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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 8:26 am 
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Have one the Samsung LTN121XP01-001 screens now. And despite good measurement values it is a terrible screen.
Worst thing is a very visible screen door effect - the Boe Hydis XGA do not have that at all.

But it is bright: my Spyder3 says 160 nits, contrast 554:1, with CCFL (and it is a well used screen).

But I wanted the Samsung only for the back part - plastic frame, waveguide and diffusor sheets. The frame needs some modifications at the top, but otherwise the Boe Hydis SXGA+ front panel will fit nicely on the Samsung frame.

Bad news: brightness with CCFL is down to 125 nits - which is about what my Spyder would measure with a new HV12P01-100. So the Boe panel needs much more light than the Samsung to achieve the same brightness.

Good news: no pattern at all at the bottom edge, not with any of the 3 chinese strips I tried.

Now impatiently waiting for the daylight kit to arrive.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:12 pm 
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Qing Dao wrote:
I was hanging out with my dad this evening and saw that he had a Spyder 2 monitor calibrator. I used it and it helped tremendously with my modded display. It isn't perfect, but it is a lot better than I was able to get by changing the settings manually.

If it's useful for anyone, here are calibrations made on samsung LTN121XJ-L07 TN screens, see the x6x* files:
http://www.jesseo.com/calibration/

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:25 pm 
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wileE wrote:
Have one the Samsung LTN121XP01-001 screens now. And despite good measurement values it is a terrible screen.
Worst thing is a very visible screen door effect - the Boe Hydis XGA do not have that at all.

Hmm, I did not notice that when evaluating the LTN121XP01 here. Can you describe it in more detail?

wileE wrote:
But it is bright: my Spyder3 says 160 nits, contrast 554:1, with CCFL (and it is a well used screen).

Your contrast measurement is also a lot lower than what I got. Perhaps there's more than one version of this screen too.

Quote:
Now impatiently waiting for the daylight kit to arrive.

It went out June 11, expect it (hopefully) soon!


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 21, 2016 9:28 am 
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xiphmont wrote:
wileE wrote:
Have one the Samsung LTN121XP01-001 screens now. And despite good measurement values it is a terrible screen.
Worst thing is a very visible screen door effect - the Boe Hydis XGA do not have that at all.

Hmm, I did not notice that when evaluating the LTN121XP01 here. Can you describe it in more detail?


It is the grid of dark lines between the pixels. That is different from just big pixels with the XGA resolution.
Large pic warning:
http://i.imgur.com/OHCm6iM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KNacl17.jpg

And you can see in the second pic that the Samsung MVA has unusual >>> shaped pixels.

I will do the measurements again when the daylight kit is here. The difference in contrast is rather large.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 5:07 pm 
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Received my two daylight X61T kits safe and sound this week in Toronto Canada. It may be a couple weeks before I have a chance to install one. Thanks!

Phil.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:24 pm 
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wileE wrote:
It is the grid of dark lines between the pixels. That is different from just big pixels with the XGA resolution.

Ah, I see. Yeah, PVA pixels are actually smaller when they're not full-on. I've used exclusively SPVA here for many years on my desktop workstation, I must just be used to it. Actually, come to think of it, these Eizo panels have an anti-glare that acts as a fairly strong lowpass. That's probably on purpose.

wileE wrote:
And you can see in the second pic that the Samsung MVA has unusual >>> shaped pixels.

Yup, that's PVA all right :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:25 pm 
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pkiff wrote:
Received my two daylight X61T kits safe and sound this week in Toronto Canada. It may be a couple weeks before I have a chance to install one. Thanks!

Phil.


Great! I tried a new way of wrapping the exposed sections of the board in heatshrink. Let me know if it causes any trouble with clearances. It shouldn't, but anything new has that potential....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 9:37 am 
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I've killed my second inverter/driver board, again from a short. It now has just 3 levels of brightness. The short was on the led strip, on the right side of the screen where the cables come out of the LED. With the (TN screen) LED inserted in the screen the power cables extend beyond the screen frame by about 2cm, into space where the hinge/support bracket are.

