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X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

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Kilkenny
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X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#1 Post by Kilkenny » Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:52 am

There are a lot of reviews of newer ThinkPads out there, but none focused on the kinds of things I am interested in. So, for the sake of Googlers, I will share my thoughts on my new (to me) X250.

First, the specs of my X250
CPU: i7-5600u
display: 1920x1080 IPS non-touch
RAM: 8 GB
disk: 250 GB Samsung 850 EVO
operating system: OpenBSD -current (snapshot dated 4-APR-2016 as of this moment)

The display is excellent, certainly better than most ThinkPads of old. My most modernish laptop was a T420 with the 1600x900 display and the X250 beats it in every conceivable way. Black looks black, not grey or blue. Viewing angles are great. No more tilting the panel to read text on the top of the screen, then tilting it again to read the bottom. There is some backlight bleed, but not enough for me to care. It offers retina-searing brightness levels, which works well for outdoor use.

The aspect ratio is not excellent. I understand there are supply issues that have caused Lenovo to go with a 16:9, but it's really frustrating. Now, vertical space is good with the FHD panel, but it could be even better if it was 16:10, or ideally 4:3. This is a common complaint and no surprise to longtime ThinkPad lovers. For me though, the real advantage of a taller aspect ratio is compactness. If you sit the X250 on a university desk, you'll have less space on either side than with the X201. Again, nothing you need me to tell you, but worth considering.

The keyboard is leaving me with really mixed feelings. The key feel is a bit hard to describe. If you haven't used a chiclet ThinkPad yet, I would ignore all the review sites saying it's wonderful, amazing, or somehow exactly as good as the classic keyboard. It's not. It's an un-bad keyboard. It's actually better than any ultrabook keyboard you can find today. It's light years better than the MacBook Air and similar laptops, which I suspect is why a lot of people rave about it. To me, that's like saying that drowning is great because you're not on fire. In any case, the key travel feels greatly diminished compared to my X201, even if tactile feedback is decent. It does feel solid and doesn't flex when typing. I suspect I can get used to the feeling and won't complain about it a few months from now.

The keyboard layout is a disaster. Things are where you think they are, except when they're not, assuming they're there at all. The forward and back buttons by the arrow keys are page up and page down. These, of course, are now nowhere near the home and end keys, which is frustrating because I typically would use them together when browsing a document or website. The top row is the function keys by default, not the F keys, but this can be trivially switched in the BIOS. I did that immediately once I got tired of hitting F5 to refresh a page and only turning down the screen brightness.

The keyboard is also backlit. This is inferior to the ThinkLight in my opinion, though it is better than nothing. The dimmest setting for the backlighting is too bright. I just want to see the keys, not signal a rescue helicopter. It is nice that the control for this is the Fn+spacebar, so you can always find it even at night. In a pitch dark room, my MacBook Pro required you to innately know which of the F keys doubled as the backlighting control since you couldn't see them. The spacebar is easy to find.

The TrackPoint is fantastic. It's buttons have returned and they are better than before. My X201's TrackPoint buttons were smaller and mushy. Maybe it was due to wear, but I always wondered if they were connected to the chassis by goo. The X250's buttons have a very solid, tactile feel to them. Which is a good thing because...

...the TrackPad is annoying. It's way too small. Sorry, did I say small? I meant enormous. Really enormous. It arrives with its own ZIP code and your property taxes will likely go up. It's also a royal pain because your palm is always on it when you use the TrackPoint. You can disable it in the BIOS allegedly, but I tried that and it still works in OpenBSD anyway. I'm assuming this is either a bug, or it is designed to work in conjunction with the Windows driver since Lenovo never expected you to commit the inconceivable sacrilege of not running Windows. If you like to use the TrackPads you'll be happy, provided you can tolerate the lack of physical buttons. If you primarily use the TrackPoint it's unacceptable.

The build quality is very solid and I don't feel anything rattling, squeaking, flexing, or breaking. The lid has no latch, but it stays down when you want it down, and stays where you put it when it's up. The surfaces don't attract finger smudges. A convenient side effect of a chiclet keyboard is that it is easy to keep clean. It's fairly thin and light, but still offers more ports than most ultrabooks. Only 2 USB ports, which is unfortunate, but at least you still get VGA and ethernet, for those of us who live in the real world and actually use them. The power connector is flat and therefore incompatible with the usual round connector, so you can forget about using your carefully hoarded supply of Lenovo power adapters. This is irritating. Also irritating is that you have to remove the entire bottom panel to get to the hard drive.

