T420: add SSD

[TimeCoder]

Hi everyone,
I am happy: I've just bought T420 that spent last 5 years in the box. Looks like new! For development (C# .net, Windows 10) I want get more performance with SSD, there is 2 options:
1. Replace current HDD by SSD, put HDD to ultrabay (instead dvd-rom). Use SSD for Windows and Visual Studio, use HDD for source code, docs and etc.
2. Find big SSD (~ 500GB) and store ALL there. Why I am considering this option? Decrease heating and energy consumption.

1st question: which approach is better?
2nd: what kind of SSD do I need for T420 (SATA, SATA II, ...)?

thank you.

[ajkula66]

Welcome to the forum!

Hi everyone,
I am happy: I've just bought T420 that spent last 5 years in the box. Looks like new! For development (C# .net, Windows 10) I want get more performance with SSD, there is 2 options:
1. Replace current HDD by SSD, put HDD to ultrabay (instead dvd-rom). Use SSD for Windows and Visual Studio, use HDD for source code, docs and etc.
2. Find big SSD (~ 500GB) and store ALL there. Why I am considering this option? Decrease heating and energy consumption.

Actually, there's a third option which is preferred by many *20 series users: install an mSATA SSD in the WWAN slot, which would enable you to keep both the and the media drive in their current places. The only downside to this is that the mSATA slot would limit your transfer speeds to SATA II.

1st question: which approach is better?

None of them is better per se. It all depends on your needs and budget.

2nd: what kind of SSD do I need for T420 (SATA, SATA II, ...)?

If you're installing the SSD in the main bay, it should be a SATA III.

[excal32]

It's better to have a large HDD in the HDD bay and a mSATA SSD in that port. My T420 has a 512gb Samsung mSATA and a 3TB 2.5" drive in the hard drive bay. very nice!

[TimeCoder]

Thanks for the help!
WWAN slot - it's new information for me. As I understood, this port is inside notebook, and I'm not sure may I open its myself. What if this port already busy? Or missing on my T420? (I have corporate version without fingerprint scanner and with sticker "No encryption").

Secondly, if WWAN has SATA II speed, what is the point, do we have benefits of SSD without SATA III?

[RistoE]

Thanks for the help!
WWAN slot - it's new information for me. As I understood, this port is inside notebook, and I'm not sure may I open its myself. What if this port already busy? Or missing on my T420? (I have corporate version without fingerprint scanner and with sticker "No encryption").

Secondly, if WWAN has SATA II speed, what is the point, do we have benefits of SSD without SATA III?

WWAN slot is under T420, just one screw and you see if it is empty. On its side is the sodimm slot. If there is a card already it is for mobile phone network connection, you can use it or replace it. I'm using Samsung SATA III SSD on my WWAN and it was definitely good buy.

[RealBlackStuff]

Secondly, if WWAN has SATA II speed, what is the point, do we have benefits of SSD without SATA III?

On that WWAN-mSATA (even 128GB would be enough) you only install the OS (Windows or Linux) plus your usual programs.
The main HD/SSD would contain all your storage of music, pictures, games, etc.
SATA-II for that OS would be more than fast enough, all it needs to do is boot.
Apart from that, people stare themselves blind on SATA-II or SATA-III.
Technically it should be a huge difference, in real life it's hardly noticeably and only a matter of 1 or 2 seconds.

The main/huge difference in speed is between a rotating hard drive and an SSD.

[theterminator93]

I have the usual config in my --20 series machines. mSATA SSD, then in the T series I have a platter disk for storage (also where I put the page file). There's a 480GB mSATA and a 500 GB platter disk in my W520, a 240 GB mSATA/320 in the T420, then 120 GB mSATAs in the X220 and X220T. Perfect for my purposes; a very nice arrangement. Fast storage for where you need/can take advantage of it, and cheap storage for where you don't need the speed.

Being brutally honest, with the OS on an SSD limited to SATA-II and seeing newer machines with the OS on a SATA-III or M.2 SSD... I notice no difference in snappiness. I truly think that the OS isn't asking for data any faster than SATA-II can give it, what with single threaded CPU speeds not really improving all that much in the last 5 years. What the SSD really offers (which has already been said here) is the quick response time in random access for small files, which is far more important for an OS than reading or writing huge chunks of data sequentially.

