T60/p QXGA questions

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bhtooefr · #1 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri May 15, 2009 2:51 am

I've been reading on the QXGA swaps into the T60/p models, and this is my understanding of what's going on:

The panel's EDID information is being reflashed to contain a valid EDID, using a modified cable from any ThinkPad with a 30-pin LCD cable (such as, oh, my old dead R51e with a 14.1" XGA screen?)
The T60/p's stock LCD cable, inverter, and hinges are used, although the ThinkLight is lost. (I've got an X61t now, so I'm used to having no ThinkLight.)
The swap will work on any T60 or R60 model, even with integrated graphics (basing this on a Chinese site mentioning an R60e with the swap done to it, but I want discrete in a T60 chassis anyway if I go this route, so it's a moot point.)

Am I correct on that?

Any pitfalls to watch out for that I've missed?

Any reasons not to do it? Please don't say "the pixel density is too high" - I have an SXGA+ X61t, want more, and I know full well what I'm getting into here, with the pixel density.

jketzetera · #2 Post by **jketzetera** » Fri May 15, 2009 4:05 am

As it happens, my friend upgraded his modified T61p UXGA (T61p motherboard in T60p 15" chassis) to a QXGA panel just this week and I was there to witness the entire operation (I am considering to do it myself). I was very surprised by how easy the swap was done.

The panel was bought pre-programmed on eBay

http://cgi.ebay.com/T60-T60p-15-QXGA-IP ... tops_Nov05

The panel was a new IDTECH IAQX10N in perfect condition. The seller included an instruction on how to swap in the new panel. The upgrade was performed without removing the lcd assembly from the notebook and all original components, connectors and cables were used from within his T60p/T61p. Following the sellers instructions, even the Thinklight survived the procedure.

The "pitfalls" encountered were:

1. Besides the screws, the bottom part of the LCD bezel was fastened to the actual UXGA panel using double sided tape which was not visible from the outside nor did we know that it was the case. This led to some unnecessary bending of the old panel when we tried to remove the bezel by force, until we realized our error and used a small screwdriver to separate the tape from the bezel.

2. When reassembling the panel my friend managed to route one of the WAN-cables partially behind the panel. This led to a misalignment and one of the screw holes in the panel would not line up with the screw holes in the lcd frame. This forced us to take out the panel and reroute the cable properly so that we could reassemble everything properly (you definitely do not want a misaligned screen and/or lcd assembly that might result in your screen becoming damaged or scratched by the keyboard etc.).

I estimate that the total time to do the swap was approx 45 minutes. But we were rookies taking our time as we did not want to break anything. My estimate is that now when I know how it is done, it would take me less than 20 minutes to do the swap.

On first boot, the panel started up in some strange resolution (something like 2048 x 1280). However, after enabling unsupported display modes in the graphics adapter properties, QXGA became available as a resolution setting in Windows XP. After that everything worked without problems.

#3 Post by **ZaZ** » Fri May 15, 2009 5:05 am

Though I am happy with my SXGA+ IPS, I wonder if this works in a R60?

Troels · #4 Post by **Troels** » Fri May 15, 2009 1:03 pm

bhtooefr wrote:The panel's EDID information is being reflashed to contain a valid EDID, using a modified cable from any ThinkPad with a 30-pin LCD cable (such as, oh, my old dead R51e with a 14.1" XGA screen?)

That will do - the cable is used because there's some space on it near the LCD cable connector where you can solder on the four wires you'll need to re-program the EEPROM; SCL, SDA, Gnd and Vcc. I.e. like this:
http://users.cybercity.dk/~dsl35822/edidconnection.jpg

The wires goes to a parallel-i2c converter, http://www.lancos.com/e2p/easyI2Cbus.gif. The "24Cxx" is the EEPROM inside the LCD. Then you can use PonyProg to re-program the eeprom using the parallel port.

The T60/p's stock LCD cable, inverter, and hinges are used, although the ThinkLight is lost. (I've got an X61t now, so I'm used to having no ThinkLight.)

Like jketzetera stated, you won't lose ThinkLight... With some fiddling the "extension" of the cable going to the ThinkLight PCB/LED holder it just fits.

The swap will work on any T60 or R60 model, even with integrated graphics (basing this on a Chinese site mentioning an R60e with the swap done to it, but I want discrete in a T60 chassis anyway if I go this route, so it's a moot point.)

Am I correct on that?

Yes

Any pitfalls to watch out for that I've missed?
Any reasons not to do it? Please don't say "the pixel density is too high" - I have an SXGA+ X61t, want more, and I know full well what I'm getting into here, with the pixel density.

