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T42 shuts down when i move it
T41 with the same problem
I am currently experiencing the same problems described in this post. My t41 will power up just fine, but the screen goes totally dark after about a min. Also, if the laptop is moved, the screen has a tendency to go dark (by dark, I mean that I don’t see any image at all). How have you resolved your problem? I am also considering replacing the mobo through they are quite expensive; between 300 – 350.
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- Senior ThinkPadder
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Does R51 (1829-L7G model with ATI Radeon 9000) suffer from the same "BGA crack" design problem ? AFAIK it is supposed to have similar mobo as T42. Just to consinder whether to extend the warranty or not. Thanks.
Another question related to the problem. Does the "do not pickup your notebook by one hand" rule also apply when the lid is closed ? I can't imagine how to put it to/from the backpack not breaking such rule Considering the R weight I wouldn't try to pick it up by one hand when opened anyway.
Another question related to the problem. Does the "do not pickup your notebook by one hand" rule also apply when the lid is closed ? I can't imagine how to put it to/from the backpack not breaking such rule Considering the R weight I wouldn't try to pick it up by one hand when opened anyway.
I would avoid the backpack. I'm pretty sure that's what caused mine to go. There is a curve in your spine, most backpacks will bow, and the motherboard will be strained.Another question related to the problem. Does the "do not pickup your notebook by one hand" rule also apply when the lid is closed ? I can't imagine how to put it to/from the backpack not breaking such rule Considering the R weight I wouldn't try to pick it up by one hand when opened anyway.
Also if you stuff other items in the pack there is a tendency for the pack to barrel in order to accomodate the extra items.
My understanding of this problem is that it is less likely to occur in the newer models (T42+) with the longer fan that covers the GPU which is the case in models >= 64MB graphics memory.
Your R51 has the 32MB chip so yes I would extend the warranty or replace the mobo whichever is cheaper to do.
Frankie
T42
T42
IBM/Lenovo are never going to give out this detail; it would mean admitting that the other ones are bad and that there should be a recall and they can't afford to do that.Is possible to discover whether I have the mobo from "the new supplier"
I don't think you can ever be 100% sure that it won't happen. I don't blame the manufacturer for this, I actually see it as a design flaw. The laptop (T4x) simply flexes too much, that can't be good for any motherboard no matter how well it's manufactured.
But isn't the R51 more robust? Don't you have a thicker plastic base? It might never happen....
Just curious though how much does it cost to extend the warranty?
Frankie
T42
T42
Thanks for the great information
Thanks to all who supplied information, links, and stories about repairing the BGAs on these with a heat gun. My Dad had a T40 sitting in a drawer in his office, which I fixed in this way over two months ago. After the first round, the machine worked for a full day before freezing up again. I went a bit longer and a bit hotter (230C for about 30 seconds) that night, and have had no problems since then, in spite of typically abusive treatment of the machine. Hey, free ThinkPad for me! Thanks again to all!
Interestingly the Apple iBook also suffers from this same problem, and it also uses the Radeon Mobility 7500. I'm sure many many laptops used this chipset, but it's interesting nonetheless.frankie66 wrote:I don't think you can ever be 100% sure that it won't happen. I don't blame the manufacturer for this, I actually see it as a design flaw. The laptop (T4x) simply flexes too much, that can't be good for any motherboard no matter how well it's manufactured.Is possible to discover whether I have the mobo from "the new supplier"
i just found this one on youtube..
check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR8L3B3e ... ed&search=
check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vR8L3B3e ... ed&search=
Thanks everyone for the suggestions above. I've got the same problem with my R40, which has survived a good four years of abuse. I've gone and cut a piece of aluminium from an old Desktop heatsink, about 28mm x 22mm x 2-3mm - and used it as a shimmy between the gpu and the retaining case heatsink. I originally tried between the gpu heatsink and the keyboard but it didn't seem to put enough pressure on the gpu.