I won't spend too much time on performance, since there are tons of benchmarks out there and it really is OS specific. It's fast and I have no complaints at all about it. Battery life is good, and the dual battery system is a great idea. OpenBSD 5.9 and later support Broadwell graphics pretty well, though I have noticed a few graphical glitches that I have not been able to reproduce. Wireless works well for me on -current. All of this should only get better with time.

Overall, it's a very good laptop, but not really a good ThinkPad, which has more to do with what this laptop could have been than with what it is. Too many compromises have been made and too much has been ritually slaughtered on the altar of thinness. It's as if they are trying to attract Apple users without realizing that the customer base for the X series doesn't want a MacBook. Still, it has great performance, great battery life, a superior keyboard by 2016 standards, a great TrackPoint, great build quality, and a great display. If you want a newer ThinkPad and you aren't able or willing to wait for the Retro ThinkPad (if it ever is made), the X250 is still worth buying IMO.
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#2 Post by Pokrzept » Sun Apr 10, 2016 11:30 am

First of all thanks for your effort to describe your personal feelings after few days with new-to-you x250. I'm glad someone of use ThinkPad lovers decided to give it a go and test new platform. TBH I had an offer to buy similarly specced x250 for ~~ 500 bucks, but at the end of the day I did realised it would be another couch laptop just like an x201, x220 and x61. I definitely need at least 14" to work on the lapop. Anyway I'd like to ask if you could compare your new unit with x201 you have/had before. What interests me most is keyboard size. As far as I know 12" keyboards are way smaller than those installed in 14" units. All 12" units in the past had an side-to-side keyboards with a very thin bezel covering it at both ends. Since x240 generation power button and finger print reader has been moved on the right side next to the keyboard and due to that laptops bezel is considerably wider. What's more as you have noticed trackpad is huge now, so there's even less space for the keys. How do you find final effect? Is it still good enough for an long-time use?

When it comes to performance there's not much to compare. When it comes to the 5th generation of Intel Core CPUs they shall be placed in between Sandy and Ivy Bridge counterparts.
P70 / W530 / W700 and 30 more :roll:

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#3 Post by Kilkenny » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:30 am

Pokrzept wrote:First of all thanks for your effort to describe your personal feelings after few days with new-to-you x250. I'm glad someone of use ThinkPad lovers decided to give it a go and test new platform. TBH I had an offer to buy similarly specced x250 for ~~ 500 bucks, but at the end of the day I did realised it would be another couch laptop just like an x201, x220 and x61. I definitely need at least 14" to work on the lapop. Anyway I'd like to ask if you could compare your new unit with x201 you have/had before. What interests me most is keyboard size. As far as I know 12" keyboards are way smaller than those installed in 14" units. All 12" units in the past had an side-to-side keyboards with a very thin bezel covering it at both ends. Since x240 generation power button and finger print reader has been moved on the right side next to the keyboard and due to that laptops bezel is considerably wider. What's more as you have noticed trackpad is huge now, so there's even less space for the keys. How do you find final effect? Is it still good enough for an long-time use?

When it comes to performance there's not much to compare. When it comes to the 5th generation of Intel Core CPUs they shall be placed in between Sandy and Ivy Bridge counterparts.
It's definitely smaller. I haven't noticed any effects on typing due to its size yet though.

From left to right, X201, X250, T42
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj25 ... yk1eey.jpg

X201 on top, X250 on bottom
http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/jj25 ... ogxzl2.jpg


Height of each keyboard measured from top of the F7 key to the bottom of the spacebar
X201: 4.25"
T42: 4.25"
X250: 4"

Width as measured from left edge of CapsLock key to right edge of Enter key
X201: 11.25"
T42: 11.25"
X250: 10.5"

As you can see, the X201 and T42 have the same size keyboard. I didn't include the 7th row in the measurements because the X250 doesn't have one. The X250's keyboard is smaller, despite the laptop itself being 0.5" wider than the X201 (second image above). I don't have a picture of it, but for all intents and purposes, the X250 is actually the same width as the T42. You're right about the power button and fingerprint reader being the cause for this. I think they should have made the trackpad smaller, put the power button along the top, the fingerprint reader next to the trackpad, and extended the keyboard to the edges.
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#4 Post by axur-delmeria » Mon Apr 11, 2016 8:44 am

I think they should have made the trackpad smaller,
WIth all the Apple-chasing Lenovo's been doing, it will never happen. :(
Planned Purchase: T480s i5-8350 FHD Touch
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RIP: X220 4291-C91 X61 7676-A24 760XD-U9E :cry:

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#5 Post by TPFanatic » Mon May 02, 2016 2:53 pm

There may also be antennas hidden inside the gigantic lid bezels Lenovo enjoys building since T61.

