I just got off the phone with an IBM/Lenovo support specialist who told me that they no longer send out recovery media for free. My thinkpad is less than a month old and I was under the impression that they would send out recovery media for free if the notebook is less than 30 days old. Is this true?

Well, it depended. If your system had undergone a fault such that only the RnR disk set could help before you actually had the chance to make them, then IBM/Lenovo would be sympathetic to your problem and would send you a set free of charge.

Yet I don't think that they did that on a regular basis if you just went up to them and asked "Could I have a free recovery CD set?"

You can always make a set yourself.

FYI - not only are these babies NOT free - they want $45 for the silly things.

I installed Vista on my machine - over writing the recovery partition (not intentionally) and figured "no biggie" I'll just get the disks.

Guess again.

If Vista wasn't a couple months away - I would be more likely to grab them - but I figure they have limited value once Vista is released.

Makes my blue button pretty worthless though

Which is why I always recommend making the disk set as one of the first things you do when you get the Thinkpad.

That way, even if they don't work later, you can use that as a real excuse and say "Well, I made them and they don't work for some reason" if you *really* need to.

I do, of course, recommend checkingthem right after you make them so you are sure they work.

Begin Rant;

I understand the need to cut costs, but when you pay $2,000+ for a notebook I would hope that factory pressed recovery CD's would come with the notebook. The lifespan of a burned CD completely depends on the quality of the media it is on and, if I remember correctly, burned media's life span is quite a bit shorter than the life span of a factory pressed CD. Is this not a reasonable request?

End Rant;

I realize that this is a growing trend in the PC world and that Lenovo is not alone in this policy. As a consumer I find policies like this to be petty and cheep.

I got recovery CD's for my own two machines and most of my client machines in the first 30 days of ownership (and when, in fact, IBM owned the business). I have had to use these CD's, most recently when the original install went bad more than 30 months in on my NetVista desktop. I was very glad I *had* the CD's.

I think several things:

1. The recovery routine in the CD's I have is *not* repeatable. It can work different ways when run different times, and it can run so as to fail. This needs to be fixed.

2. Recovery CD's are better factory-pressed than do-it-yourself, so they should come with the machine.

2a. If we have to pay for 2, so be it, but at least be practical in the charge (cost recovery only).

3. Lenovo should keep the ability to press new CD's for all models for six years. My IBM PC 300 PL in the basement was new in 1999 and runs just fine. It has a processor upgrade and a newer, faster hard drive, and there is no reason to scrap it. I should be able to get CD's to image it if I so need.

... JD Hurst

IMHO when you spend 2000+ on a system, you should get CD's out of principle, either in the box (ideally) or on request at least 1 time free of charge.

They likely did this because they know people have problems, and when their computer doesn't work and they need it, they will gladly pay $45 to get running again. It's just taking advantage.

I'd expect that from a budget PC company like Dell, but not from IBM/Lenovo.

Apple thankfully doesn't do this... My Mac Mini even came with a DVD (not a bunch of CD's) that makes reinstalls so smooth.

I also think it doesn't speak highly of customer services when they are unwilling to provide CDs replacement or not to their customers... they're CDs... they cost practically nothing these days.

It is a courtesy that should be upheld.

Think of it this way.....they already spent considerable money on r&d having the restore partition created so you could restore with the thinkvantage tools. You should have made backups. I have CDR's from seven years ago that work just fine. That's certainly longer than the lifespan of a notebook.

Think of it this way... if you've spent the pounds why skimp on the pennies?

I guess if they did ship CD's with every machine they'd have to have a factory to create that huge number of discs. They should send a set with each new machine though. A lot of people probably don't find out they can make a set until they are already involved in troubleshooting to get out of a jam.

CD's in paper sleeves cost virtually nothing to print, especially in bulk. The cost comes from licensing the content (which IBM/Lenovo has to ship the image anyway).

I think it's just an extra $45 they make when people are in a tough place, and that's their only fix.