So far it's been working for a good 24 hours. If this fails I'll borrow a heatgun and follow the instructions in the youtube video in the previous post.
So far it's been working for a good 24 hours. If this fails I'll borrow a heatgun and follow the instructions in the youtube video in the previous post.
My R40 with the wedged aluminum plate is starting to misbehave again. Reducing the screen setting from 32 bits to 16 bits seems to help so it maybe related to heat buildup as well. Let's hope I don't have to go down to VGA resolution or less! Where's that old 486...
Just spoke to the technical folks at IBM Australia this morning about the issue. They said that there is an Engineering change Annoucement (ECA) out for the T40 series and there is a time limit in force. Which means, if your machine is out of warranty they may still fix it provided it is not too much out of warranty (whatever that means). What I object to with this policy is that those who are less gentle with their machines, and hence experienced the problem sooner may get the machine fixed for free but those who have been more gentle with their machines and experience the problem later won't. Apparently there is no ECA for the R40 series. For those in Australia who want to follow up this issue, check with IBM first whether they will fix it or not. Failing that send a complaint to the address I was given: lenovocc@au.lenovo.com So, we're not alone but we're out in the cold. If your machine is not out of warranty by much I'd chase up IBM/Lenovo pronto.
Cheers
Just spoke to the technical folks at IBM Australia this morning about the issue. They said that there is an Engineering change Annoucement (ECA) out for the T40 series and there is a time limit in force. Which means, if your machine is out of warranty they may still fix it provided it is not too much out of warranty (whatever that means). What I object to with this policy is that those who are less gentle with their machines, and hence experienced the problem sooner may get the machine fixed for free but those who have been more gentle with their machines and experience the problem later won't. Apparently there is no ECA for the R40 series. For those in Australia who want to follow up this issue, check with IBM first whether they will fix it or not. Failing that send a complaint to the address I was given: lenovocc@au.lenovo.com So, we're not alone but we're out in the cold. If your machine is not out of warranty by much I'd chase up IBM/Lenovo pronto.
Cheers
Hey there, just wanted to say thanks to all the discussion and tips in this thread. I have the same problem and i thought that it was the end for my t41p as i just had this shut down problem couple of days after my warranty ended. I once had my motherboard replaced during my warranty for the exact problem.
But the heat gun did the trick ;D now its a live again. Thanks everyone!
But the heat gun did the trick ;D now its a live again. Thanks everyone!
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- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:17 pm
- Location: Birmingham, UK.
Even though this topic is abit old i just thought I would let you guys know that I to have had the same problem TWICE! Yes you read correctly, TWICE.
Ive learnt now to take warranty out with such items, As my first Laptop (T40) completley went i sent it back to the retailer and got it replaced and now again i will either get it replaced or a new one given to me. I had just brought a new Keyboard and Hard-Drive for the machine aswell and was thinking about upgrading the RAM soon to 2GB. =(
Ive got to wait a week now for it to come back in the post. Missing it already!!
Im thinking about saving up now, (Take a while just left school and going to college) for either a more stable Thinkpad system as I really do like them or a Dell or if worse comes to worse an Apple.
Richard.
Ive learnt now to take warranty out with such items, As my first Laptop (T40) completley went i sent it back to the retailer and got it replaced and now again i will either get it replaced or a new one given to me. I had just brought a new Keyboard and Hard-Drive for the machine aswell and was thinking about upgrading the RAM soon to 2GB. =(
Ive got to wait a week now for it to come back in the post. Missing it already!!
Im thinking about saving up now, (Take a while just left school and going to college) for either a more stable Thinkpad system as I really do like them or a Dell or if worse comes to worse an Apple.
Richard.
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- Junior Member
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- Location: Waynesboro, MS
- Contact:
I tried the heat gun method on a T40 I received from ebay the end of last week. Symptoms are the system freezing up when moving or picking up the unit, which was usually accompanied with a flicker from the screen. I borrowed a Mac Tools heat gun with two settings-700 degrees and 925 degrees F.
