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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:02 pm 
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Hello,
I recently acquired a lot of t43s and t43ps,
I managed to successfully install windows 98 on both an unmodified t43 2668 46u and a t43 in which I have replaced the motherboard with one from a t43p (they both have the ati 300 and 1200 video cards respectively), using an IDE ssd.
One issue I came across however was that i was unable to install the video drivers which were provided here:
viewtopic.php?t=119509
from a clean install the video card is not detected, and when removing all video devices from the management menu and restarting the computer one of the video devices are automatically detected and a driver is installed automatically.
From this state the drivers also do not detect my video card.
If I then again remove the devices without restarting the screen turn black as would be expected without a video device.

I have tried for quite some time to install proper video drivers for the laptops, even going so far as to attempt somewhat newer versions of the catalyst suite, using unofficial updates, and win98toME, but with no success.
If someone would be able to provide me with a way to successfully install video drivers for this laptop on win 98 I would be eternally grateful.

If anyone also has any tips on installing other drivers such as audio drivers I would also be thankful, I have not looked into this as much, so any advice would be nice.

As a sidenote installing video drivers on both these laptops works well on windows 2000, and the video devices are detected on ubuntu, so there is nothing wrong with the video cards.


Last edited by OnionLand on Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:43 pm 
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Welcome to the Forum.

There never were any T43/T43p drivers for W98 (or earlier), only from W2K onwards.
To get them, click on the Drivers link at the top of this page.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:23 pm 
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RealBlackStuff wrote:
Welcome to the Forum.

There never were any T43/T43p drivers for W98 (or earlier), only from W2K onwards.
To get them, click on the Drivers link at the top of this page.


Thank you for the welcome,

I'm well aware of the fact that drivers were not released for laptops beyond the t42, I have heard successful stories about using t42 drivers on the t43. As far as I know there are also catalyst drivers with support for the mobility radeon x300, x600, and x700 mobile video cards that are compatible with win98.

Since this is the biggest forum for the t4x series I was hoping that someone with more experience attempting to make win98 work on the t43 would be here to share their experience.


Edit: Example of successfully installing the video drivers mentioned:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33287


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:40 pm 
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OnionLand wrote:
I have heard successful stories about using t42 drivers on the t43.


When it comes to video drivers, no. It simply doesn't work.

Quote:
As far as I know there are also catalyst drivers with support for the mobility radeon x300, x600, and x700 mobile video cards that are compatible with win98.


No wisdom to offer here.

Quote:
Since this is the biggest forum for the t4x series I was hoping that someone with more experience attempting to make win98 work on the t43 would be here to share their experience.

Edit: Example of successfully installing the video drivers mentioned:
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33287


Well...that was more than a decade ago, and the very fact that you haven't found much info about running 98 on 43 should tell you something...IMO, that is.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:59 pm 
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ajkula66 wrote:


I'm pretty sure the video drivers for the t42 are just compressed generic catalyst drivers, so I don't see a reason they shouldn't.
That being said I do agree with you, the fact most information on this topic is from more than a decade ago really is quite an issue. particularly because a lot of the sites referred to either don't exist, or have stopped carrying the needed drivers.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:23 pm 
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OnionLand wrote:

I'm pretty sure the video drivers for the t42 are just compressed generic catalyst drivers, so I don't see a reason they shouldn't.


I do. Because when you force a T42 driver (which is one and the same ranging from 7500 through 7800 through 9000/9600 to T2) onto a T43 it will not work within the Windows environment. Period. Been there and done that. The reverse also holds true.

Quote:
That being said I do agree with you, the fact most information on this topic is from more than a decade ago really is quite an issue. particularly because a lot of the sites referred to either don't exist, or have stopped carrying the needed drivers.


T43 is a reasonably capable machine even by today's standards if one sticks with operating systems that it was designed for. 98 is not one of them.

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:21 pm 
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ajkula66 wrote:

I do. Because when you force a T42 driver (which is one and the same ranging from 7500 through 7800 through 9000/9600 to T2) onto a T43 it will not work within the Windows environment. Period. Been there and done that. The reverse also holds true.


Thank you, that's actually quite helpful as it rules out one possible approach, I appreciate you sharing your experience.

ajkula66 wrote:
T43 is a reasonably capable machine even by today's standards if one sticks with operating systems that it was designed for. 98 is not one of them.


Whilst certainly true that it is not designed to run on win98 I don't see that as a reason to not use it as such if possible. I find it quite absurd to be dissuaded from using a machine for a particular purpose just because it was not intended by the manufacturers. It was also not intended to run on win7 or even further than that, but I don't see that dissuading people from doing so.
And quite frankly, despite the nice qualities of the t43, and though this is something you and many others in this forum may well disagree with me upon, if I my purpose was to have a machine with a later OS in mind I would have chosen a laptop with multiple cores and native sata support.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:47 pm 
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OnionLand wrote:

Whilst certainly true that it is not designed to run on win98 I don't see that as a reason to not use it as such if possible. I find it quite absurd to be dissuaded from using a machine for a particular purpose just because it was not intended by the manufacturers. It was also not intended to run on win7 or even further than that, but I don't see that dissuading people from doing so.


One big difference is that going forward (Vista/W7) is that every single driver works. Going back...not so much. Good luck with that Gigabit LAN, to begin with.

