Ok, so here's the dilemma/situation.

My parents just got a motor home and are thinking about getting a laptop to take with them. I'd put minimum requirements/needs down and I'd like to hear from ya'll about what models you think they can get away with.

Price: I'd say sub $500 for sure, with sub $400 being even better.

Condition: Used is perfectly fine if the device is in good shape.

LCD: Bright and nice would be a plus, my dad's eyes are not so
good.

Network: Wireless would be a plus, but they could get by without it.

Battery: Need to have some mobility but we're not talking 8 hours of battery life needed.

OS: XP would be ideal. Anything other than that is going to make my life hell teaching them how to get around.

Drives: CD drive or a cheap included dock with one built in is almost a necessity.

Weight/size: Pretty darn flexible.

Ok, thoughts? I really like the ruggedness/quality of my and my girlfriend's laptop (T61 for me, and I think I got her a T60, I forget) and that will be a big plus for mom and dad as well. Any ideas of what to look for in the forums/ebay and I'll feel like a much better informed consumer.

Thanks
D

you might want to keep an eye out for when this is complete: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=67779
not sure where the price will end up, but the a31p, especially the uxga flexview, is a very capable machine. heck, they fly on the iss!

Yea, I noticed that thread, not quite sure I understand the "why" around the rebuild, or the funding... But yea I will. Thanks.

Any other models/types/builds you might recommend? It had crossed my mind to get an ultra portable (not super powerful) TP for myself and give mine (T61) to them. So if there's one model that stands out as far as used/light/handy/wireless that might apply as well.

Your parents would be well served with a T23.
These are real workhorses and seem to be almost everyone's favorite.
I have some T23s with built-in wifi, with 14.1" XGA or SXGA+, up to 1GB of RAM, 40GB 5400rpm HD, pre-installed with Windows XP-Pro/SP3 and all the IBM/Lenovo programs, CD, DVD or DVD/CDRW,
1.13 or 1.20GHz PIII-mobile CPU and AC-adapter.
We're talking $200 - $260 depending on configuration.
Shipping is $15.- incl. insurance anywhere in CONUS.
PM me if interested.

If your parents eyes aren't very good, definitely stick to an XGA screen. Anything higher will be hard for them to read. While a T23 would definitely suit there needs, prices for T40s have dropped so low that they're almost the same price and have a good boost in performance. I bet they'd love a 15" XGA T42.

Problem with a lot of T4x machines is a loose (ATI) GPU, which causes NO display.

The A31p is indeed a very fine machine. If UXGA is too high a resolution for your parents, then I'd suggest looking for something with a 15" SXGA+ screen (depending on the model they even come in IPS/Flexview, which is a nice bonus but I wouldn't put it on your requirements list). I'd suggest looking at the R50, R51, R52 line of models (or even the R60, which may be found for under $500) - usually they are somewhat cheaper than the comparable T4x (though bigger and heavier).

SXGA+ and UXGA make the text much smaller than XGA. Just get an R or T series with 15 inch XGA screen. Your dad will love it.

I was thinking, 12.1" X something with the XGA screen would be fine for his parents eyes.

I too was going to suggest something like a high-end X2 system; X22 or X24. The drawbacks are the small display (12" XGA) and the requirement of the media slice (aka UltraBase) for an optical drive. But compared to a T2 or T4, it's much smaller and lighter (w/o the slice). Such a system should be available for less than $200. If you are willing to spend a little bit more money, then an X31 has about the same footprint but has better performance (faster CPU, more maximum memory, USB 2.0, etc.).

For the environment it will be in, I cannot recommend any T4 system that doesn't have integrated graphics. There's too much of a chance that the vibration and/or temperature extremes (think: closed-up vehicle in the summertime) will accelerate a GPU issue. For ruggedness alone, I'd vote for a 600X but it's fairly slow when paired with XP, even with maximum memory.

also, keep an eye out for underclocker's fs items like this one: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=68134
i picked up a similar t43 for my father in july. really nice in every way and quite snappy with xp. as Ray mentioned above, the intel integrated graphics models might be best in your case.

Speaking from experience, I've given my mother and father in laws many choices over the years, they both feel that a 15" XGA screen is most comfortable. They are both around 60 years old. They won't give back a 15" XGA R51.

That being said, I'd opt for one of the following, based on price range (only the 15" XGA or 15.4" WXGA models);

$100 - $200 --> A30 or A31
$200 - $300 --> R50, R51, R52
$300 - $400 --> T42, T43, Z60m, R60
$400+ --> T60, Z61m, R61

My overall best value pick would be an R60. These are either Celeron, Core Solo or Core Duo machines in a great price range. The Celeron models can easily be upgraded to Core Solo or Core Duo for as little as $25.

