Upgraded T41p ran happily for a year, now beginning to fail -- With T60 digression

[RealBlackStuff]

Pick your choice, any choice...

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Banias (standard-voltage, 130 nm)			
			
Model Number 	sSpec  	Frequency 	L2-Cache 
Pentium M 1.3 	SL6N8 	1300 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.3 	SL6N4 	1300 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.4 	SL6F5 	1400 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.4 	SL6F8 	1400 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.5 	SL6F6 	1500 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.5 	SL6F9 	1500 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.6 	SL6F7 	1600 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.6 	SL6FA 	1600 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.7 	SL6N9 	1700 MHz 	1 MB 
Pentium M 1.7 	SL6N5 	1700 MHz 	1 MB 
			
Dothan (standard-voltage, 90 nm)			

Model Number 	sSpec  	Frequency 	L2-Cache 
Pentium M 710 	SL7V5 	1400 MHz 	2 MB 
Pentium M 715 	SL7GL 	1500 MHz 	2 MB 
Pentium M 725 	SL7EG	 1600 MHz 	2 MB 
Pentium M 735 	SL7EP 	1700 MHz 	2 MB 
Pentium M 745 	SL7EN	 1800 MHz 	2 MB 
Pentium M 755 	SL7EM	 2000 MHz 	2 MB 
Pentium M 765 	SL7V3	 2100 MHz 	2 MB

[ajkula66]

If you want cool & quiet - PM735. If you prefer maximum performance - PM765.

Dothans run cooler under pressure than their Banias siblings, but with Fire GL T2 that's really a non-issue since the GPU always run hotter than the CPU.

[brooklynboy]

One additional wrinkle...The Wikipedia entry says:

"Dothan" (90 nm)
All models support: MMX, SSE, SSE2, Enhanced Intel SpeedStep Technology (EIST)
PAE, XD bit (an NX bit implementation): supported by C0 stepping
Die size: 87 mm²
Steppings: B0, B1, C0

Does that mean that the C0 stepping will support Win10, which Microsoft will distribute as a free upgrade to Win7? (I won't go near Win8.) Among the 400 MT/s Dothans, only the 715A, 725A, 735A, 745, and 745A have C0 or C1 steppings. If so, that makes a recent 745 the best choice.

[brooklynboy]

Go with the T60, you won't regret it. New keyboards and big SATA drives are cheap. T60s with SXGA and IPS are really nice and much faster and more reliable than T41s.

I just installed a new keyboard in the T60, and you're so right. Even with an old, slow HDD, it feels much faster than any incarnation of my T41, and the screen's a real pleasure.

FWIW, here's the Windows Experience Index for each, where "T41h" is the hybrid T41/T41p:

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                  T60  T41p  T41h-XDDM T41h-VGA
CPU               4.5   3.2   3.0       3.0
RAM               4.9   4.1   4.1       4.1
Graphics          4.6   3.7   1.9       1.0
Gaming Graphics   3.9   3.6   1.0       1.0
HDD               4.4   5.4   5.4       5.4

I think I'll buy it a new HDD and hope that the fan and the cover hinges don't fail.

[ajkula66]

Does that mean that the C0 stepping will support Win10, which Microsoft will distribute as a free upgrade to Win7?

PAE is actually NOT supported. I've verified this personally on both PM 735 and PM 765 where any Linux distro that requires PAE will bark at an attempt to boot the "live" disk, let alone proceed with the install.

People have jumped through hoops to install W8 and some of them have eventually succeeded, but it's not worth the time/effort in my opinion. What the case will be with W10 I don't have a slightest idea.

Stick with Windows 7 would be my piece of advice.

[brooklynboy]

PAE is actually NOT supported. I've verified this personally on both PM 735 and PM 765 where any Linux distro that requires PAE will bark at an attempt to boot the "live" disk, let alone proceed with the install.

People have jumped through hoops to install W8 and some of them have eventually succeeded, but it's not worth the time/effort in my opinion. What the case will be with W10 I don't have a slightest idea.

Stick with Windows 7 would be my piece of advice.

Your experience is not inconsistent with what I read in Wikipedia, since the 735 (non-"A") and 765 had no C0 stepping. Does that not still leave unanswered whether the C0 and later versions of the chips cited (715A, 725A, 735A, 745, and 745A) do in fact support PAE?

Actually, having spent a few hours with the T60, I may decide just to leave the T41 with its Banias CPU, degraded video, and Win7. It's working well enough now to use as a print server and occasional travel machine.

[ajkula66]

Does that not still leave unanswered whether the C0 and later versions of the chips cited (715A, 725A, 735A, 745, and 745A) do in fact support PAE?

No. And AFAIK the "A" variety will not work in a T4x.

Actually, having spent a few hours with the T60, I may decide just to leave the T41 with its Banias CPU, degraded video, and Win7. It's working well enough now to use as a print server and occasional travel machine.

A good decision.

[brooklynboy]

FWIW, here's the Windows Experience Index for each, where "T41h" is the hybrid T41/T41p:

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                  T60  T41p  T41h-XDDM T41h-VGA
CPU               4.5   3.2   3.0       3.0
RAM               4.9   4.1   4.1       4.1
Graphics          4.6   3.7   1.9       1.0
Gaming Graphics   3.9   3.6   1.0       1.0
HDD               4.4   5.4   5.4       5.4

I think I'll buy it a new HDD and hope that the fan and the cover hinges don't fail.

Just to close the loop: Installing a WD5000LPLX raised the HDD index from 4.4 to 5.9, making it the T60's strongest subsystem. The CPU and GPU are sufficiently powerful to support Office 2013 interface-animation effects, which needed to be disabled on the T41p.

[GomJabbar]

I have a top-of-the-line T42 with Windows 7 installed. Haven't used it much since I got my X220, but I dug it out again the other day. It would freeze and become completely unresponsive to the keyboard and TrackPoint. It was hard to pin down exactly what was causing the problem, but it would always happen after the laptop was on for a little while. Often I would hear a click and the screen would dim when the T42 froze.

I remembered that the last several times I used the T42, it would eventually freeze at some point. As Windows Event Viewer was reporting issues with the Embedded Controller, I began to wonder if the Lenovo Power Management Driver or else Power Manager could be the culprit (note that Power Manager was never released with the T42 in mind). I upgraded both the Lenovo Power Management Driver and Power Manager the latest versions, but the problem did not go away.

Finally I un-installed Power Manager (only) and have not seen the freezing problem since (although it's only been a few days). I read above in this thread that an older version of Power Manager (perhaps 3.25 or 3.30) may work. I'll check it out when I get back home and have time for it.