I have been inserting the LED and then bending the protruding wire ~90 degrees and then mounting the bracket atop it - pinching the protruding cables.
Is there an alternate way to deal with the 2cm length?

Second question, how can I tell if the coil is charred?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:08 am 
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jaspen-meyer wrote:
I've killed my second inverter/driver board, again from a short. It now has just 3 levels of brightness. The short was on the led strip, on the right side of the screen where the cables come out of the LED. With the (TN screen) LED inserted in the screen the power cables extend beyond the screen frame by about 2cm, into space where the hinge/support bracket are.

I have been inserting the LED and then bending the protruding wire ~90 degrees and then mounting the bracket atop it - pinching the protruding cables.
Is there an alternate way to deal with the 2cm length?

Ah, so something eventually wore through? Or did something cut through during installation? Or is it a short under the heatshrink?

Also, Chinese strip or one of my Daylight strips? I ask because I went to a tougher FPE lead insulation, and I arranged the connections so shorts should be hard. So I wonder if I've failed...

jaspen-meyer wrote:
Second question, how can I tell if the coil is charred?

The coils will show no external sign of damage. You'd need to pull it off with a hot air wand and test it on an inductance meter to see if it's off-spec. (Original board, or new TLD3 with the tougher coil?)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:26 am 
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It was NOT a daylight strip and not a TLD3.
I think the short is under the heatshrink, but don't have the board with me - will answer your questions in a month.

Regardless, question stands. How does one deal with that 2cm section? Am I screwing something up by bending it and letting it get pinched under the right bracket?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 27, 2016 10:41 am 
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jaspen-meyer wrote:
I think the short is under the heatshrink, but don't have the board with me - will answer your questions in a month.

Ah, it failed after being in use for a while?

jaspen-meyer wrote:
Regardless, question stands. How does one deal with that 2cm section? Am I screwing something up by bending it and letting it get pinched under the right bracket?

You *shouldn't* be, but there may be more flex there than I thought. I might also need to spend more time here destroying some Chinese strips to see how they fail.

The tablets (which are the machines I actually spend most of my time with) have an extra cm of dead space in the lid to work with on the side, but I have taken to notching the plastic frame along the front of the screen so I can bend the wires at 90 degrees and exit out the front of the frame instead of along the side. A little hot air to soften the heatshrink before bending, and it'll hold the shape nicely. Of course, all of that would be for naught if the Chinese strips have insufficient insulation protecting the wires so that any bending runs the risk of the wires shorting... Hm, if the insulation is insufficient under the heatshrink, it's not the bending that's the risk.

Check to see if something got pinched-through or pierced. But if it really is the case that bare wire under the heatshrink shorted out... gah, I may have to re-tail the Chinese strips I sell before sending them out.

[edit: just grabbed four random iCCFL strips out of my 'Original' stock to pull off the heatshrink and inspect. To my surprise, there are three different pad layouts under the heatshrink-- I thought these were all the same, they were part of the same order-- and the tailing jobs ranged from 'so-so' to 'imminent short waiting to happen'. All four removed too much wire insulation so that twisting the leads right at the board edge would eventually cause a short, though on two of them it would require some abuse first. The other two had crumbling/charred insulation from soldering and one had a sharp point in a solder joint digging into/piercing the neighboring wire's insulation. So yeah, I'd not be surprised to find out your short is under the heatshrink]


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 29, 2016 9:19 pm 
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The DAYLIGHT kit is installed and working in an x60t running Libreboot.
It has 16 brightness steps which are sensibly spaced.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 4:56 pm 
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HV121p01-101 panel on frame/waveguide/diffusor sheets from a Samsung LTN121XP01-001 + Monty TLD3 daylight kit = 708 nits max brightness.
LED strip is pressed directly against the waveguide. No pattern, no horizontal shadow. Colors are not influenced by the Samsung parts. I use the same Lenovo generic TPFLX.icm color profile with all daylight screens.