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#6 Post by Kilkenny » Tue May 17, 2016 5:09 pm

Well in case anyone was wondering, yes, you can spill a huge glass of water on the X series' keyboard and it will be perfectly fine. :)

I'm glad that's still a feature
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

Kilkenny
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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#7 Post by Kilkenny » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:27 am

After living with the X250 now for several months, I have a few more thoughts on it

Things I thought would annoy me, but don't: Only having 2 USB ports. This is totally dependent on your particular uses, but I have not needed more than 2. Also, the aspect ratio is okay. It's not as good as 4:3, but the FHD panel makes up for it by giving you plenty of space.

Things I thought would be fine, but annoy me: The keyboard. If all you use is an X250, you'll probably eventually be happy with it. But I often use my older ThinkPads and after using a classic keyboard, the X250 feels cramped and awkward. This is the biggest reason why I keep going back to the classics.

Things I knew I would like and still do: The display. It's very good.

Things I knew I would hate and now hate even more: The stupid bottom panel. I guess Lenovo assumed that in today's Brave New World, nobody needs to easily access the hard drive. Or maybe they are trying to appease the false gods of thinness. In any case, pulling out 8 screws and tentatively peeling the panel away from the computer gets very old. It also feels rather flimsy, and I always think I'm going to break it. Swapping a hard drive with an X201 the other day really made me appreciate the HDD caddy design of the earlier ThinkPads.

My hatred for the TrackPad burns as hot as ever. It's just too big, and eliminating the physical buttons makes it more frustrating to use unless you have tap-to-click enabled, which itself is irritating. I wish you could buy this without the TrackPad like you could with the old models.
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#8 Post by kony » Sun Oct 16, 2016 12:13 pm

Kilkenny wrote:
My hatred for the TrackPad burns as hot as ever. It's just too big, and eliminating the physical buttons makes it more frustrating to use unless you have tap-to-click enabled, which itself is irritating. I wish you could buy this without the TrackPad like you could with the old models.
Why not just disable it then? I disabled trackpad on my T430 a day after I bought it in 2013 and basically don't even notice it exists.
My T430 with GTX 560 Ti (Now with GTX 670)
T430: i5-3320m, 8 GB, SSD + HDD, 1600x900.

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#9 Post by w0qj » Mon Oct 17, 2016 1:40 pm

Hey Kilkenny, it is GREAT to have dyed-in-wool ThinkPad'ers trying out the newer Thinkpads!

I also own the X250.

I consider myself as a dyed-in-wool Thinkpad user of both traditional Thinkpads (T42, T410), and also daily user of newer models (X1 Carbon, X250, X230). Don't worry; you will adjust to the changes!

1. I also use the TrackPoint, so I disabled the TrackPad via the BIOS.

2. Keyboard layout: agree with you the newer ThinkPad keyboard layout is less efficient; I also miss the 7-row keyboard layout (I still like the T410 for this reason). But you get used to the new keyboard layout after a while...

3. Chicklet keys: you get used to it after a while, although I also feel that my (touch) typing speed dropped somewhat whenever I use these Chicklet keys.

4. Backlit keyboard: I also prefer Thinklight, where it can shine on the paper *beside* your computer when you are working in semi-darkness. But life goes on, I guess. (And the Backlit keyboard looks cooler!)

5. It is not too difficult opening the X250 bottom panel to access the HDD; I've done this myself also.
Certainly X250 is *much* easier to open than other models like Thinkpad P50 for example...
(This is from someone who had opened the access panels in models T42, T410, X230, X250, X1 Carbon).


In summary, I consider myself as a dyed-in-wool Thinkpad user of both traditional Thinkpads (T42, T410), and also daily user of newer models (X1 Carbon, X250, X230). Don't worry; you will adjust to the changes!
Daily Driver: (X1E3) X1 Extreme 3rd Gen | mobile broadband (WWAN)
Current Thinkpads: X1E3 | X1E1 | X1C10 | X1C9 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X230
Retired Thinkpads: X250 | T410 | T42 | 560 (circa 1996)

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#10 Post by lewdvig » Thu Oct 20, 2016 1:16 pm

I just picked up an X260 and feel the same way as the OP. This is replacing a succession of laptops including a 12" MacBook and Surface Book and Pro. Why? No dongles! Actual ports. And, because this is not a sexy bit of kit to the average consumer I scored a great deal on it second hand.

It's def a Lenovo ThinkPad, it's no IBM, but that is still better than most systems out there for business use in my experience. More and more PC Makers are re-purposing their consumer stuff for business use.

While I wish the X260 was lighter, I am always going into boardrooms with a variety of tech - and sometimes people really want you to use their stuff. There is no substitute for a native port - and this one has pretty much all of the ones I am likely to come across - so the extra weight is worth it.