[/quote]
Pitfalls, except that the file you might have found on the Chinese forums which "supposedly" works, doesn't at all - it's an empty shell more or less - still no manufacturer specified string inside, so i'm not sure what they did to ever make that work. I got no answers myself when i asked on the 51nb forum (in their english forum, which isn't that visited).
Reasons: A little bit higher power consumption - it is 42 Hz, which may mean that you may see it flicker just a slightly bit in comparison to the flickerless 60 Hz conventional displays.

jketzetera's advice on the pre-programmed display is also a good one - makes it very easy

bhtooefr · #5 Post by **bhtooefr** » Fri May 15, 2009 1:58 pm

For $251, I can program my own display, thanks.

(I found a source of new IAQX10Ns for $148 shipped.)

I was aware of the Chinese file being wrong, and have already found the relevant thread on here. (Link for anyone that stumbles on this thread and is looking for the right info: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 08#p446108)

42 Hz shouldn't be a problem for me - I don't game, and my X61t is only 50 Hz. And, this is an LCD we're talking about, not a CRT. As for power consumption, I'm usually only unplugged for short bursts, and I'm never far from an outlet. If I really need more power, I can get a 9-cell. (Although, I'm used to an 8-cell on this X61t...)

Looks like this swap isn't gonna be too hard, then. Now to find a 15" discrete graphics T60/p that has a shattered LCD...

jketzetera · #6 Post by **jketzetera** » Fri May 15, 2009 4:23 pm

This is very interesting as I myself am contemplating to do the upgrade.

Would I be able to do the programming with this device?

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/PonyProg-Serial- ... ltDomain_0

Also, what info would i program into the panel?

Edit ... I found lots of different Thinkpad LCD cables on eBay. How do I know which one will fit the IDTECH panel (for soldering/reprogramming purposes)?

mani99 · #7 Post by **mani99** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:25 pm

I'll be flashing and installing a QXGA display in my 15" T60 in a few days with a cable I borrowed from Troels over a month ago. In fact, I was planning to do it over two weeks ago, but the shipping company (Hermes PrivatPaketService, avoid them!!) returned my panel to the sender without any explanation two days ago.

It was resent yesterday with express delivery so I should have it early next week. I'll take pictures of the flashing and installation process and upload them. As I bought a new lid for my T60 as well, I'll take the whole case apart.

jketzetera · #8 Post by **jketzetera** » Fri May 15, 2009 8:58 pm

That would be great (Det vore toppen)!

Especially the reprogramming part. If that is easy I might go for this mod myself.

bhtooefr · #9 Post by **bhtooefr** » Tue May 19, 2009 2:33 pm

Ugh, I SUCK at soldering, have a crap soldering iron, and can't really get this cable made without damaging stuff... I'll have the panel tomorrow, anyone got a programming cable that they've got ready to go that I could borrow? I'm in 43055.

bhtooefr · #10 Post by **bhtooefr** » Tue May 19, 2009 6:20 pm

FWIW, I did get the Easy I2C side of the circuit done, so it'd just be the part that connects to the LCD that I need. If push really comes to shove, I could try inserting the wires straight from the breadboard, into the connector on the LCD, but that just seems too wrong. (I may well try it, though, if I can keep them from moving around too much.)

bhtooefr · #11 Post by **bhtooefr** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:23 pm

Here's the deal. I got someone to make the cable for me. But, I can't get this programmer to even begin to work. It's just unhelpfully giving me hardware error, and asking me if my board's properly connected.

Oh, and I'm using the UltraBase on an X61 Tablet for this, not a USB to parallel converter, I know better than that.

Not including the circled part, this is the circuit I tried: http://bhtooefr.ath.cx/images/easyi2c.png

I've also tried putting +5V in where I've marked +3.3V, but still putting +3.3V in the LCD. No go.

If there's anyone else who's successfully done this and still has the programmer, I'll ship the whole panel to you to do this, I'm sick of dealing with this thing. I just want it to WORK. I'm not about fighting with something for hours to get it to work, I'm about getting something that works.

Troels · #12 Post by **Troels** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:36 pm

Hmm, what do you use to give it exactly 3.3V or 5V?

When i made mine i forgot to pull pin 23-24-25 to ground, resulting in that error. You also properly grounded both emitters of the transistors?
Bah.. you probably have already troubleshooted the board for some time though..

bhtooefr · #13 Post by **bhtooefr** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:20 pm

I tried doing exactly what the schematic said. And, I'm using an Arduino because I had one handy, and only to provide power.

