Shouldn't 1 ide channel still be able to support two devices?

Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.760000] scsi 0:0:0:0: Direct-Access ATA HITACHI_DK13FA-4 00MC PQ: 0 ANSI: 5
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.760000] ACPI: PCI Interrupt 0000:02:01.0[A] -> GSI 20 (level, low) -> IRQ 21
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.772000] SCSI device sda: 78140160 512-byte hdwr sectors (40008 MB)
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.772000] sda: Write Protect is off
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.772000] SCSI device sda: write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.772000] SCSI device sda: 78140160 512-byte hdwr sectors (40008 MB)
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.772000] sda: Write Protect is off
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.772000] SCSI device sda: write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 4.772000] sda:<6>e1000: 0000:02:01.0: e1000_probe: (PCI:33MHz:32-bit) 00:0a:e4:23:17:17
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 5.028000] sda1 sda2 < sda5 >
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 5.060000] sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi disk sda
Nov 7 13:29:47 persephone kernel: [ 5.064000] sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0

As you can see from the log entries above, my x40's original hitachi drive always mounts as /dev/sda using the scsi driver when used inside the X40. Only SATA, SCSI, and USB devices mount as sdX. PATA devices mount as hdX.

Also, just to clarify ... both SATA drives and PATA drives are IDE devices.

-Slade

No. An IDE controller whether it's SATA or PATA usually has 2 channels supporting one drive each. This why your typical desktop motherboard has 2 IDE controllers to support 4 drives (2 controllers x 2 channels each). Some notebook motherboards have either the 2nd channel on the single IDE controller permanently disabled or have an IDE controller with only one channel. Use of a single channel SATA-to-IDE drive bridge would also limit the number of channels available.

-Slade

Agreed - they are both ATA - they just use different signaling...

I am curious to know if it is just one "IDE channel" or one "IDE" position - as SATA can only have one device per channel, but IDE can have two (hence Master & Slave)

On a side note - I know I am stating the obvious - but I think there may be a point of confusion here.

~above~

~above~ is right about SATA controllers only supporting 1 channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_ATA

Hmm ... how is it that X40 supports 2 ide devices if it's using a SATA-to-PATA bridge for the PATA Hitachi drive? Is linux reporting misinformation?

-Slade

Booted Linux on my X41 from an external USB-ODD. Internal CF card is sda. Ultrabase HDD is sdb.

From /var/log/boot.msg:



Conclusions:
1) Internal HDD in X41 is SATA. (Plus SATA to PATA bridge.)
2) Ultrabase/Ultrabay is PATA.
3) Linux names a PATA device sdx.

Comments:
1) I see no way of X41 recognizing slave as internal HDD.
2) One might be able to fit two devices into ultrabay.
3) This is consistent with my desktop: SATA-bootdisk is sdc, primary master sda and primary slave sdb.
4) There has to be an unused SATA channel. Activating it is likely to require soldering. I am not going to investigate this.


@Tekkaman_Slade
Could you check your /var/log/boot.msg for anything like the above, please?

I'm very, *very* close now. After getting things running on the Transcend 266X card, messing around with the card slots and nearly having a heart attack when I got a sudden BIOS-level black screen saying something like "IDE-0 failure" (*while* working in Windows!) and the computer subsequently not starting up or recognizing any CFs in the adapter for several hours (I'm not even sure how I fixed it), I decided I wanted more speed if this was going to be a real, viable solution.

So, I followed Tekkaman_Slade's directions from 11/8 (BootPrep, Format FAT32, install XP, etc.), and voila!, I am now running a blazing fast shock-proof WinXP system (relatively, compared to all other CF solutions including a MicroDrive, and the original 1.8" hard drive).

BTW, in retrospect, I agree with both:

Tekkaman_Slade

as well as Sito

While it might be true as Sugo pointed out:



at the same time, obviously Lexar is doing something right, because their card is very, very fast. I'm going to venture a guess that the SanDisk Extreme IV would yield similar results, but require the same tweaking to get it working with WinXP.

I have only one problem left: I cannot figure out how to install the Hitachi MicroDrive drivers so that Windows sees the card as a fixed disk and not removable. I didn't think it'd be a big issue, until I discovered that various things such as NTFS drive attachment (making one NTFS drive "look like" a folder on another drive; i.e. making "My Documents" point to another drive), and even installing software, don't seem to like working if Windows sees the system disk as a removable disk.

I downloaded both the 2GB/4GB as well as 170MB/340MB/etc. drivers from Hitachi, but they would not install, even manually (system said "The specified location does not contain information about your hardware"). I even tried manually editing the .INF file, to no avail. Can Tekkaman_Slade or someone else perhaps explain exactly how to get that part working?

Other than that, everything is working great so far. I used the web browser on the elevated subway heading into work this morning and the speed, plus not worrying about vibrations damaging the hard drive, were beautiful things indeed. Oh, and a little off-topic, but I was pleasantly surprised how readable the X40 screen is with the backlight turned all the way down and using only daylight.