After two sessions of pulling the laptop apart and heating the system board according to the videos, the system still freezes if moved in the wrong direction. It may be a little better but not much. Did I get the board hot enough? I wasn't sure if I did the first time, but I would say definitely yes after the second run. I am personally tired of dismantling the system to try it again, and since the seller misrepresented it on ebay he has agreed to take it back for a full refund. Even though I have a new T60p and an X61 tablet, I still love the old T4x series and I don't want to give it up! Heck, this one even has completely working USB 2.0!
Maybe I will just try the Post-It note trick and see what happens...
After two sessions of pulling the laptop apart and heating the system board according to the videos, the system still freezes if moved in the wrong direction. It may be a little better but not much. Did I get the board hot enough? I wasn't sure if I did the first time, but I would say definitely yes after the second run. I am personally tired of dismantling the system to try it again, and since the seller misrepresented it on ebay he has agreed to take it back for a full refund. Even though I have a new T60p and an X61 tablet, I still love the old T4x series and I don't want to give it up! Heck, this one even has completely working USB 2.0!
Maybe I will just try the Post-It note trick and see what happens...
I lost count...
I got it fixed using the heat gun on my R40! Thank you guys for this awesome thread, more info in this topic
ThinkPad R40 model 2681 owner...
Just came upon this thread after comments in another thread. GPU problem sounds exactly the problem on my daughter's T41. Fortunately it still has a couple more months warranty, so I sent it back to IBM and had it back in a week.
Thanks to all those who posted the comments; they explain a lot -including getting my daughter to stop putting the laptop in her back pack at Uni. I hope that I do not have the same problem with my T43, but at least now I have ideas as to a fix.
Thanks to all those who posted the comments; they explain a lot -including getting my daughter to stop putting the laptop in her back pack at Uni. I hope that I do not have the same problem with my T43, but at least now I have ideas as to a fix.
IBM ThinkPad T43-2668-F5G,
T41p-2373-GEG & a T61-6466-9YG
T41p-2373-GEG & a T61-6466-9YG
Not here, you can't. Take that offline.guxbo wrote:Can we initiate a lawsuit on this issue.
Jane
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
2015 X1 Carbon, ThinkPad Slate, T410s, X301, X300, X200 Tablet, T60p, HP TouchPad, iPad Air 2, iPhone 5S, IdeaTab A2107A, Yoga 3 Pro
Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Facebook group
I'm on Twitter
I do NOT respond to PM or e-mail requests for personal tech support.
I'm so happy right now. For more than a year I've had problems with the GPU on my T40. I always knew it was the GPU but after taking apart my system a dozen times i could never discover the root cause besides applying pressure on the GPU itself. I looked for cracked or cold solders everywhere on the board. Little did i know that the actual problem point is not visible.
I've made the mistake of doing every thinkpad no-no, like carrying it in my backpack or holding it with one hand. I haven't tried the heat gun fix, only because i don't have one. I tried the post-it fix, but when that didnt work i tried a piece of cork, with post-it paper on the bottom to hopefully prevent the cork from melting on top of the GPU.
So far so good. It finally boots with no added pressure. And i was about to buy a new system board off of ebay. Thanks for the youtube links. That is the best source for how to do the heat gun fix right.
I've made the mistake of doing every thinkpad no-no, like carrying it in my backpack or holding it with one hand. I haven't tried the heat gun fix, only because i don't have one. I tried the post-it fix, but when that didnt work i tried a piece of cork, with post-it paper on the bottom to hopefully prevent the cork from melting on top of the GPU.
So far so good. It finally boots with no added pressure. And i was about to buy a new system board off of ebay. Thanks for the youtube links. That is the best source for how to do the heat gun fix right.
I have started having this problems a month or so ago.
It is now unbearable.