I have the crap WXGA screen, but that is easily rectified with a $100 eBay purchase. Lenovo should not even make this screen an option because it is garbage.
Current: 2016 Lenovo X260, 2015 MacBook

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#11 Post by Kilkenny » Fri Oct 21, 2016 11:00 am

kony wrote:
Kilkenny wrote:
My hatred for the TrackPad burns as hot as ever. It's just too big, and eliminating the physical buttons makes it more frustrating to use unless you have tap-to-click enabled, which itself is irritating. I wish you could buy this without the TrackPad like you could with the old models.
Why not just disable it then? I disabled trackpad on my T430 a day after I bought it in 2013 and basically don't even notice it exists.
For some reason, disabling it in the BIOS doesn't actually disable it. I'm not sure why. I do still sometimes use it for scrolling because OpenBSD's middle button scrolling is occasionally very choppy. I haven't had time to investigate this either.
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#12 Post by kony » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:21 am

Kilkenny wrote:
kony wrote:
Why not just disable it then? I disabled trackpad on my T430 a day after I bought it in 2013 and basically don't even notice it exists.
For some reason, disabling it in the BIOS doesn't actually disable it. I'm not sure why. I do still sometimes use it for scrolling because OpenBSD's middle button scrolling is occasionally very choppy. I haven't had time to investigate this either.
Then disable it in the OS.

In Terminal:
synclient TouchpadOff=1
My T430 with GTX 560 Ti (Now with GTX 670)
T430: i5-3320m, 8 GB, SSD + HDD, 1600x900.

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#13 Post by Kilkenny » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:18 am

kony wrote:
Kilkenny wrote:
For some reason, disabling it in the BIOS doesn't actually disable it. I'm not sure why. I do still sometimes use it for scrolling because OpenBSD's middle button scrolling is occasionally very choppy. I haven't had time to investigate this either.
Then disable it in the OS.

In Terminal:
synclient TouchpadOff=1
I've actually been running it like that for a few days now and it's okay, but the scrolling is still a bit choppy. It's better with a concave TrackPoint cap though so I might stick with it.
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#14 Post by w0qj » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:02 pm

It's funny you've mentioned it, for our X250 we also used a concave TrackPoint sourced from another (older) ThinkPad model...
Kilkenny wrote: I've actually been running it like that for a few days now and it's okay, but the scrolling is still a bit choppy. It's better with a concave TrackPoint cap though so I might stick with it.
Daily Driver: (X1E3) X1 Extreme 3rd Gen | mobile broadband (WWAN)
Current Thinkpads: X1E3 | X1E1 | X1C10 | X1C9 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X230
Retired Thinkpads: X250 | T410 | T42 | 560 (circa 1996)

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#15 Post by Kilkenny » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:21 pm

w0qj wrote:It's funny you've mentioned it, for our X250 we also used a concave TrackPoint sourced from another (older) ThinkPad model...
Kilkenny wrote: I've actually been running it like that for a few days now and it's okay, but the scrolling is still a bit choppy. It's better with a concave TrackPoint cap though so I might stick with it.
They're fantastic! I had been getting finger stiffness until I switched to one to reduce the force required. I'd never go back now.
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#16 Post by Kilkenny » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:13 am

Well it's been a year. I have switched back to the X201 and gave the X250 away. There are a few reasons for this, most of which I have talked about already.

I never could get used to the keyboard, even after a year. The feeling of the keys was inferior to any classic Thinkpad, but the biggest problem was the layout. It has to be the least ergonomic layout I have used. Between its small size and the fact that nothing is where it feels like it should be, I felt far more at home every time I jumped back on a classic Thinkpad.

The 16:9 aspect ratio and extra width next to the keys made it just wide enough to not fit in my briefcase unless it was horizontal. The X201, with its 16:10 display fits perfectly in either orientation, which gives me more room next to it.

I ended up needing to get to the hard drive a lot more than I expected. Taking off the bottom panel every time got old. I also had to replace the keyboard (my fault), which on the X250 is roughly 100X more annoying than a classic Thinkpad.

There are some things I liked. The battery life was good and I never had to think about whether I was plugged in or not. Performance was fine, but my needs are minimal. I'll also miss the display and the light weight. There are just too many other more important compromises to make these worth it.

Would I buy one again? No. I don't think I would buy any new X-series Thinkpad unless they change the keyboard. I would consider a new T-series because they are larger, but I would definitely have to try it first.
T23, T42, T43p, T60, X201, and T420 all running OpenBSD

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#17 Post by RealBlackStuff » Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:39 am

My current travel (and couch-use) machine is also an X201 with a 1440x900 LED-lid from an X200s.
With a 9-cell Panasonic I get a little over 7 hours out of it with email and moderate browsing.