The real issue with machines below the R5x models is that they don't have the benefits of modern machines - cool CPU's like Pentium M, USB 2.0 (for fast digital camera data transfer, etc.), included G wifi (or easily added), and longer battery life.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=69014

Get a newer battery, and you're gold.

Recently, I was in a somewhat similar situation as you are now; I wanted to get a ThinkPad for my Mother (she is 79, and wanted to come "online"!). Since I am personally very, very satisfied overall with T42's, I ended up getting her a 15" T42 with the beautiful FlexView/IPS (resolution SXGA+), as discussed in the thread WTB: T42 w/15” SXGA+ LCD (FlexView) & fingerprint-reader. Note: I would not recommend getting an UXGA laptop; the font will simply be too small for elderly people... (different, lower resolution can be set, but will look ugly - notebooks in my experience always looks best with resolution set to that of the native LCD).

In my opinion a 15" LCD with SXGA+ resolution, and with the DPI ("Dots Per Inch") set to 115 % and using Large Fonts (and enabling "ClearType"), is as perfect as it comes on a laptop for "older adults" (seniors!). A further benefit of the SXGA+ FlexView/IPS LCD is that it is perfect for watching DVD's (and/or TV for that sake, perhaps via some PCMCIA/CardBus interface like e.g. one of these - perhaps this?).

One note: You say that your dad's eyes are not so good anymore; this would make me consider the Panasonic Toughbook's since they are (also) intended for outdoor usage and have very high brightness LCD's (I don't have the actual specification for the nits at hand; but check that out). I don't know how high Toughbooks go, however, so this might not be an option? The newest ThinkPad's (T400's/T550's etc.) are becoming available with LED backlight LCD's, which are very bright (capable of high intensity!) compared to previous ThinkPad's... so these would perhaps be an interesting option if your budget was unlimited! Anyway, I suggest you consider if your parents new laptop shall also be possible to use outdoor... if so, many ThinkPad's may not be the best choice, owing to the "limited" LCD intensity.

All the best of luck and success with this noble project!

Johan

Wow, great replies, I'll get to each in turn.. kinda busy now with the PC build I'm doing.. having a drive not want to move from an older PC to a newer one... saying my data in NTFS is messed up.. not pretty. Thanks and I haven't forgot about this thread.

EDIT: Ok, that personal issues is resolving itself. Now to the helpful comments.

Resolution issues are important, but coupled with that is screen size requirements as well. I'm afraid that rules out the X series unless I'm mistaken (plus the NEED for a docking bay also seals the kill). I think Dad needs something bigger than that, I might be mistaken or just inexperienced with small screen laptops, but that would be pushing it for him I think.

So, that means XGA or SXGA, fifteen inch models. It sounds like the consensus is that there is not a huge difference in these two screens.. how noticable is this going to be in real life? XGA preferred with SXGA accepted is my current thinking. I want to be flexible where possible.

Integrated GPU also seems to be the common idea, would they be able to watch a DVD easily with most of these setups, integrated vs discreet (not a requirement, just asking)? That's the most intensive graphical usage this machine will EVER be put to, and even then probably not often, just a nice feature to have I suppose.

Underclocker's list of price range breakdowns is very appropriate and helpful... thanks for that. I don't think they are going to be in need of duos or anything like that, a cooler cpu would be nice but by no means required.

Johan's exact setup layout for setting up a SXGA screen is also much appreciated. As far as toughbooks/brightness goes: I don't see them using this outside in direct sun much. They aren't that kind of people. This will be used under normal interior conditions 99% of the time. Brightness is an issue as normal usage goes but no farther.

Aight, I'm more educated so let me put up some "in theory" sales, even if they've closed, that would have fit the bill and ya'll judge my choices. By the way, I hate to admit this, but I tend to skip low post count sellers... It's just my nature, I NEED good rep/info/posts. If anyone with those qualifications backs up somebody with a low post count, I could consider them, but it just seems risky to me.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=69012

[Underclocker if you see this: how visible are these LCD flaws, I'm anal but I think my parents are going to be less picky about things like this than I am.]

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=68526

[Even has flexview that someone recommended, I wonder if the damaged ones would be an option since the prices seem, appropriately maybe, a bit high]

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=68226

Ok, rate my choices, blast me if I've overlooked something or tell me I'm dead on. I'll be watching the FS forums and have already made a few transactions there so I'm not a "here today / gone tomorrow" type of poster. It just seems like the prices here are incredible, or I'm just out of the loop or not familiar with used laptop pricing. Moreover, the people (example this post) are very helpful and, seemingly so far anyway, reliable/trustworthy. Help in this thread will be remembered [*wink* underclocker and others].

