugged the SSD and put back the HD assembly and checked the IDE. Channel 0 comes in as mode 5 and channel 1 comes in as mode 2. This does put some suspicion on the adapter/m500.

Enough for tonight. She-who-must-be-obeyed is casting an anxious eye over here to the computer.

John

[jwjensen356]

Sorry, couldn't figure out how to copy the Crystal graphics but here it is:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 3.0.3 (C) 2007-2013 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 byte/s [SATA/300 = 300,000,000 byte/s]

Sequential Read : 31.655 MB/s
Sequential Write : 32.037 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 31.444 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 31.959 MB/s
Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 11.837 MB/s [ 2889.8 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 17.824 MB/s [ 4351.6 IOPS]
Random Read 4KB (QD=32) : 13.017 MB/s [ 3178.0 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32) : 20.414 MB/s [ 4983.9 IOPS]

Test : 1000 MB [C: 58.5% (74.9/128.0 GB)] (x5)
Date : 2014/07/28 11:46:56
OS : Windows 7 Professional SP1 [6.1 Build 7601] (x86)

[ajkula66]

^^^^^^^

That is sloooooooooooooooooooooooooow....

[GACrabill]

Sequential Read : 31.655 MB/s
Sequential Write : 32.037 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 31.444 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 31.959 MB/s

Your first four results are noticeably lower than they should be.

Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 11.837 MB/s [ 2889.8 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 17.824 MB/s [ 4351.6 IOPS]
Random Read 4KB (QD=32) : 13.017 MB/s [ 3178.0 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32) : 20.414 MB/s [ 4983.9 IOPS]

The last four results are far better than a HDD.

There is a #4 option for you to try to see if you can solve the 'Ultra DMA Mode 2' performance problem and make the SSD/adapter combo run at 'Ultra DMA Mode 5'.

#4 - create an image-backup of the current SSD in case you need it, load a Windows 7 system from scratch onto the SSD/adapter combo (no need for lots of updates), check to see if the IDE controller is running at 'DMA 2' or 'DMA 5'. If it's 'DMA 2', then it's either an M500 or Addonics/Lycom adapter problem. If it's 'DMA 5', then you could try restoring the image-backup to see if Macrium Relect will automatically re-align the partitions which may then result in a 'DMA 5' system. If that doesn't result in an aligned system running at 'DMA 5', then you are stuck with options #1 or #2 or #3.

Please keep us informed of your progress ... Good luck.

[automobus]

jwjensen356, what firmware does your T40 run? Please report your BIOS and EC revision. Recently, burns334 observed capped speeds like yours, but did not return to tell us results of flashing newer firmware. I ask you to take note what revision is present, before you decide to try an other version. Did you miss RealBlackStuff's suggestion?

Make sure you have BIOS version 3.23.

[GACrabill]

Yes, confirmed. The CDROM is Ultra DMA Mode 2 but so is also ATA Disk Ultra DMA Mode 2.

So, I don't know how to get your msata/adapter to run at the correct 'Ultra DMA Mode 5' speed. Is this an adapter problem? ... an alignment problem? ... an msata SSD problem? ... ???????

Yikes !! ... this may actually be a problem with the Lycom/Addonics IDE-mSata adapter. This post by Johan may actually lead to "the answer" (http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 13#p738213), and especially his suggestion ("Suggestion: Read the thread KingSpec SSD on T23 ? and read especially the posts by JBUK very very thorough!") ... http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=112525.

Various quotes taken out-of-context from that thread :

JBUK (01/16/2014) : "My setup using a Plextor PX 128M5M in the Lycom ST-1737 msata to IDE adapter continues to work well in my T23 as a dual boot XP/Win7 setup. That is for one thing. The ATA speed runs at ATA2 not the ATA5 speed the T23 is capable of."

automobus (02/04/2014) : "I do not consider Addonics ADMS25IDE to be a sound purchase."

JBUK (02/23/2014) : "... here is where I am with this T23/SSD experiment. In the T23 using the Lycom ST-1737 adapter and Plextor PX 128M5M mSata SSD in the HD0 or Ultrabay positions it works fine using either XP or Win7. Albeit the ATA speed is limited to ATA/33 in either position. A conventional HDD runs at ATA/100. These speeds are verified by looking in Device Manager and running Crystal Disk Mark (CDM)."


That thread shows that at least one other person has also had their IDE speed reduced from 'DMA 5' to 'DMA 2' when using an mSata SSD in the Addonics/Lycom IDE-mSata adapter. One bad experience is curious ... two bad experiences may show an actual design problem.