Troels · #14 Post by **Troels** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:50 pm

Ok - nice platform by the way... troubleshooting these kinds of things through the net is really hard - but maybe instead of you shipping the panel (kindda fragile) someone might have a working easyI2c board that they could ship you.
If you still want to troubleshoot the easyi2c board, could you take some macro shots of the back side and front of the "PCB" and post them somewhere?

bhtooefr · #15 Post by **bhtooefr** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 3:01 pm

It's not a board, I did it on a breadboard. I can get photos of it later...

But, maybe if someone has a working interface, that'd do, too.

mani99 · #16 Post by **mani99** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 6:22 pm

Well, I finally got my QXGA panel, but there was a crack in the lower left corner, and the backlight is broken.

I did however flash the panel with the cable I borrowed from Troels, and using a mobile phone camera flash I was able to confirm that the panel did work at full resolution.

I took some screenshots and saved both the original and modified hex-file along with some instructions. I'll upload them soon.

Troels: Do you want me to send the cable back to you? I can't get a new panel anytime soon as I won't be home during the summer.

bhtooefr · #17 Post by **bhtooefr** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 7:25 pm

Well, good to know that you were able to get the flasher to work, at least...

I've got an untested hex file here on this machine, taken from the EDID bytes that catdog posted last August.

Anyway, shipping might be a touch high, but it'll be a LOT cheaper than RMAing this panel and getting the $400 panel... Troels and mani, would you be opposed to the cable taking a detour to the US? I'd basically flash the panel the day I'd get it, and send it back out the next day.

Troels · #18 Post by **Troels** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:02 pm

mani99 wrote:Well, I finally got my QXGA panel, but there was a crack in the lower left corner, and the backlight is broken.
...

Ouch!
Sorry to hear that. At least you got it working. Hope the person you bought that screen from will take it back. Did it look like shipping damage?

Hmm about the cable... No rush, but ok "this summer" sounds like a long time

Bhtooefr, No problem for me, except - what is going to happen with regards to import duties and such? I know there are none, but who knows if they charge their usual handling fees just for checking out the package? I'll likely kick the post man in his **** if he turns up at my doorstep with a package featuring import handling fees of the usual $30.

But i guess it could be sent having a value of $0.. or maybe the content doesn't need to be declared.

Other than that it is up for Mani to decide. I'll return again tomorrow (3 AM now)

bhtooefr · #19 Post by **bhtooefr** » Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:16 pm

To me, there won't be any duties even if it's claimed at actual value (as long as that value is below some absurdly high value that could buy a W700ds, IIRC. I've bought things worth more than that cable internationally, and not had to pay duties.)

Sending it back, it'd probably be best for me to declare it as a gift... Annoying that they charge you for if they inspect the package, though.

Alternately, how much would you want for me to just outright buy the cable from you, if you're willing to go that route?

mani99 · #20 Post by **mani99** » Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:28 am

Troels wrote: Sorry to hear that. At least you got it working. Hope the person you bought that screen from will take it back. Did it look like shipping damage?

The panel was clearly damaged during shipping, there were several holes and rips on the box. The shipping company still won't take responsibility, even though there was a big red "FRAGILE, handle with care" sticker on every side. While it shouldn't have been damaged, there could have been better protection on the edges, and I really hope the seller accepts at least a partial refund.

You said earlier that you had some extra QXGA panels with some marks on them, would you be interested in selling one of them to me? I just can't stand the low quality XGA-panel on my T60 anymore!

bhtooefr wrote:Troels and mani, would you be opposed to the cable taking a detour to the US? I'd basically flash the panel the day I'd get it, and send it back out the next day.

No problem, I just want to know if Troels panels are ready or need to be flashed first, if he's willing to sell me one.

Troels · #21 Post by **Troels** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 6:41 am

Trust me, you don't want either of the two QXGA screens i have in excess. While they work, one has a big fat pressure mark in the middle of the LCD and the other has a pressure mark in the mid-side while featuring strong light leakage from the right side of the LCD. Of course both CCFLs work - but....
Of course i would sell one if you're really that desperate...

At least the panel with light leakage needs no re-flash. The other one i think doesn't either (i.e. i didn't flash it back to the original factory state).

Bhtooefr,
Thinking about this, i think they won't bother at all with customs and taxes on this - due to the fact that it is diy and there is not a single "harmonizing code" to classify this as. But seriously, you could build an all new easy i2c circuit for the amount that shipping costs would take i believe. That aside, now that i think about it, you'd need an euro plug adaptor since the switch-mode power adaptor is pretty much non-removeable from the board.
So i still think that troubleshooting your current board would be the best, with macros and such

bhtooefr · #22 Post by **bhtooefr** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:43 pm

I'll get some pics later today (after I pick up the ThinkPad from the place that Lenovo won't allow to repair it, for whatever reason.)