Thanks again,
D

I'll give you an excellent eBay option...

Very nicely equipped Z61m Core Duo for $425 --> http://cgi.ebay.com/IBM-Z61M-160GB-HDD- ... 0301727288

(My opinion on which of the three machines you listed to purchase would be biased.)

I'll give you another thought on the screen resolution vs. type vs. size equation. I've been dealing with my wife's laptops through 4 generation now, and how this relates to your situation is that she has very poorly correctable eyesight due to astigmatism as well as near-sightedness etc. As few years ago I had her on a 15" XGA res. A21, then on to an A30 of the same Res. When we moved her up to an A31, I decided to try her at an SXGA+ resolutilon thinking that if it proved to be too much, I'd put the XGA panel in the machine. It turned out that it was fine and then when I upgraded her this summer to an R52 with a flexview SXGA+ panel, it was a match made in heaven. The resolution was fine, but the added benefit for her of having the better panel was the magic bullet.

I've spent a fair amount of time in a trailer/motor home and have a pretty good idea of what that environment can be like. Therefore, I'd be my humble recommendation that an R Series, with an 15" SXGA+ screen would almost be ideal. In a best case scenario, it would be a Flexview panel, although I don't see it as a "deal-breaker". In my experience with the Senior set, I find that they generally don't like to have a bunch of attachments to add or to be hanging off (especially in a somewhat crowded situation) and therefore, anything that would require external drives or media slices could potentially be frustrating. I'd agree with some others to say that a relatively recent machine such as an R5x or R6x would be more appropriate given such thing as built-in wireless and USB 2.0 given that I'm going to guess that they'll be taking lots of pictures and the faster connection would be of great benefit. Although I personally love the A31s, their bulk and weight make them somewhat difficult to handle as well as the fact that they don't have the UltraNav option which is more comfortable to use for some folks.

Well, I pulled the trigger.

I ended up purchasing a T42 15" SXGA+ Flexview from Brad. It should be here later in the week, and I'm excited about comparing it to the LCD on my current T61. We'll see how it goes. Thanks again all.

I'll be spending the first few days with it setting it up for them and making it as "dummy" proof as possible. Any ideas? Here's the general gameplan I have done in the past (and have in mind for them):

========================================
Install Firefox w/addons such as NoScript, Adblock Plus (w/Filterset.G Updater), and possibly a few others.

Install MS Office or OpenOffice. Remove the parts of it that they will never use (Publisher, Access, etc).

Config the Start menu/clock/display properties to what I deem is most efficient for them.

Setup the battery management software as best I can for their needs/wants.

Install VLC Media Player and set it as default viewer for most, if not all, video/audio formats.

Install Foxit Reader and set as default for pdf.

Install 7-zip and set as default for zip/rar/etc.

... Drawing a blank at the moment as to what else I'll need to do. Perhaps Skype if the model has a built in mike, but I'm not sure that it does or that they will ever use that feature.

=========================================

Any other ideas? I'm kinda a slacker as far as rescue and recovery / partition setups. If you want to steer me in the right direction that would be great.

Thanks again to all that helped inform me on what to do to help out my parents.

Hello, sounds like you have done some homework to ensure satisfied family users.

VLC is nice, but they may need some instruction on selecting music files for playback.

Do your parents zip that much? As I recall, XP will unzip, but I do not remember for sure.

Foxit is very nice. Good replacement for the bloated Adobe.

Office 2007 is really nice. Introduce them to OneNote (part of Office. It's a wonderful note taker)

The NUMBER ONE thing to have on the machine is a good imaging program like Ghost or Acronis.

I have a friend who caught a drive-by malware, and I simply re-imaged the machine to get rid of it.

Then her son munged the system by messing around, and in a few minutes that was overwritten with a good image.

You parents don't have to learn how to use the imaging program, just make sure you have a boot disk as a last resort, although the imaging application will usually restore right out of Windows (with a re-boot)

I also suggest that they keep their documents on a second partition for ease of backup and disaster recovery.

Have fun!

^ +1 on the advice about creating an image of the disk. You don't necessarily have to install an imaging program. If you have DVD burner, just provide them with a set of DVDs of the system as it was delivered. I've been doing this with some systems in the last couple of months. I use a Ghost 2003 boot floppy and an Ultrabay DVD burner. Once the hard drive is completely setup with all of the current Windows updates and programs installed and configured just right, I boot the Ghost floppy and tell it to write the disk image to the DVD drive. I can usually get away with just two single layer DVD+RW disks, even without invoking compression. If anything goes wrong with their disk drive (besides a catastrophic hardware failure), they can simply boot the first DVD (it will have a copy of the Ghost boot floppy on it) and restore the system that way. With the Ghost images on DVD, you don't even need to be able to boot into Windows.