I will have to tweak the driver to get one or two more steps below 100 nits. The spacing of the steps at the upper end has turned out to be not so important. When I need it brighter than 300 nits I always go to max brightness.
link brightness steps: http://imgur.com/OrRn9F2


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2016 5:04 pm 
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wileE wrote:
I will have to tweak the driver to get one or two more steps below 100 nits. The spacing of the steps at the upper end has turned out to be not so important. When I need it brighter than 300 nits I always go to max brightness.


Crank the left-hand potentiometer fully clockwise, set backlight to min brightness, then adjust the right hand potentiometer to the desired level for min brightness (probably around the point where it just starts to affect the brightness level). That'll give you the most extreme spacing between high-brightness steps, and closest together min-brightness steps.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2016 3:03 pm 
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Adjusting the brightness curve worked very well. It is much closer now to what I need. Those potentiometers are a beautiful idea.

The range is incredible, from 14 to 740 nits now. Link pic: http://imgur.com/1UBp0le


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 7:18 pm 
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DayLight kit installed and working impressively well.

The colors are much better. Very saturated. Those led's are something special.

Thanks xiphmont for your amazing work on this one.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 25, 2016 5:10 am 
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A quick note to folks: I'm a bit bogged down by other things right now (not least of which me losing the 20TB filesystem on my main workstation) and as a result I'm being laggy answering emails and taking kit orders. This will all resolve, but in the name of proactive communication, I'm going to be lousy at communication for a few weeks :-)


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:11 pm 
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I also got around to installing one of your daylight kits into my SXGA+; working surprisingly well considering some of the mishaps due to my inexperience. (I also modded the metal frame to install it into an X61, which I am currently typing this message on.) Some slight yellowish tint on the side where the LCD cable lies, and a very small burst of backlight in the bottom left corner, but these are pretty minor issues. You would have to threaten me to get me open this LCD assembly back up any time soon due to the hassle of getting it in. The furthest I'll go is to replace the LCD driver board in the case of updates for the X62.

And I installed another kit into the leftover XGA screen now sitting in my beat up X60 chassis. It went even better the second time around. The screen currently residing in my X61 is awesome, and I've got an X62 motherboard on the way. Here's to the future of the X6x.

edit: Just knocked out two birds with one stone. I had some dimness on the right side of the display where the backlight was inserted and a spot in the bottom left corner...turns out it was inserted too far into the channel. Pulling it out a little took care of both.

There's still a yellowish tint on the upper left / middle of the display. Not sure if it is from the LCD cable being bent too much or if it is now a feature of the SXGA+ display itself. I tried to test if it was due to pressure from the cable, but even removing the back of the display doesn't alleviate it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 1:16 pm 
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fatpolomanjr wrote:
There's still a yellowish tint on the upper left / middle of the display. Not sure if it is from the LCD cable being bent too much or if it is now a feature of the SXGA+ display itself. I tried to test if it was due to pressure from the cable, but even removing the back of the display doesn't alleviate it.

Variations in color/brightness can also be due to a slight twist in the strip. The strips are a little bit flexible and tend to hold any bends you put in them.

Another possibility is that some of the AFFS screens have a backlight channel with a slightly amber reflective coating; I don't think it's from age, I think it was done intentionally to color correct for specific batches of CCFL tubes. The coating doesn't affect LEDs much if at all since we're trying to avoid using the reflector at all, but if it starts to peel off in some spot, it can start to get in the way.

Also a new realization: Windows 10 apparently can use a backlight driver that reprograms the backlight control PLL. That means that it no longer uses the BIOS brightness, and I'm running into stock X60 models running windows 10 with 16 brightness steps that follow a pattern more like the X61. That also means the X60 spacing doesn't work entirely properly on these machines. As a result I think I need to retire the non-TLD3 boards for all kits. Along with going to the TLD3 (so all modders can change things to their liking), I will change the default X60 settings to have a narrower range like the machines started with. Then Windows10 will work normally.

(What caused the problem: LEDs are bright and models earlier than the X61 have a relatively narrow brightness range. I widened the effective range in the LED driver boards for those models. Unfortunately, Windows 10 has now made the same change from the software side. The two 'stack up' and now the brightness range on X60 with Windows10 is wider than the board can actually drive, so a few steps at minimum brightness become the same. I don't know if win10 always does this or if it's an optional driver that makes this change).