With the Transcend 266X I had actually gotten to the point of disabling various Windows services to try and tweak things faster (it actually worked, but caused some other problems), but now the Lexar is so fast I'm happy just doing a few basic and obvious speed tweaks (disabling swap file, NTFS file access time logging, System Restore (which isn't showing right now because Windows isn't on a "fixed disk"), etc.).

jamiphar asked:

I got it from PCMall, http://www.pcmall.com/ , and their part # is 7315179. Retail price is $29.99 plus s&t, though I have a reseller account with them and so didn't pay full price. You may be able to find it elsewhere cheaper.

For jamiphar's other question about upgrading MP3 recorders, and in reference to aboveliquidice's comment:



Only the iPod Mini (*not* Nano) will take a CF card directly. And, I've heard (but not confirmed, since all the cards I've been playing with recently are of course compatible) the card must support IDE mode. There are adapters available for the full-size iPod (perhaps to upgrade an older 5/10/15/20/30GB unit; kinda' pointless on the newer models with huge hard drives except for shock resistance) but otherwise a CF will not directly go in them. And since jamiphar was talking about an MP3 "recorder", it's probably not an iPod anyway (?). But my formerly 4GB Mini is now nicely running one of the 16GB 133X Transcend cards that didn't make the cut for my ThinkPad speed-wise (BTW, copying music over was also very slow--I left it on overnight to copy over 12.5GB of music--pretty much setting in stone that the Transcend cards are *really* bad for extended write sessions)!

My next steps, after getting software installed (which will partially require fixing the "removable disk" issue), will be getting hold of a Delkin CardBus adapter for my "semi-external" CF card, and getting a 4GB SD card and trying that out. I'll report on the findings, as well as battery life under average usage, as I use the system. Meanwhile, if anyone can help with the MicroDrive drivers issue it would be appreciated.

That was true in the old days, nowadays, most (if not all) distributions treats PATA drives as SCSI drives (sdX).

The mp3 player I have is an Archos Gmini 220. It has a Hitachi 20gb 1.8" 7mm (not 9mm, although one might fit) drive with a standard 44-pin connection. If the adapter could physically fit in there, I could load the correct firmware and maybe it would work. If the card I use is readable as a normal IDE drive, then the Archos shouldn't be able to tell the difference, right?

Sounds exactly like the drives used in X40 and X41. 20 GB version is HTC426020G7AT00. Physically adaptor plus CF card just have to fit. The mp3 player's BIOS or firmware has to recognize any IDE device instead of only that HDD. There is only one way to find out: Try. IMHO chances are pretty good.

That part number is the newer version of this drive, so it's good to know the card should fit. Would a dual CF adapter be too thick?

I think I'll give it a try. I've already ordered a single CF adapter from eBay, I might try the Addonics adapter if this one doesn't work.

My desktop Ubuntu Feisty install uses a PATA drive and it shows up as /dev/hda. Same goes for the latest version of Slackware if I remember correctly.

-Slade

I ran into the same issues before installing the Hitachi MicroDrive drivers. Here's how I installed the drivers.

1) Download xpfildrvr1224_320.zip from ... (google is your friend)

2) Unzip xpfildrvr1224_320.zip.

3) Right-click on "My Computer" and select "properties" to open the System Properties window.

4) Select the "Hardware tab" at the top of the window.

5) Click the "Device Manager" button.

6) Collapse the list of drives under "Disk Drive", right click on "LEXAR ATA FLASH CARD" and select "Update Driver".

7) Select no when asked to connect to Windows Update to search for software and click Next.

Select "Install from a list or specify location" and click Next.

9) Select "Don't Search. I will choose a driver to install" and click Next.

10) Click the "Have Disk" button, browse to the folder containing the unzipped files, and click OK.

11) Click Next and click Yes to pass the driver warning message.

12) Click continue to pass the Unsigned driver warning.

13) Click finish.

14) Click yes to restart the machine.


All done.

-Slade

Strange, I've always seen my PATA drive as sdX in newer installations, even feisty. And in Slack 12. But in Dapper it was shown as hdX.

Thanks so much to Slade for the help. I was able to find the file and get it installed without a problem. I wonder if that's a customized driver, or just a lesser-known one. In any case, it did the trick perfectly, and I am now running a lightning-fast X40 with SSD.

Now, since my storage drive (16GB Transcend 133X) is so slow, I'll probably pick up a SanDisk Extreme III 16GB before anything else, and then worry about the other memory cards, Bluetooth, etc.

So far, so great. I'll report back here on things such as battery life and speed as I get some use out of this machine.

I have to say, this whole topic has been spectacularly informative. I know y'all are working x40's, and I've got an x31 I'm thinking of doing this to, but I suspect the information will translate pretty well. Waiting on Lewster's latest speed ratings for the Lexar 300x CF to really make the jump.

Everyone here is doing some excellent work, and I am learning a vast amount just reading it all.

Thanks,

-Jon

There is a big difference between X40/X41 and X30/X31/X32. The entire CF issue starts with that slow Hitachi HDD X40/X41 use. SSDs in X40/X41 form factor are very expensive. Right now CF is the only affordable way to improve performance.