If you're unsure, then grab an mSATA SSD which offers SATA-III connectivity (which just about all will). Try it out in the mSATA slot and see the benefits firsthand. If you need further convincing, just get a $10 (or less) 2.5" SATA to mSATA adapter enclosure, then reinstall your SSD into the main SATA bay (no reconfiguration or reinstallation of software should be needed), and you can see if there is a noticeable difference (or even measure bootup times between the two interfaces).

[w0qj]

A) I feel that mSATA SSD is more expensive; better to use this same amount of money to buy a larger capacity 2.5" SSD (SATA III speed) instead.
Our T410 is currently using a 1 TB [1TB=1,000 GB] 2.5" SSD (SATA III speed) which has a 10-year warranty for future proofing.


B) Folks, we have extensively used our T410 (SATA II connection) hard drive (500 GB / 7200 RPM), then upgraded to a SATA III SSD.
Let us share our daily experience with you, after extensive use of both hard disk and SSD:
(Note: The T410 is similar to the T420 in question, except that the T410 does not have the mSATA slot.)

By upgrading your hard drive to SATA III SSD (Note: both T420 and T410 max speed is SATA II for reading/writing SSD):

1a) Hard Drive: Browsing a folder of 200 photo thumbnail previews (among Gigabytes of data) takes up to half a minute to show all photo thumbnails on your screen. Then you repeat this process *each* time you scroll down the page in Windows Explorer.
1b) SSD: all 200 photo thumbnail previews showed up almost instantaneously (among Gigabytes of data--same data migrated to SSD).

2a) Hard Drive: copying Gigabytes of data onto same hard drive took minutes.
2b) SSD: copying Gigabytes of data onto same SSD took much less time. Very rarely do you have to wait for data to be copied.

Therefore SSD performance in T420 is much faster than a hard drive. Like another poster said, the "Read Data" is much faster using SSD, even after discounting the fact that T420 (SATA II) cannot fully utilize the full SATA III speed of SSD. Therefore it is worth it to just stick with a larger SATA III SSD for your T420.

[ajkula66]

B) Folks, we have extensively used our T410 (SATA II connection) hard drive (500 GB / 7200 RPM), then upgraded to a SATA III SSD.

You do realize that no laptop spinning drive is able to saturate a SATA II bus, correct?

You also, I presume, realize that it's the 4K measurements where one sees the actual "real life" improvement with *any* SSD over *any* HDD, right?

(Note: both T420 and T410 max speed is SATA II for reading/writing SSD):

No.

T410 is SATA II all the way. T420 is SATA III in the main bay and SATA II in the mSATA slot.

In real life, unless one is constantly copying TBs of data the difference in performance between SATA II and SATA III is indistinguishable for most people.

[Cigarguy]

As others have said, in real life usage there's not much difference between SATA II vs III. I wouldn't hesitate to run mSata in any machine that will accommodate it. My T420 had a 128 GB mSata for OS and programs with a 1 GB HDD for data.

[SaskFellow]

I has 480GB Samsung 850Pro in the main bay.

Make absolutely sure that the SATA ports are configured to use AHCI in the bios. If you have installed Windows already, make sure you go in and modify the registry before switching the setting in the BIOS, or you'll be greeted with a blue screen.

The SATA3 port in my T420s, actually turns in bench results that exceed even the Samsung 'specs', and that's without RAPID enabled.

I have a 1TB spinner mounted in an ultrabay carrier, so I can use it when needed, and for quick backup purposes. I remove the drive when not needed, and enjoy a better battery life because its much more power efficient. Which because the T420s is very battery limited, it's an important factor.

Another aspect worth considering, is that without a mechanical HDD mounted, the system is much much quieter, you also don't have to worry about shaking or bumping the system while the drive is active.

If you go with a mechanical drive, I strongly suggest going with an SSHD, having a small SSD attached directly to the HDD to act as a booster drive is quite handy, and will see windows boot like an SSD and most apps load quickly, while being cheap. The downside is that once you run out of cache or ask for data not on the cache, you are limited to the speed of the HDD.

[TimeCoder]

Hello again,
that what I see in backside of my T420:
https://s21.postimg.org/caw1e3qfr/IMAG1773.jpg

There is very small space, looks like I can't insert SSD to WWAN slot, isn't?

[RealBlackStuff]

Plenty room for the mSATA SSD.
It has the same size as a regular wifi/WWAN card.