Does anyone else get graphical errors like colorful lines and "cloud" like shapes form instead of just black? I get that then black or sometimes just black.
I put pressure on the gpu and it does start.
I just found a heatsink that will fit in there im going to try putting it on.
It is now unbearable.
Does anyone else get graphical errors like colorful lines and "cloud" like shapes form instead of just black? I get that then black or sometimes just black.
I put pressure on the gpu and it does start.
I just found a heatsink that will fit in there im going to try putting it on.
I have installed this heatsink and everything seems to work, its about 2 cm's in height so its a little small, but seems to be putting enough pressure on it. And my gpu temp is lower
It seems like this is a viable, albeit temporary, solution.
edit: Isn't it strong enough in a laptop bag or laptop backpack? It shouldnt flex to much in there.
It seems like this is a viable, albeit temporary, solution.
edit: Isn't it strong enough in a laptop bag or laptop backpack? It shouldnt flex to much in there.
I'm using linux. My T40 freezes if I move it, but if its stable there is no problem with gfx.
If I do move it, the laptop totally freezes: screen does not go black, nor does the T40 reboot. Theres just the displayed image and the laptop does not respond to anything expect forced shutdown. Sometimes I get some white stripes on the screen but I haven't found them crusial and they do not occur after moving & freezing
Do you guys think this might be because of the loose gpu?
Just to mention I think that my laptop is more stable ie. does not freeze so soon if the boot is a cold-boot, meaning that the laptop has been shutdown for a while before bootin.
I've tried to put aluminium between the keyboard and the 7500 chip, but it didnt work. How tight you guys did tighten the setup?
Ive access to a heat gun so I'm likely to tru this reflowing, but am also a little worried about the damage those temperatures can make. Has anyone really managed to get any damage or is the success percent 100% for heat gunning?
Im sorry for the long post, but I had a lot to say.
If I do move it, the laptop totally freezes: screen does not go black, nor does the T40 reboot. Theres just the displayed image and the laptop does not respond to anything expect forced shutdown. Sometimes I get some white stripes on the screen but I haven't found them crusial and they do not occur after moving & freezing
Do you guys think this might be because of the loose gpu?
Just to mention I think that my laptop is more stable ie. does not freeze so soon if the boot is a cold-boot, meaning that the laptop has been shutdown for a while before bootin.
I've tried to put aluminium between the keyboard and the 7500 chip, but it didnt work. How tight you guys did tighten the setup?
Ive access to a heat gun so I'm likely to tru this reflowing, but am also a little worried about the damage those temperatures can make. Has anyone really managed to get any damage or is the success percent 100% for heat gunning?
Im sorry for the long post, but I had a lot to say.
Hi, I'm new here and first I would like to thank you for this great thread. It hepled me find my problem.
I live in Slovenia (Europe) and I bought my T42 in Germany in the begining of 2005. But because I haven't sent my registration card back to IBM when I bought it, the international warranty on the web says that my thinkpad is out of warranty. The guy in the service center said that if you don't send the registration to IBM they use the date when computer was shipped from the factory. So no warranty for me except if I go to Germany and try my luck there. But that is too complicated (and too far). And because I have access to the professional reflow machine, I will try and fix my motherboard myself.
So... are there any special things that I should be aware of?
I already removed the motherboard from the laptop last week and I saw there is a lot of plastic protection pads, I guess that those should be removed before I put my board in the oven. Anything else? Do you have any idea what temperature profile shold I use?
Are the elements on the bottom side of the board glued to the board? I'm affraid that something could fall off during the reflow process.
And the thing that scares me the most. Is there any way that high temperature can erase flash memory? The BIOS is written in flash chip, and this chip is soldered to the board, so I cant remove it during the reflow process.
