Why exactly are all 2012 ThinkPads considered non-ThinkPad Lenovo hardware while X100 or Slate aren't?

Not that I think that's bad (maybe apart from the fact that it adds confusion to the already confusingly named sub-forums) but I'd like to know the motives.

The motives is that some administrators share the sentiments of some of the users and are very mad at the island keyboards. Since it seems to be impossible for any of us to actually influence Lenovo, this is the only way to get at least a little bit of "revenge".

Thanks, I thought so.

I wouldn't express my disappointment/anger in such a way but then it's not my forum.

Classifying the 2012 ThinkPads in the non-Thinkpad category totally makes sense to me, and I think that all the x1xxe should also be put in the same category since they sport chiclets and cheap plastics.

MY experience with an E420 wasn't bad. I could get used to the keyboard pretty quickly, but just didn't like it. I don't like the machine not having a latch for the LCD cover. The E420 didn't have a number of features I like on my T series (like ultrabay, dock utilization, etc.) but that's to be expected due to the price difference.

However, if the old style keyboard still physically fits, I don't see what the big deal would be to offer the consumer the choice. It's not like it's a hill of beans difference from assembly perspective - other than having two parts to source / inventory. Then if you saw that the vast majority chose the island style, simply don't offer the choice in the future.

+ 1 and then some...

It's kind of silly that we got thinkpads placed under lenovo non-thinkpad category. I can understand why people are upset about the keyboard, especially on bigger thinkpads. Perhaps we could rename lenovo non-thinkpads secion to lenovo thinkpads. That would make more sense.

Well, not really IMO since many of Lenovo-branded ThinkPads were *proper* ThinkPads...which is not the term I'd use to describe the new *30 palette...

Then they should also draw the line a bit sharper and take the name "Thinkpad" out of that section altogether!
I.e. change "Thinkpad Edge" into "Lenovo Edge", change "ThinkPad T430/T530 Series" into "Lenovo T430/T530 Series" and so on.
That would make a heck of a lot more sense (and the [Sub]Forum naming much clearer)!

I didn't provide any input in reference to this decision making previously. However, I could see the point when there were only a couple of models that didn't stack up to the classic ThinkPad design. But now I think this doesn't seem like a good strategy going forward.

Perhaps there should be:
ThinkPads with classic keyboards (or Classic ThinkPads)
ThinkPads with non-classic keyboards (or Non-Classic ThinkPads)
Other Lenovo Laptops, Slates, and Hardware

Or some variation of the above.

My 2 cents worth...

Or keep it simple and make a "Hardware discussions" forum for all machines that we want to discuss here. Simple is good.

The keyboard won't matter anyway when BIOS-mods arrive...

When I can put a proper 7-row keyboard in one of the *30 models, I'll consider moving or renaming the section. Until then...

Good deal, keep up the good fight.

I'll post my comments on whether I think putting the island keyboard machines in this section makes sense after I get my hands on my X230T that I ordered two days ago. I will really like the backlighting on the island keyboard. The convertible tablet didn't support the ThinkLight. Also, after I read the blog on the keyboards at blog.Lenovo.com I realized I have NEVER used the funny back and forward keys on to the left and right of the arrow up keys on my X201T. I've rarely used the three keys just to the left of the on off switch.

I'm really hoping the island keyboard is less prone to crumbs getting stuck under the keys. I've become expert and putting in new keyboards in the R50/51 series and the T520 series and I wouldn't mind a break from that.

I will say that putting the X230 down in the banned group meant that I didn't find good discussions about the X230 series for a couple months while I was making my decision. I kept checking the X2xx/X3xx forum thinking that the X230 discussions would be there. Overall the ban just made thinkpads.com less valuable for me, and I've been coming here for more than five years.

That was my concern. In my opinion, showing the disappointment with the new keyboards by separating all discussions about the new machines is not the right way to do it. It creates confusion.

I agree with you yak. Then again it's not the first time confusion is created by the grouping of models in the forums, so I don't really care anymore. Particularly since I just read all threads through "view new posts".

The right way to show disappointment with the new keyboards is simply to stop buying new Thinkpads, as long as they sport these keyboards, in order to hurt Lenovo's business and show them that despite what their management might think, users will not take unlimited crap. I hope that this is the case and this is what happens in the end, but that may be some very wishful thinking on my part.

I think it is very childish.

Thinkpads are thinkpads. Its just a brand owned by Lenovo, and previously owned by IBM. They may have options we don't like. But it has happened in every model of thinkpad history:

- Thinkpad being purchased by Lenovo
- First panoramic displays
- 16:9 displays
- IBM brand out
- New models by Lenovo
- AMD processor models
- Non serviceable battery
- No dock connector

etc...

At first I saluted the admins for putting unconventional Thinkpads in the "non-Thinkpads" section, but that's because I thought that was just a temporary protest. But now that it has been well over a year (or even two years?), I think this protest has lasted too long. It creates confusion for many people and makes this forum less helpful. At the very least, please consider changing the name of this subforum to something like "Thinkpads with non-traditional features".

im glad admins got around renaming the sections into something more intuitive. and while I share your disdain to a lot of changes that lenovo did, I think that naming a section "non-thinkpad" and placing thinkpads underneath it would only confuse newcomers.

I'm also glad that the sections were renamed to something slightly more sensible, but I still disagree with the decision overall (I agree that it will likely only serve to confuse forum visitors). I also fail to see how the ThinkPad Tablet (Android slate) is "classic" ThinkPad hardware