Anyway, I had an idea here. Is it possible to flash the EEPROM with the panel in the system? If so, could I just go that route, using an external monitor?

bhtooefr · #23 Post by **bhtooefr** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:19 pm

Well, now I'm thinking it's the cable. Because the ground wire just fell off of it when I was trying to connect it all back up for the photo. And my soldering skills suck, so I can't repair it without sending it off to someone.

So, here's the deal. Once I get my laptop back from Solectr^WFlextronics (it's gotta get shipped out tomorrow to them,) I'll ship it to you. (It being "both the laptop AND the LCD," you being "whoever has done this before," not necessarily Troels.)

I don't want to see that laptop again until it has the QXGA panel in it, and fully functioning. That's how sick I am of this darn thing.

Upon completion of the swap, you will receive your choice of:

$100 USD via PayPal, or
The UXGA FlexView panel that's currently in the machine (which is probably the better deal if it's going international, that way only one thing has to be shipped back)

Troels · #24 Post by **Troels** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:59 pm

With regarss to the previous post:
I don't know of any way..
I believe that access to the EDID, and modifying it is not possible when it is powered on - i.e. by DDC-CI

And the latest post:
Again - i have nothing against shipping the cable to you, it was just if it would be faster to fix what you currently have

But i guess it is best to leave it in peace/pieces.

Would be the easiest if someone in the US living nearby you could be of assistance with this, especially when giving/handing over the full laptop

chazz · #25 Post by **chazz** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:23 pm

bhtooefr I feel for you...
i got a QXGA in a R50P...r50P is just too slow for todays multimedia applications..
and Im also toying the idea of T60P QXGA...
and the ebay $400 QXGa looks mighty tempting..without all the hassels..
IF i don't have a QXGA screen already...

bhtooefr · #26 Post by **bhtooefr** » Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:09 pm

I'll take back the post about shipping the whole machine and all that crap - I'll just go to shipping the panel. I'll post everything where I'm trying to find service in this thread, though: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77187

spacejunk · #27 Post by **spacejunk** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 1:06 am

Looks like some folks need help in programming their panels in the US. I have successfully programmed 3 QXGA panels but are hesitant to perform this for strangers but if you don't hold me liable for any damage I'm willing to help. bhtooefr, since you have built a circuit I can take some photos of my circuit and cable and maybe email you some written programming instructions for troubleshooting but if you think it's the cable and you can't solder one PM me and I'll program it for you on condition that I won't be held liable for any unknown existing flaw with the panel or electrical damage that could occur during the programming process (I don't program EEPROMs for a living).

chazz · #28 Post by **chazz** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:24 pm

Hi spacejunk
Pardon my ignorance...I have no experience programming anything..other than my VCR's in the 80's
what do you need?..just the QXGA panel? or do u need the T60P invertor card and the T60p cable behind it as well..
once programmed are there a chance of not being compatible?

bhtooefr · #29 Post by **bhtooefr** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:56 pm

There's a ROM chip on the LCD that contains information about the LCD, such as what video modes it supports and what make and model it is.

In the R50p (or any other R5x or T4x machine,) it need not contain anything, as the R50p doesn't care what's plugged into its monitor cable, and it selects resolutions based on some resistors in the cable.

However, the T60p reads that chip instead, so first, it's gotta have the settings for a 2048x1536 panel. Not only that, but it's also gotta have a Lenovo vendor string, or it rejects the panel, much like the 1802 error you get for putting a non-IBM/Lenovo-branded wireless card in most ThinkPads.

spacejunk · #30 Post by **spacejunk** » Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:12 pm

As far as parts replacement you just need the QXGA panel. You can reuse the inverter card and existing LCD cable. For programming you need

1) Programming circuit which you have to build,
2) Another computer with a parallel port,
3) Modified LCD cable with 4 wires soldered on to connect the output of the programming circuit to the QXGA panel
4) Phoenix EDID editor software (free download, although I can supply the binary for the modified EDID which makes this unnecessary)
5) Ponyprog EEPROM programming software which takes the modified EDID binary file and program it into the QXGA EEPROM (free download)

If you have the right EDID file it will be compatiable after programming. The T60P is easy to disassemble but if you have never done it before it could be tricky. For me the hardest part was the removal of the screen bezel without bending or breaking it but I have done a number of LCD replacement for Thinkpads so it's easy now. Hope this helps.

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