I live in Slovenia (Europe) and I bought my T42 in Germany in the begining of 2005. But because I haven't sent my registration card back to IBM when I bought it, the international warranty on the web says that my thinkpad is out of warranty. The guy in the service center said that if you don't send the registration to IBM they use the date when computer was shipped from the factory. So no warranty for me except if I go to Germany and try my luck there. But that is too complicated (and too far). And because I have access to the professional reflow machine, I will try and fix my motherboard myself.
So... are there any special things that I should be aware of?
I already removed the motherboard from the laptop last week and I saw there is a lot of plastic protection pads, I guess that those should be removed before I put my board in the oven. Anything else? Do you have any idea what temperature profile shold I use?
Are the elements on the bottom side of the board glued to the board? I'm affraid that something could fall off during the reflow process.
And the thing that scares me the most. Is there any way that high temperature can erase flash memory? The BIOS is written in flash chip, and this chip is soldered to the board, so I cant remove it during the reflow process.
T42, 14" SXGA+
Edge 11, K325
Edge 11, K325
@ strawf
Another linux man, nice one
I suffered the same until I read this thread. Since I haven't got access to a heat gun it was a case of finding out more about the problem. It turned out that it was the top left hand corner of my cpu that needed sticking down.
I cut a match to the required length (6mm, I think) and wrapped it with enough aluminium foil that it would stand on the corner of the cpu on its own without falling over. I then wound some wire round the foil so that it wouln't come lose.
The top I reformed so that it would fit between the keyboard plug and connector cable.
And then I put the keyboard back in place, screwed it tight and - hey presto, Bob's your uncle! It really appears to be as good as new!
Toad
Another linux man, nice one
I suffered the same until I read this thread. Since I haven't got access to a heat gun it was a case of finding out more about the problem. It turned out that it was the top left hand corner of my cpu that needed sticking down.
I cut a match to the required length (6mm, I think) and wrapped it with enough aluminium foil that it would stand on the corner of the cpu on its own without falling over. I then wound some wire round the foil so that it wouln't come lose.
The top I reformed so that it would fit between the keyboard plug and connector cable.
And then I put the keyboard back in place, screwed it tight and - hey presto, Bob's your uncle! It really appears to be as good as new!
Toad
bog standard T430s on Debian testing
Add a big me too for this problem. my T41 went blank last week. In its dock, it is stable for the most part. Try to use it portable or jostle it in the dock too much and poof.
Warranty expired 7/30/07. How convenient. I still filed a ESC and will see if IBM is willing to fix it, I love this little laptop gonna miss the darn thing.
Warranty expired 7/30/07. How convenient. I still filed a ESC and will see if IBM is willing to fix it, I love this little laptop gonna miss the darn thing.
Oh well they left me a VM $575 for repair. Not even close to worth it, not when you can buy a comparable laptop cheaper, I may miss this thing but not that much.
It's a shame these seem to have a defect in their design and people will be forced to dump them granted I don't expect a laptop to last forever, but for solder joints to fail, thats a bit extreme for me to accept as normal wear and tear.
I guess in the future I will do my best to steer away from BGA based assembly on anything mobile where flex may be an issue.
It's a shame these seem to have a defect in their design and people will be forced to dump them granted I don't expect a laptop to last forever, but for solder joints to fail, thats a bit extreme for me to accept as normal wear and tear.
I guess in the future I will do my best to steer away from BGA based assembly on anything mobile where flex may be an issue.
OK, I tried to fix my GPU problem, but it looks like I've failed.
Because I was not sure how the components on the bottom side of the PCB will handle in the reflow oven I decided to try the "heat gun" method first. I followed the video on youtube to do it. But after I was done heating the motherboard I've noticed that the board bent a bit in the PCMCIA corner. It was a few milimeters off the ground when I put it back it the case. But then I think I've made an terrible mistake. I forgot to put back one of the protective PVC foils on the back of the motherboard (small square black one on the back side near the northbridge). And when I tried to power the laptop on, all I got was a short blink on the battery LED. It blinks only the first time you try to power it on, after that you can press power button but nothing happens. But if you remove the battery and/or power cord and reatach it again you get that blink on the LED again...