You now have a new option #5 :
- buy a 'Minerva ST663FD9 mSATA to IDE 44pin converter adapter with 2.5 inch case' (this eBay auction is the cheapest option ... http://www.ebay.com/itm/Minerva-ST663FD ... 1c435831a9 ... same seller that I bought my adapter from, ships quick from USA.

Buying another adapter may be far easier than the other options. And, if the ST663FD9 adapter runs at 'DMA 5', you may be able to get a refund on the 'bad' Addonics adapter.

If you try the ST663FD9 adapter, be sure to read the first post in the following thread about getting it to 'fit' correctly ... http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=112081

[jwjensen356]

Thanks, all, for the assistance and suggestions. I'll have to ponder what to do next. In the meantime, here is an interesting bit that I stumbled on (I don't know of its relevance):
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/941311

John

[jwjensen356]

Sorry, I did miss Blackstuff's suggestion. I just checked the BIOS. It reads: "1.05 (1RET34WW) 2003-05-15". That is really ancient. But for reference, when I put the HD back in, I get a Properties reading of Ultra DMA Mode 5.

John

[jwjensen356]

GACrabill, my last update for awhile. I did order the Minerva ST663FD9 and should receive it soon. While I don't like throwing money around I figure 20 bucks should be an easy out. The discussion by JBUK was very convincing. It looks like his trials paralleled mine. I'll report back after I receive the new unit. John

[jwjensen356]

I'm baaack.

Here is an update. I did upgrade the BIOS to 3.23 and also the Embedded Controller to 3.04. And, no surprise, the drive was recognized as Ultra DMA Mode 5. You were correct. I should have done this before. OK, here I am with the new Minerva ST663FD9 getting me to a faster DMA (more about the ADDIONICS drive to follow). But I am in a bit of a rush right now but here are the figures:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
CrystalDiskMark 3.0.3 (C) 2007-2013 hiyohiyo
Crystal Dew World : http://crystalmark.info/
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
* MB/s = 1,000,000 byte/s [SATA/300 = 300,000,000 byte/s]

Sequential Read : 78.386 MB/s
Sequential Write : 74.568 MB/s
Random Read 512KB : 77.749 MB/s
Random Write 512KB : 74.453 MB/s
Random Read 4KB (QD=1) : 14.559 MB/s [ 3554.4 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=1) : 23.150 MB/s [ 5651.7 IOPS]
Random Read 4KB (QD=32) : 16.717 MB/s [ 4081.4 IOPS]
Random Write 4KB (QD=32) : 27.644 MB/s [ 6749.0 IOPS]

Test : 1000 MB [C: 59.1% (75.7/128.0 GB)] (x5)
Date : 2014/08/03 20:33:48
OS : Windows 7 Professional SP1 [6.1 Build 7601] (x86)

Not as good as what I have seen before, but better than several days before.

Regards.

[jwjensen356]

I used the Minerva caddy for my T40. Now that I know the drill I will also make use of the Addonics caddy on my R51e. I expect that upgrade will go smoothly since I have had this experience. Thanks again to all for your help.

John

[GACrabill]

I did upgrade the BIOS to 3.23 and also the Embedded Controller to 3.04. And, no surprise, the drive was recognized as Ultra DMA Mode 5. You were correct. I should have done this before. OK, here I am with the new Minerva ST663FD9 getting me to a faster DMA (more about the ADDIONICS drive to follow).

I'm a little confused, can you answer a few questions :
1. Did you update the BIOS *before* trying the Minerva adapter ?
2. Did you re-try the Addonics adapter *after* updating the BIOS ?
3. After updating the BIOS, did the Addonics adapter run at DMA5 ?

[jwjensen356]

1. Did you update the BIOS *before* trying the Minerva adapter?

No, I updated the BIOS after. The first try with the Minerva ran at DMA-2. After the BIOS update, it ran with DMA-5 (you were correct about needing the BIOS update to get beyond DMA-2).

2. Did you re-try the Addonics adapter *after* updating the BIOS ?
3. After updating the BIOS, did the Addonics adapter run at DMA5?

I haven't got that far. I will use the Addonics adapter in my R51e (I have to get another m500 first). Based I what I have learned, the first thing I will do is the BIOS update.

Thanks again for your help. Regards.

[Acheron]

Two years ago !!! A few Linux upgrades later the old T42 is still going well. Lately it has been spending its time as a music server.
Hope everybody's T42 is still finding a productive purpose in its old age.