My plan was to replace it with an X230 with mSATA SSD (in WWAN slot, for OS) and a large HDD for storage.
I modded it with an X220 (classic) keyboard, the FHD mod and an FHD IPS LCD.
It can also use batteries from an X220.
In the end 1920x1080 on a 12.5" screen turned out to be too much for my eyes, so I reduced its resolution to 1600x900.
Compared to the X201 though, this X230 is rather heavy, I'm still not sure if I want to use that modded X230 or stay with the X201.
And I also still have an X200s with 1440x900, a tiny bit slower than the X201, sure, but better battery life (and no touchpad).
And I'm also still not sure if I don't want to switch to an X1C1.
Decisions, decisions...
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
.

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#18 Post by WarMachine » Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am

Hello,

I love this kind of topic. :) Well, this one is a little old but it's always nice to learn about personal feelings, As noticed in the original post, it's not difficult to know the level of performance of a laptop as there are a lot of reviews, but to have actual user impressions is less easy.

I got an X250 yesterday and I used it all day long. I had to deal with batteries problem (veeeeeeeeeeery slow charge). I reinstalled the OS (the last version of W10 professional) and I did all the updates (even those that are not necessary). The problem persisted, I did a BIOS update (I had the 1.22 version) and it seems that everything is fine now (and the BIOS is 1.42, the latest available on the site of Lenovo).

My unit has a i5 5300U, 8 GB RAM, a 2.5" drive (180 GB Intel), the infamous TN HD screen, two batteries (the internal one is almost dead with more than 95 % of wear, the external being a 3-cell battery with 40 % of wear). I also have a german backlit keyboard. The laptop was advertised as a grade B but honestly, it's more like an A one (the only traces of use are on the side of the screen cover, the "skin" is a little peeled. I was astonished by the keyboard, as it shows absolutely no sign of wear. But I'm not sure if it's an original one, because it has backlight but no indicator on the space bar. And the keys are all shiny and grainy. I'll see that when I'll replace it (I've bought, for that, a new AZERTY french original backlit keyboard).Ah, and also: there is no WWAN card nor FPR.

Well, my impressions : as the owner of a T440, it's really smaller (thank you Captain Obvious). What I like is that it's even more sturdy and also lighter (that's what I wanted). I have during a long time hesitated between the X240 and the X250. So long that nowadays, you can find the two models at the same price ! If I had found a real bargain for a X240, I would have chosen it, but it was, when I searched, a bargain for the X250 (99 €). The cool thing is that the buttons are here again (when I did a topic on my T440, I had writen that one of the first things I did was to replace the clunkpad. I won't have to do it, this time. I don't even use it and the first thing I do when I receive a Thinkpad, after pushing the power button, is to go in the BIOS to disable the trackpad.

I'm not particularly annoyed by the fact that the back cover must be removed to access to the disk. If all my Thinkpads (the exception being the 701Cs) have been opened to be cleaned and/or upgraded, it's not something I do everyday. In terms of conception, I prefer the old models, but the newer laptops are easier (but also more fragile, indeed, but I always take extra care with my computers).

As I said, the machine feels really sturdy and doesn't seem to be a fingerprint magnet. As it's a laptop to go outside, I'm not particularly annoyed by the fact there are not a lot of ports. Well, it's not an Apple and when I say "not a lot", it's by comparaison with bigger Thinkpads. For a 12" laptop, there is still plenty of possibilities.If I had a complaint about that, it would be because of the audio Jacks. I miss the separated connectors. If I want to record something, it's always easier to configure the softwares when there is more than one port.

I have had the occasion to talk here and there about the horrible quality of the X220 speakers (well, horrible when I hear something because sometimes, I don't hear anything with my two machines). Today, I won't complain about the speakers of the X250. Of course, you must forget the bass and at the maximum, the sound is a little distorted, but I don't have to be at 3 cm of the laptop to ear something (it's still audible when I'm in another room at 4 or 5 meters of the laptop with a wall in between). The traditional Windows tools to enhance the sound are replaced by a Dolby panel, you can activate or deactivate it. Kinda like on the T430 but without the equalizer (or I haven't found it yet). I'll probably install Equalizer APO but this time not to boost the volume, but to be able to adjust the sound with the equalizer, and to have a little more bass. As I saw that comparisons were made with the X201 (a laptop I also own), I would say the sound is similar, but a little better (less distortion and a very little beefier).

I've noticed that sometimes, the fan is noisy (not an abnormal sound, just a sound of a fan that must do its work). It's not too much, but we don't change the habits, I installed TPFancontrol (the 0.63 version), to silence the laptop. No rotation before 62°C. For the use I have, the temps are between 35 and 58°C.