Your X31 accepts a normal 2.5" PATA SSD. Or even a 7200 rpm HDD. Consider those options before using CF.

This thread contains alot of good info about Compact flash/SSD's and adapters.
If anyone haven't already started, I think I'll begin compiling it all into an article under "X40" in the thinkwiki.

EDIT: And on a side note...How do I make new pages in that wiki?

I purchased an Addonics CF adapter and two 8GB Lexar 300x CF cards for my X40 last night after reading this thread. Can't wait to see the results!

I have no idea - but this definitely deserves a place in the Wiki for x40/41 - It was awesome to watch how quickly you guys got it done.

~above~

It's very informative indeed.

However, one thing I'll like to know more is...
It's impossible to disable the bios warning msg at all with the flash adapters? Does the warning comes out for both x40 and x41?

Another thing is, wat are the chances of the future cheap ssd drives having the pata interface?

Btw, I guess this is offtopic, but does this adapter http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280130795434 allows us to use the current 1.8 toshiba drives on the X40/X41?


Cheers

I did not manage to turn it off. You could write your own BIOS...

I am interested in a BIOS patch.

On X41 it is there. X40? Someone else answer this.

A lot of 2.5" drives have. Most 1.8" SSD have a PATA interface. It just happens to be 50 pin ZIF. Chances of future 1.8" drives with 44 pin PATA interface are slim. The existing Super Talent and PQI drives will get cheaper. If you wait.

IMHO that is on topic. Looks like the adaptor will work electrically. The drive will stick out of the housing. Just like a 2.5" PATA drive would. You'd have to place a 1.8" drive with ZIF connector somewhere in the X40/X41, use the adaptor and build your own cable. Or scrap the adaptor and just build your own cable. Might even work. If you can find a place for the drive without blocking a connector. Guess it requires major internal surgery.

I've never received a bios warning message of any kind while using a CF with a CF-to-IDE adapter on the X40.

-Slade

Sounds like too big a job just to use the new 1.8 drives even with the zif - ide adapter

Hi Slade, care to let us know the duration of your boot up from BIOS to login screen on either XP or Linux?

I wonder if seneca would care to share, after raiding the two CF cards, is the performance increment significant?



Lastly, will you guys recommend that I do programming work (C, C++ , Java) on the x40 after changing to CF boot?

Cheers for all the great advice provided by you guys here

From BIOS to login screen on XP takes literally less than a second. The status animation on the XP load screen doesn't even get a chance to move. From BIOS to login on Ubuntu Feisty takes a bit longer. With GRUB set to a 1 second delay, it usually takes another 5 seconds for Ubuntu Feisty to get to the login screen.

Using an X40 with an SSD to do programming shouldn't be a problem.

-Slade

Booting up takes less than a second?

Is this case for everyone using the higher end CF cards?

I don't get a warning either, with my dual CF adapter. However, I can only boot from the primary, as it is the primary ide and the only one showing up in the bootmenu.

Oh yes I don't have any exact measurments, but it's much faster then the regular hdd. Starting firefox after a cold boot perhaps takes 2.5s. And closer to a second when it's cached.
The biggest improvment with striping the CF-cards is the write performance, which is kind of the bottleneck on CF's.
Read performance is probably enough if you use a non-raided card, the performance bottleneck in my case is the cpu, the cpu simply cannot fully utilize the speed of the read performance. But it's nice if you need to upload something on a gigabit network.

However, I've experienced drops in performance lately. The cards sometimes drops to pio4 from UDMA, and I'm not sure why.

And yesterday, the raid0 logical volume mounted as / (root, applications and such) was broken. The error was something about the UUID and a size mismatch....Have no idea what it meant.



Yes, but I don't think you'll get any performance improvement there. Little if any. Maybe the silence is worth the conversion though.

Looked around for mini PCI flash to place even more storage in X41. Just like the Sandisk Vaulter, only mini PCI. Did not find any. Not even a simple mini PCI to CF card.

Have a look at what I did find:

http://www.globalamericaninc.com/p18011 ... _info.html

A mini PCI card with one CF, one 44 pin PATA and two SATA ports. +5 V available at both PATA and CF connectors.

I am afraid it will not fit into X41 at all. The access panel collides with the connectors.


If we do happen to find flash for mini PCI: Where to put WLAN?
a) Cardbus. Costs room for one CF card. Most cardbus WLAN cards stick out of the machine.
b) SD. Thinkwiki lists X40/X41 SD as compatible to SDIO. There are SD WLAN cards fitting into a slot without sticking out. Any drivers for Linux/XP?
c) External USB. Do not like the idea.

I need to give you all an update. In my previous post I told you my raid0 stripe was broken yesterday, and today I've investigated it.

Seems like linux-ide is broken, there's a bug in correctly handling MWDMA or UDMA. This causes data to be corrupted and subsequently breaks the Stripe....

At least, that's what I can comprehend from this thread on LKML:
http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-ide%40vger.kernel.org/msg09736.html

The bug exists in linux 2.6.22 vanilla.