[TonyJZX]

msata has only one size format so you cant go wrong

i dont have an issue with msata... my 420 and 420s came populated with the f5521g whatever card so i just leave it.

Also the market here basically gives away full size 7mm 2.5 ssds so I dont see the point of msata where its 100% not needed... eg. I have a 400s that only has msata so got not choice.

A 240gb 7mm ssd is the same price as a 120gb msata ssd.

Anyway very happy with both my 420s. Both use Samsung ssd booters and I use a ultrabay hdd chassis when needed.

[excal32]

A T420 was my daily driver for many, many years. Had a 512GB mSATA and 2TB in the drive bay. Used the optical drive constantly so I didn't put any drives in that bay. Good machine.

There are actually 2 forms of mSATA. M.2 and plain mSATA. T420 does not use the M.2 kind.

[TimeCoder]

OK,
is this http://www.storagereview.com/kingston_s ... view_240gb will be work in T420 without any problems and magic?
I'm asking, because many of people in Russia forums told me: this slot (WWAN) is using for 3G-modem, and other communication modules, there is no mSATA, and SSD-disk can't work in this slot. I hope they are mistaken.

[ajkula66]

OK,
is this http://www.storagereview.com/kingston_s ... view_240gb will be work in T420 without any problems and magic?

It will work but it's a lousy drive IMO. Is there another mSATA SSD that's available to you?

I'm asking, because many of people in Russia forums told me: this slot (WWAN) is using for 3G-modem, and other communication modules, there is no mSATA, and SSD-disk can't work in this slot. I hope they are mistaken.

They are mistaken indeed.

[bit_twiddler]

Any msata drive will probably work, although I haven't tried that one.
For reference, I have used the following msata drives:

I have a 120 GB BP4, described here, in my T420:
http://mydigitalssd.com/msata-ssd.php#5 ... -msata-ssd

I have an mx200-250gb in my W520:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9258/cruc ... ssd-review

I have a couple of T420s machines that I'm fooling around with,
and might try a Kingston if the price is right. The MX200 is a little
weird in that it behaves differently when nearly full because
it dynamically switches between SLC and MLC.

Unlike just about everybody else on this forum, I boot off the ultrabay,
and sometimes I put an SSD in there for that purpose.

[bit_twiddler]

It will work but it's a lousy drive IMO.

What don't you like about it? Is it TLC?

[ajkula66]

It will work but it's a lousy drive IMO.

What don't you like about it? Is it TLC?

Worse.

SandForce.

[TimeCoder]

Oh, I see. Finally I've chosen this: Plextor PX-512M6S+ (I know this is not mSata, and I have to replace standard HDD in my T420 by this SSD).
Do you like it?

[ajkula66]

Oh, I see. Finally I've chosen this: Plextor PX-512M6S+ (I know this is not mSata, and I have to replace standard HDD in my T420 by this SSD).
Do you like it?

I have a similar (M6 Pro) SSD in my X601T, no complaints.

[theterminator93]

There are actually 2 forms of mSATA. M.2 and plain mSATA. T420 does not use the M.2 kind.

There are actually 2 forms of small form factor SSD. M.2 and plain mSATA.

M.2 is not mSATA, it's M.2. It is one bus standard that supports SSDs, WLAN adapters, WWAN adapters (and other types of expansion cards).

mSATA is a hardware specification that happens to share the mini PCI-e slot form factor. They (m.2 and mSATA) are different and distinct form factors, interfaces, signaling methods, applications...

[jaspen-meyer]

Hi everyone,
I am happy: I've just bought T420 that spent last 5 years in the box. Looks like new! For development (C# .net, Windows 10) I want get more performance with SSD, there is 2 options:
1. Replace current HDD by SSD, put HDD to ultrabay (instead dvd-rom). Use SSD for Windows and Visual Studio, use HDD for source code, docs and etc.
2. Find big SSD (~ 500GB) and store ALL there. Why I am considering this option? Decrease heating and energy consumption.
.

Put 16gb of ram in the machine and set up a 'ram disk'. Write speeds to the ram disk on my X220 are 2.4GB/s with nanosecond latency.

More optimization ideas for C# compiling, include using ram disks:
http://blogs.microsoft.co.il/arik/2011/ ... io-builds/

benchmarks, perhaps dated,
https://www.raymond.cc/blog/12-ram-disk ... ite-speed/