You were certainly waiting for the impressions about the keyboard. As a long time Thinkpad user and as an heavy writer, the new keyboards almost convinced me to stay away from Lenovo and their newest machines when I learned the existence of them. But the older ones won't be eternal (we are still safe with Windows 10 for now, Windows 11 is not anymore for everyone, and I don't always want to put other systems on my laptops (even if now and then I need to have one with a Linux distribution or a BSD OS). And that's only for the software part. One day, some of the older machines won't be sufficient anymore. Well, I said about the T440 that it was a gift and that we can't refuse a gift. So I was, let's say it that way, forced to use a "new" Thinkpad with chiclet keys.

To be honest, the chiclet part isn't much of a problem, nor the feel when pressing or releasing a key. But, of course, the 6-row is truly abominable.Of course, the letters are at the same place, but the other keys, OMG, what a mess. A lot are missing, are not were they should be and the biggest issue for me is that we have definately lost the numpad. And (even if it wasn't the most ergonomic thing to do) this numpad gave me the possibility to type the code of the Unicode characters. If it's no big deal when I write in english, in french, I can't do without it. I don't have yet a Lenovo machine with a full keyboard, if I would want to use Unicode characters on the X250 or the T440, I see two solutions : have a USB numeric pad, or (and that's what I use) a text file with all the specific characters I need and from which I can copy paste what I need when I write.

I must however admit that there is a little progress between the 30 series and the 40/50 : on the 30s, the function keys were not even separated, just one raw row. And the secondary functions where written in grey (on black keys, what a wonderful choice to see something !). At least, the next generations have again separated groups of function keys, and everything written on the keys is white.

And also, I don't agree with OP when he says that the keyboard is easier to clean : the mecanism used to maintain the keys is so fragile that if you clean the keyboard and if a key is detached, its mecanism will probably be damaged and you won't be able to use it anymore. On the 7-row keyboards, I can without fear detach all the keys to clean everything (on older and dirty machines, it's always necessary), I would fear to damage something with the newer keyboards.

This keyboard is nice for light and not too demanding or complex tasks. It's noticeably more little than the T440 one, and at this time, I still mistype frequently. This review, I write it on my T420s, it wouldn't be as confortable on the X250 (and I'm comfortably installed in the bed and the X250 is in the kitchen, I don't want to move ! :D). If I want to write seriously, I have way better machines around me (you see me coming : my trusty 600E ! :D). Nothing better. But without being so extreme, I think it would even be more comfortable to type on a X31 (the closest to the 600E if we also consider the fact that we must compare the same type of laptop than the X250). Closer to us, the X41 would also be nicer.

Some simple letters say it all : TN HD...
Not something pleasing to use in 2023 (was never really in fact, even 8 years ago). I'll be replacing it soon by an FHD IPS display. TN is bad, HD is bad, that's not new. And the one on the X250 is no exception.

With all I said about the keyboard, one could think I don't like this machine. Well, I don't like its keyboard as much as I like the old ones (who does ? :p), but again, for light use, it won't be a problem. I think this machine is nice. I like its sturdiness, its compacity, its weight, the autonomy is huge (I have three spare 6-cell external batteries, one with 15 % of wear, the other with 21 % of wear and the last one with 55 % of wear). And with the second, wi-fi activated and brightness to the minimum, Windows (and BatteryInfoView) give me 14 hours of use. I have enough ports if necessary, the performances are above what I need at the moment (I used the laptop to browse the Internet, to watch movies, to listen to music and to do light writing). I know I can even, if i want, play some old games (Quake III, of course, but also Vanilla WoW and the WoTLK extension, DooM³ and Painkiller).

With the last BIOS, I know I can install a 16 GB stick (it's possible since the 1.12 BIOS version). But the prices are not reasonable (around 150 € when a 8 GB stick is found at 50 €). If someone is interested, the Crucial CT204864BF160B has been reported to work fine (if one day I'm rich... ! :D).

:)

W.

EDIT : writing on the X250 this time. Something to add : not a big deal for me, as I said I didn't need much the USB ports, but it's not convenient that they are on each side of the laptop. It's the same about the T440. I remember once, I had to use a external DVD drive and this model only runs if connected to two USB ports. And of course, you only have one cable with an extension for the second port and the length of the extension doesn't allow to plug it on the other side of the computer.