Quote:
And quite frankly, despite the nice qualities of the t43, and though this is something you and many others in this forum may well disagree with me upon, if I my purpose was to have a machine with a later OS in mind I would have chosen a laptop with multiple cores and native sata support.


You're obviously free to run whichever OS you deem fit. I run W2K on mine, on an Intel SLC SSD. Most average users would deem that to be a completely insane setup.

My point is that 98 will not be able to utilize many of the fine features that T43 offers, starting with 2GB RAM and so forth. I'd go for an older system (A2x/T2x, 600, 570...) if I wanted to run 98. But that's me.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:19 am 
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I fully know that using win98 will impose a fair amount of limits. I went into this fully aware that I may not be able to run features such as wireless or etcetera.
My current priority is to make video and sound work to a certain degree. I am also fairly certain I can get some other features such as special keys by using second party utilities such as I already have with usb support.
As for ram I will likely only be using the 1gb stick that came with the t43p unit, as the the 512mb imposed limit is fixed with the unofficial patch.

I do actually have an old 386 laptop, as well as a pII one, both passive matrix though sadly. The purpose is really to max out the old operating system in laptop form, an excercise which, given the recent popularity of older hardware I've found to be surprisingly rare, though there are of course other factors of the thinkpads which made me chose the t43 specifically.

edit: spelling


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:39 am 
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OnionLand wrote:
I fully know that using win98 will impose a fair amount of limits. I went into this fully aware that I may not be able to run features such as wireless or etcetera.


I'm curious: why 98 and on a T43? Why that particular combo?

Quote:
My current priority is to make video and sound work to a certain degree. I am also fairly certain I can get some other features such as special keys by using second party utilities such as I already have with usb support.
As for ram I will likely only be using the 1gb stick that came with the t43p unit, as the the 512mb imposed limit is fixed with the unofficial patch.


You *might* be better off with 2x512MB on a T43, although I'm not certain whether 98 will support the dual-channel aspect.

Quote:
I do actually have an old 386 laptop, as well as a pII one, both passive matrix though sadly. The purpose is really to max out the old operating system in laptop form, an excercise which, given the recent popularity of older hardware I've found to be surprisingly rare, though there are of course other factors of the thinkpads which made me chose the t43 specifically.


I wish you the best of luck with that noble quest. While the T43 range is something that I'm extremely familiar with, I can't say that I've touched a system running a 98 in more than a decade. My 701 units had 95 installed, but even that was easily five years ago.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:37 am 
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Alright, time for a progress update,

I have managed to install catalyst drivers by using a modified C7_21000.inf from the wme-8-03-98-3-050117a-021000e catalyst suite on my t43

By adding "ATI MOBILITY RADEON X300" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5460 under the [Mfg] section of the inf I have been able to use install them through device manager. This has enabled me to use true color options as well as to finally resize my screen. Although the specific resolution of my monitor is not supported sadly, meaning that it beats the crap out of generic and third party drivers.
One downside is that even with the modified inf the catalyst installer will still not recognize the device, meaning that it will not install the catalyst suite, meaning that I am unable to change any options. Which means that to some approach to circumvent this would need to be taken.
The performance has not been benchmarked either, so the actual gain may be limited.
Nevertheless this is a step forward.

Now the question is how to move on from here, if for starters if anyone knows the vendor and dev id for the firegl 3200/x600 as well as the which configuration it would be under, so that this could be replicated on the t43p motherboard that would be great. Now to install the catalyst suite still remains the big issue, but hey, progress.

edit: The mobility 3200 also appears to have the following ids "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3154&SUBSYS_05701014&REV_80" according to a quick search. If anyone would like to join me in my attempts to implement this that would be great.

edit2: the id does not seem to be correct for the the 3200 so ignore that.

edit3: Whilst I'm gathering my thoughts it appears that the mobility 3200 uses RV380/M24 GL, so if the above had been correct a similar implementation would be something like ["ATI MOBILITY FireGL V3200" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3154&SUBSYS_05701014].


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:27 am 
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According to the following, the PCI ID should be 1002:5460

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T43

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ATI_Mobility_Radeon_X300

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:50 pm 
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GomJabbar wrote:


Yepp, that's the vendor id and device id of the x300, which is why you add VEN_1002&DEV_5460.

Still haven't been able to get the FireGL V3200 of the 43p motherboard to work though.


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:02 pm 
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I appear to have lost one of my comments but here is the gist of it:

By editing the inf file i managed to get a resolution of 1400*1050, the win2k sound driver is compatible with win98 both using the t43 and t43p motherboard.

The device id of the v3200 IS 3154, but I can not get the system to pick the ati driver over the generic windows driver, however if I transfer the hard drive on which I have installed the ati driver for the x300 using the t43 the t43p is able to recognize the v3200, meaning that, though requiring a bit of an intricate installation process, the t43p is usable with win98 as long as you aren't too concerned with connecting to the internet at its current state.

Again not being able to install the catalyst suite is a drawback, meaning that we either need to force this suite on to the installation, or find an alternate program to manage the graphics card.

As a sidenote: Though I still have not benchmarked the systems I was able to start the relatively recent game deus ex without any issues, achieving a fluid framerate on directx for the few seconds i tried it, meaning that the card is fully usable.
It is still very possible that I am missing out on card specific optimizations however. Optimally I would like to perform a benchmark test between a win2k installation and the win98 one with my workaround to fully know the differences.

The current mission is to get the catalyst suite/an alternative program working, as well as to get the right set of architecture specific settings working driverwise.


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