Afther the failed attemp I've decided to try the reflow oven... in the name of science. We have set the temperature profiles at 190C for preheat, 170C for flux activation and 250C for reflow. The time for the whole process was set to about 4 minutes.
The reflow in the oven went OK. Nothing fell off from the bottom of the board, and the bent PCB straightened itself up again. But it is still not working.
So to sum the things up... You can use reflow oven... nothing will fall off. And double check if you put all things back to where they should be...
A lesson learned.
BTW does anyone have any idea where to get new motherboard? Need one with R9600 graphics...
Because I was not sure how the components on the bottom side of the PCB will handle in the reflow oven I decided to try the "heat gun" method first. I followed the video on youtube to do it. But after I was done heating the motherboard I've noticed that the board bent a bit in the PCMCIA corner. It was a few milimeters off the ground when I put it back it the case. But then I think I've made an terrible mistake. I forgot to put back one of the protective PVC foils on the back of the motherboard (small square black one on the back side near the northbridge). And when I tried to power the laptop on, all I got was a short blink on the battery LED. It blinks only the first time you try to power it on, after that you can press power button but nothing happens. But if you remove the battery and/or power cord and reatach it again you get that blink on the LED again...
Afther the failed attemp I've decided to try the reflow oven... in the name of science. We have set the temperature profiles at 190C for preheat, 170C for flux activation and 250C for reflow. The time for the whole process was set to about 4 minutes.
The reflow in the oven went OK. Nothing fell off from the bottom of the board, and the bent PCB straightened itself up again. But it is still not working.
So to sum the things up... You can use reflow oven... nothing will fall off. And double check if you put all things back to where they should be...
A lesson learned.
BTW does anyone have any idea where to get new motherboard? Need one with R9600 graphics...
T42, 14" SXGA+
Edge 11, K325
Edge 11, K325
Warranty
I hate to add another Me Too to a 6 page thread, so I will attempt to draw out some new information:
Does anyone know the warranty status of replacement planars? I found from one source (perhaps a thread on an ibm design blog...) that someone thought it had a renewed warranty ie 2yrs, 3yrs, etc.
The reason I ask is that despite careful non-flexing treatment, I got my first ATI segfault (but not bluescreen) today, and the cursor has been stalling occasionally (another symptom I experienced before blackscreen). I have another year of warranty, but it would be totally irresponsible for IBM to have set me up with a refurbed or old-design planar. [I have to say, one good thing about it failing after you all guys' is that I got a hardware repair after 2 minutes on the phone, and had a 24hr turnaround once the DHL box arrived]
Also, would appreciate it if someone could clear up for me what the "long fan" is. Is this an aftermarket add-on, or does it come stock with some (all?) models? I have noticed that my repaired laptop is running hotter than it used to, and that the fan does not seem to spin up as much (I have resorted to defaulting 1/3x multiplier when AC).
Thanks
Does anyone know the warranty status of replacement planars? I found from one source (perhaps a thread on an ibm design blog...) that someone thought it had a renewed warranty ie 2yrs, 3yrs, etc.
The reason I ask is that despite careful non-flexing treatment, I got my first ATI segfault (but not bluescreen) today, and the cursor has been stalling occasionally (another symptom I experienced before blackscreen). I have another year of warranty, but it would be totally irresponsible for IBM to have set me up with a refurbed or old-design planar. [I have to say, one good thing about it failing after you all guys' is that I got a hardware repair after 2 minutes on the phone, and had a 24hr turnaround once the DHL box arrived]
Also, would appreciate it if someone could clear up for me what the "long fan" is. Is this an aftermarket add-on, or does it come stock with some (all?) models? I have noticed that my repaired laptop is running hotter than it used to, and that the fan does not seem to spin up as much (I have resorted to defaulting 1/3x multiplier when AC).
Thanks
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