EXTRA EDIT :) : the Crucial CT204864BF160B works fine and on my X250 and on my T450s.
Last edited by WarMachine on Sat Sep 16, 2023 12:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#19 Post by dr_st » Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:27 am

WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
I love this kind of topic. :) Well, this one is a little old but it's always nice to learn about personal feelings, As noticed in the original post, it's not difficult to know the level of performance of a laptop as there are a lot of reviews, but to have actual user impressions is less easy.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. ;)
WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
I'm not particularly annoyed by the fact that the back cover must be removed to access to the disk. If all my Thinkpads (the exception being the 701Cs) have been opened to be cleaned and/or upgraded, it's not something I do everyday. In terms of conception, I prefer the old models, but the newer laptops are easier (but also more fragile, indeed, but I always take extra care with my computers).
The single bottom cover panel approach has tradeoffs. It makes it harder to access simple FRUs (drive, RAM, sometimes WiFi), as you now need to remove multiple screws instead of 1, but it makes it easier to access the deeper internals, as you only need to remove the one cover, instead of multiple panels, and often internal covers, etc.

Not all back covers are equally easy to manage. I dealt with X1 Carbon Gen5/Gen6 (same chassis) and it comes off very easily and cleanly. On the T470/T480/TP25, removal of the cover requires unlatching multiple stubborn clips, some of which are very easy to break, and even if you don't break anything, there is a risk of getting the plastic warped so that it will leave a gap when put back together.
WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
To be honest, the chiclet part isn't much of a problem, nor the feel when pressing or releasing a key. But, of course, the 6-row is truly abominable.Of course, the letters are at the same place, but the other keys, OMG, what a mess.
Well, keep pestering Lenovo about it, over Twitter, Reddit and what not - maybe if enough independent users contact them about it, it will eventually sync in that there is a market for 7-row keyboards.
WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
On the 7-row keyboards, I can without fear detach all the keys to clean everything (on older and dirty machines, it's always necessary), I would fear to damage something with the newer keyboards.
Provided that you pull from the right direction, and don't end up breaking them like yours truly. 🤦‍♂️
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#20 Post by TPFanatic » Sun Feb 05, 2023 11:48 am

I've gotten myself a Yoga 260 (branded S1) with a mobo-fault that prevents the touchscreen from working, so I use it as an overweight ultra portable. Turns out it is very slightly thinner than the contemporary regular X-series so I guess I got myself one of the thinnest Thinkpads. It is quite nice to move around and it has a good keyboard as all Thinkpads do. That 6 row tho.

I do strongly more favor the 7 row machines and maybe its an illusion but the Ivy Bridge platform feels a lot faster than Sandy Bridge. So I'm getting into more 7 row swaps on *30 gens, which sadly breaks the ease of sliding out the keyboard. I need to use spudgers or flatblades to get the keyboards out now.

I rather trim away the *30 series palmrest (and in T430's case, some magnesium) to adopt the 7 row than mutilate the precious 7 row.

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#21 Post by WarMachine » Mon Feb 06, 2023 5:28 pm

dr_st wrote:
Sun Feb 05, 2023 10:27 am
WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
I love this kind of topic. :) Well, this one is a little old but it's always nice to learn about personal feelings, As noticed in the original post, it's not difficult to know the level of performance of a laptop as there are a lot of reviews, but to have actual user impressions is less easy.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. ;)
WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
I'm not particularly annoyed by the fact that the back cover must be removed to access to the disk. If all my Thinkpads (the exception being the 701Cs) have been opened to be cleaned and/or upgraded, it's not something I do everyday. In terms of conception, I prefer the old models, but the newer laptops are easier (but also more fragile, indeed, but I always take extra care with my computers).
The single bottom cover panel approach has tradeoffs. It makes it harder to access simple FRUs (drive, RAM, sometimes WiFi), as you now need to remove multiple screws instead of 1, but it makes it easier to access the deeper internals, as you only need to remove the one cover, instead of multiple panels, and often internal covers, etc.

Not all back covers are equally easy to manage. I dealt with X1 Carbon Gen5/Gen6 (same chassis) and it comes off very easily and cleanly. On the T470/T480/TP25, removal of the cover requires unlatching multiple stubborn clips, some of which are very easy to break, and even if you don't break anything, there is a risk of getting the plastic warped so that it will leave a gap when put back together.
WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
To be honest, the chiclet part isn't much of a problem, nor the feel when pressing or releasing a key. But, of course, the 6-row is truly abominable.Of course, the letters are at the same place, but the other keys, OMG, what a mess.
Well, keep pestering Lenovo about it, over Twitter, Reddit and what not - maybe if enough independent users contact them about it, it will eventually sync in that there is a market for 7-row keyboards.
WarMachine wrote:
Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:47 am
On the 7-row keyboards, I can without fear detach all the keys to clean everything (on older and dirty machines, it's always necessary), I would fear to damage something with the newer keyboards.
Provided that you pull from the right direction, and don't end up breaking them like yours truly. 🤦‍♂️
Hello,

Glad to participate to this topic and I thank you for the thoughts you left too. :)
I wanted to do an update about the X250 as I received the Full HD display I purchased.