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:20 pm 
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I don't know if the right side of the display where the backlight was inserted is dimmer, or if it is the yellow tint that makes it look that way. To rule out installation faults like twists I will try reinserting the backlight, but not until my X62 board comes in, as removing and putting back the hinges on an SXGA+ modded display in an X60/61 non-tablet is very tedious.

For now I've coped by either ignoring it, or when that becomes too difficult, inverting all of my colors in Linux with xcalib (set to Fn+F6 with a keyboard shortcut). This makes darker colors dominant, which makes it a lot harder to notice any backlight variation. Looks awesome too! Except with images and videos, in which I temporarily restore the normal colors.

Thankfully I'm not affected by anything in Windows, as I run Xubuntu 16.04 and have an X61 motherboard installed in my X60. I'm still undecided if I want to install windows with the new motherboard.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 3:32 am 
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Code:
xcalib -i profile.icc

There's a switch to invert colors, how cool!

The experimental x22 board installed easily, though the tunnel is a bit wider and the led was slipping off of the teflon, but there were a few hitches. Led tested fine. Installed into screen, tested fine. Mounted screen. After mounting, applying slight pressure to the bottom right corner of the screen caused the display to light up when the machine was off. Removed power and led turned off. Plug in AC, screen lit up. Boot up OS ;). No brightness control, display at full power. Power off computer (after 15 seconds). Disconnect power. Unmount screen. Start machine, brightness stepping working. Notice black spot near bottom left of screen. Apply a little pressure with fingers to bottom left of screen. A second black spot appears. Power off machine. Remove led. Led looks like this:

http://jesseo.com/thinkpads/failing-led-x22.jpg

I have other LED strips on hand but am unsure how to proceed.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 5:11 pm 
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jaspen-meyer wrote:
[

The experimental x22 board installed easily, though the tunnel is a bit wider and the led was slipping off of the teflon, but there were a few hitches. Led tested fine. Installed into screen, tested fine. Mounted screen. After mounting, applying slight pressure to the bottom right corner of the screen caused the display to light up when the machine was off. Removed power and led turned off. Plug in AC, screen lit up. Boot up OS ;). No brightness control, display at full power. Power off computer (after 15 seconds). Disconnect power. Unmount screen. Start machine, brightness stepping working. Notice black spot near bottom left of screen. Apply a little pressure with fingers to bottom left of screen. A second black spot appears. Power off machine. Remove led. Led looks like this:

http://jesseo.com/thinkpads/failing-led-x22.jpg

I have other LED strips on hand but am unsure how to proceed.

You had another 'shorting the negative leg of the LED output to ground' problem. I'd upgraded the X22 board's inductor so it won't take shorting damage, but the Chinese LED strips will take permanent damage from even an instant of overcurrent. It's dead Jim. We're going to need to be much more careful about shorts. I need to know more about your installation technique, you're killing original kit parts left and right (ah well, knowledge gained is usually proportional to the expense of equipment damaged :-)

FWIW, the daylight strips are rated for about 10x their actual operating current. They'd overheat eventually, but the driver is otherwise unable to source enough current to damage one electrically. Maybe I need to stop selling original kits.... they're more fragile.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:02 am 
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xiphmont wrote:
Maybe I need to stop selling original kits.... they're more fragile.

I have played around a lot with those strips, and have not yet managed to damage one.
But I always tape the end of the strip. And also cut off the black shrink wrap and redo the soldering of the wires. That is very often more than sloppy.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2016 7:06 pm 
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wileE wrote:
I have played around a lot with those strips, and have not yet managed to damage one.
But I always tape the end of the strip. And also cut off the black shrink wrap and redo the soldering of the wires. That is very often more than sloppy.