It all comes down to shaving every cent possible. No recovery CDs gets them a break not only on the cost but also probably from Microsoft on the OEM license fees. Plust they get kickbacks from Symantec, Google, etc. for the preloaded software -- once to put it on, and again for products like Symantec's if people "upgrade" to a paid subscription when the trial expires. Did you also notice how little paper documentation comes with your new ThinkPad? A few more pennies saved...
We're counting our pennies, and they do too. But I agree that $45 for recovery disks is absolutely ludicrous. At the very least there should be a red banner across the keyboard when you unpack the machine telling you that this is what it will cost you if you don't make your recovery disks ASAP. But the banner will probably cost 8 cents and putting it on will cost another 15 cents...

Is creating recovery dvd's different than creating a set of backup dvd's?

I ran the backup utility and it created a set of 3 discs; a bootable dvd, and then two additional dvd's that I assume contain the OS and all files, etc.

Am I correct that in the event of a future FUBAR that I should be able to insert these discs and restore my notebook to that previous state?

I just want to make sure I made the right set of discs.

thx.

Yes, creating recovery CD's or DVD's is different than creating backup discs.

A backup creates a backup of your current configuration, including software and data (personal) files. You can do as many backups as you like.

The recovery disc set restores your hard drive or a new hard drive with the software as it came from the factory. Nothing you add after you receive your ThinkPad will be on the recovery disc set.

To create the Product Recovery Disc set, the procedure varies a little depending upon the version of Rescue and Recovery that is installed. Go to Start > All Programs > Access IBM > Create Recovery Discs or (IIRC) Start > All Programs > ThinkVantage > Create Recovery Media > Product Recovery. You can only do this one time unless you perform a Restore to Factory Contents. Then you can do it once again.

I think also, that they probably don't send out the recovery CDs themselves because that involves more painful license wheeling and dealing with Microsoft for the Windows operating system. Just like they don't hand out recovery CDs for systems that shipped with Windows 2000 or Windows 98 preloaded. Rather, I think they still want to give the user the option of doing an on-drive restore as well as the ability to have the CD set by making themselves. I can see how just such an action would nicely get around some sticky licensing points. I think I posted about this somewhere here before but, ehhh, licensing, MS OEM or site licensing, is a pain anyway 99.9% of the time.

I would think it would be mostly a licensing issue with MS. OEM license allows for one copy, thats the hidden partition that Lenovo configures their systems with. MS license also allows for a consumer to make 1 backup copy of their OS for safety purposes, thats the 'Create Recovery Media' option that Lenovo also provides. Based on MS licensing and Lenovo's choice to offer us the remote reload of the OS, they can't give away Recovery Media. This would also explain why once the 'Create Recovery Media' option is run, its removed. Licensing.


Note, I found out that you can Create Recovery Media using 1 CD and 1 DVD if you have a multiburner. I dont need to create 7 or 8 CDs, just 1and1. Because the systems dont understand bootable DVDs, u gotta use at least 1 CD to use for your bootdisk, but the other CD images will fit on 1 DVD.




T

Bingo.

License agreements prevent Lenovo from providing a recovery cd set in the box, because they already preload a copy in the recovery partition AND allow the user to make their own backup copy. Obviously, if someone is careless enough to blow the image away without making the discs, there is going to be financial concequence for doing so.

You can't just call up and say "hey buddy send me some free discs!" but if your recovery partition has failed and you cannot recover the system, you are certainly entitled to a copy at no charge ONCE. For all others, the $45 is actually the shipping and handling charge for the disc creation and shipment via expedited service (since a manufacturer cannot charge for an OS a second time again according to MS rules).

MG.

I remember back in the old days when recovery CDs could be sent for free within the first month I think. There was also an option where a CD drive would be sent as well and the user would connect it up to reload from.

that was also a time when the 'creating recovery media' option was not available, allowing per the license to send you a set, now that they provide the option 'create recovery media', they would be prohibited from doing so per that said same license.


T