It wasn't advertised as new so I feared little signs of wear. But this screen is like new. And it only cost me 35 € (the laptop itself 99 €). And I'm waiting for a french backlit keyboard I also paid 35 €. That gives me nice laptop for 175 € (and I haven't seen one at this price with such configuration). That makes me happy. :)

Back to the screen : it's night and day compared to the original screen (TN and HD). The model I purchased is the LP125WF2-SPB2 (I knew it was a viable option for this laptop and as always, when buying this type of product, we must be careful to receive the exact same model as advertised). It led me to choose an aftermarket screen (the new was too expensive, more that the laptop itself). The seller only had an unit of this screen and the pics clearly showed the reference (and the description too). Seems I did the good choice ! :)

I feared that Full HD on 12.5" would be too high. Because I'm older and older as the years go by ! :D Well, my eyes are still good (if I'm not tired). When I started the laptop after installing the new screen, Windows had zoomed automatically to 125 %. I changed back to 100 %. It's very little but so crisp that it's still comfortable. I just saw a little white discoloration at the right of the center, but it's nearly invisible. Colors are delicious ! :D I always use NightShift so that the blue doesn't kill my eyes, it's very effective. I'm not particularly picky about the resolutions and I consider that to be able to use comfortably a screen for what I do of my laptops and PC in general, I must have a minimum of 1400x1050 or 1440x900. I couldn't keep the HD screen (I also changed it on the T420, on the T440, and I did the swap on my T410 with an original 1280x800 screen, and also on one of my T4x, for the exact same reasons).

It was easy to replace the screen, it took me less than five minutes :
  • restart the laptop ;
  • go in the BIOS and disable the internal battery ;
  • shutdown the laptop ;
  • take off the screen bezel ;
  • lift the screen and put it on the keyboard ;
  • peel off the adhesive above the eDP connector ;
  • lift the retention metallic system ;
  • unplug the connector ;
  • plug the new screen ;
  • put back the metallic thing and the adhesive ;
  • put everything back in the A-cover ;
  • put back the bezel.
The most difficult is to put back the bezel, because of the eDP cable. I still haven't figured out how tu put it correctly. So it's not perfectly against the screen above the left hinge, but it's barely visible. I will have a closer look when I change the keyboard.

:)

W.
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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#22 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Feb 07, 2023 3:00 am

There are many Parts Removal and Replacement Videos from Lenovo.
They include X230s, X240, X240s, X260, X270 and X280, but for some bizarre reason NO X250!
Maybe this youtube helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7evwppI0Eo0
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
.

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Re: X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#23 Post by WarMachine » Tue Feb 07, 2023 6:18 am

Hi,

Thanks for the links. The Youtube video is the one I've just watched before seeing your reply ! :D
But it was a bit blurry and I didn't see exactly how the guy was putting the cable.

But the video on Lenovo : https://download.lenovo.com/lts/RTPW120 ... DPanel.mp4

Here we clearly see the guy adjusting the cable (and mine is also on this position, it's its "natural" position. I think it's better to look again when I'll change the keyboard, I'll disassemble everything, that'll be easier.

:)

W.
701Cs| 755Cs| 560| 600E| T23| X20| X24| X31| T30| R30| T41p| T42| T43| X41
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X250 review by an old school ThinkPad fan

#24 Post by WarMachine » Fri Feb 10, 2023 9:59 am

Hello,

I have received the french keyboard, new like advertised, exactly as I was imagining it, with soft keys and a LED logo on the space key. The feeling is very nice.

I took my time, it was the first disassembly of the laptop and I have been extra careful. The most difficult was the trackpad cable, it's so tiny, and glued to the keyboard cables. But everything went well (I had already disassembled the T440 and the systems are similar (but definately easier on the T).

What a pleasure to type, the new keyboard is even better than the other, that was already good. What a pity it's only a 6-row! :D

I've also bought a sleeve (I had the one of my 600E - yes, I still have it). I went to the supermarket in town and there wasn't a lot of choice, but I found a nice bag, an HP one :
https://www.dustin.be/fr/sacoches-dordi ... -12015990/

It says that it's adapted to a 14", but I tried the T440 and it doesn't fit, not even the X301... The X250 floats just a little and that's perfect, you don't damage the sleeve when you take the laptop out or put it inside. And the pocket on the side is just what needed for an additionnal battery. :) But what I like the most is that there is a handle. It's difficult to find a slim sleeve with one.

W.

EDIT : the T440s and the T450s can also enter the sleeve.
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