Nice! I'm certain these steps would have prevented the shorts in my strips.

xiphmont wrote:
We're going to need to be much more careful about shorts. I need to know more about your installation technique, you're killing original kit parts left and right

Well, knowing these are delicate electronics I try to be as gentle as possible. I put the screen in a vice, bore out the ccfl with a power drill and insert the diodes with a chisel and mallet. Next I remove the protective plastic surrounding the driver board, strip any and all wire insulation, sprinkle everything with gold dust, wrap in tin foil and stick in the oven to bake for 2-3 hours at 500 C.

One short was the led strip's end contacting the mounting brace on screen left.
The other shorts were sensistive to pressure on screen right and I assume the cause was hidden under the black shrink wrap surrounding the power leads.
Of note, the x22 was the only case where the LED failed. On that machine the led was working correctly after installation, then it shorted for a while and then the individual led's blew.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:31 am 
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How much force, directly down onto the top of the led, can the leds take? Perhaps I'm using too many spacing strips and am destroying the led strip when I insert them into the screen. I try to make them a very snug fit

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:27 am 
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jaspen-meyer wrote:
How much force, directly down onto the top of the led, can the leds take? Perhaps I'm using too many spacing strips and am destroying the led strip when I insert them into the screen. I try to make them a very snug fit


Pressing on only the translucent yellow window, not much. The package bodies will take a decent amount of down force, but they're made from epoxy, so they'll tend to crumble if they're pressed down and sheared. If the fit is so tight it's hard to slide in without potentially bending/snapping the board, that's too tight (no more than a pound or two of force, ideally less). An overly snug fit will also tend to push the acrylic waveguide forward in the backlight bracket far enough it might pop out.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2016 6:50 am 
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xiphmont wrote:
bending/snapping the board

I bend the led strip when inserting. My aim is 'angling the thing in there', for a snug fit.
That said, no way am I applying 1-2 lbs force.
Will try will less teflon strips.

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 11, 2016 4:11 am 
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jaspen-meyer wrote:
xiphmont wrote:
bending/snapping the board

I bend the led strip when inserting. My aim is 'angling the thing in there', for a snug fit.
That said, no way am I applying 1-2 lbs force.


Oh! if you have to angle it in, you maybe aren't trimming away enough/the right plastic from the side. You should be able to get a straight-shot into the backlight bracket. Snagging an LED on the plastic frame as you insert a strip can definitely cause an LED to disintegrate. The strips can otherwise take a decent amount of flex/bend/pressure without damage, but it's probably a good statistical idea to baby them as much as possible :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:00 am 
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I have one of Montys Nichia daylight strips in my X201 now. Very happy with the result.

Screen is a Samsung LTN121W4-L01 PVA from the HP tablet PCs. It is a screen with LED backlight, but only 187 nits bright, and the colors are not really good with that backlight. I had to mount the panel on a modified frame of LG standard X201 screen, because the bracket with the LED strip on the Samsung was only 2mm wide. No way to make the daylight strip fit. (Note: you will find the Samsung screen for under 15$ on ebay, but you have to make a conversion cable to 40 pin, 0,4mm pitch to connect ii)

Max. brightness is now 440nits (sot of expected more). sRGB color space coverage went from 53 to 71%, which is very much noticeable.
Contrast is a decent 710:1. The screen is evenly illuminated, no mirror images at all at the bottom.

Viewing angles of the PVA are not as good as with a BoeHydis AFFS, but plenty good enough for a 12.1 screen.

Some pictures in the german forum: https://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/148838-Projekt-LED-Display-Mod-an-X61-und-X61T-von-und-f%C3%BCr-Elektronik-Dummies?p=2064703&viewfull=1#post2064703 Large pic warning!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 9:17 am
Posts: 1426
Location: Toronto, Canada
Finally getting around to installing the Daylight kits I ordered last summer!

I notice that I will need some double-sided tape, and that ideally I should use heat-resistant double-sided tape, like Killer Red. If I'm going to order some tape online, what width should I get so that it fits (or is easily cuttable with an Xacto knife)? 5mm? 6mm? 10mm?

And does anyone know where I can pick up such tape in Toronto instead of ordering online? I can find standard Scotch or 3M double-sided general use tape easily, but where do I go to find heat-resistant tape designed for electronics?

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