Also, you should install some sort of low-maintenance virus and/or spyware program. I've been using AVG Free 8.0 for several months and it seems to be pretty easy on the system and does its updates quietly.

Good call on all fronts.

One: I'm installing 7-zip for the sole reason that it is (in my opinion) much easier to use and manipulate than the built in winzip or wtf ever it is called.

Two: Good call about the music files... have to think on how to word that to them.

Three: Even I'm unfamiliar with OneNote, I've heard good things, but I'm kinda set in my ways and haven't tried it yet. "note taker" I use a stickynote program... is that what you mean it is?

Four (and most importantly): I guess I'll need to learn the ins and outs of Ghost. I know OF such software and the benefits (as you both emphasize) are huge. I'll have to look into it and do something about it.

Last: How to go about setting up a "data only" partition so as no data is lost on a recovery (and for ease of data backup/management)? Partition Magic perhaps?

I am not here to promote brands, but there are certain programs that I have used for years with great success, and therefore recommend.

OneNote is a daily journal/classroom note taking/general information storage program. It is very user friendly and versatile for inserting graphics and all sorts of things. It is wonderfully easy to find things, using the Windows Search feature. (Search works well now, by the way...bugs cleared out)
I mention OneNote because you said you may install MS Office on your parent's machine. If you don't the built in XP WordPad is pretty good. You can insert graphics and use the XP old style search to find things. Just put all the Word Pad docs in one folder.

I use Acronis True Image for image backups and Acronis Disk Director for partitioning. They WORK, and I have used them for years. Disk Director is a fast way to create and resize partitions without losing data or disturbing the operating system.

True image will run right out of Windows. Well worth the $40.00 for each. I have tried other imaging and partitioning programs and found them to be too "geeky" and confusing for my little brain.

@ usernotabuser:

First and foremost : Congratulations with your new T42! As a long-time T42/p user myself, I am certain that you will enjoy the beautiful, aesthetically pleasing design of T42's... slim, elegant (with the classical "red stripes"!), low-noise, high-performance for all normal office tasks (writing, browsing the internet, e-mailing etc. etc.).. and not to forget, ooh boy, the beautiful 15" FlexView/IPS LCD!! Wow, you better get ready to a love affair!

OK, to get to the point; what I wanted to share is how I configured the identical T42 that I recently got for my mother (mentioned in the thread above); I did exactly as you: Received it, set it up, used it for a couple of weeks to see that all worked OK and then handed it to her - and she has been very pleased with it!

So, here we go; this is what I did; these are the programs I installed:

Windows XP Pro SP2 (from the IBM R&R media), and then I used Windows Update to do its thing (updating a lot!), but I did specifically NOT install SP3 as it has been reported to have caused a lot of problems with WLAN etc. for may ThinkPad users - so if you choose to install SP3, I suggest you consider making an image of your SP2 installation, so that you can easily roll back if SP3 also causes troubles to you.

I then used the Lenovo System Update to automatically update all T42 drivers, programs etc. (note that System Update require that you have Microsoft .NET ver. 2.0). There is no need to get .NET ver. 3 - as I learned in the midst of setting up Mom's T42 through the thread T42 w/fresh Win XP SP2; which Microsoft .NET version needed?. Note that many people don't like System Update, as e.g. discussed in the thread Is it me or is System Update 3 rubbish?!. Alternatively, if you prefer to update the T42 drivers/programs manually, you may do that via the Drivers and software - ThinkPad T42, T42p .

Then, I installed Notebook Hardware Control (you may skip the first pages of that thread and jump to the post of Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:46 am). Use NHC to get the T42 to run cooler and with the fan less often "on". I found the lowest CPU voltages for the 600 MHz and 1.8 GHz setting, and left the other multipliers to their default values. Also, I downclocked the GPU to 60 MHz as this is sufficient for all normal use (= non-gaming applications). Downclocking the GPU help keep GPU temperature low, and hence increase battery life and keeping the fan "off" for most of the time. I highly recommend NHC!

Get CCleaner, IrfanView (highly recommended free program for watching/manipulating images!), DoPDF (free program for printing to PDF-files which can be e-mailed!).

E-mail: I set up a free account on GMail and then configured Outlook Express (which is part of Win XP) to handle this account. GMail works very well; no spam, and no "commercial signature" as in e.g. Hotmail and Yahoo mail, so because of this I recommend GMail via Outlook Express! One benefit of having an e-mail account is the ability to use Windows XP Pro's Remote Assistance - I have taught my mother to "call for help" this way, so if she has an issue, and I am 50 km away, then we will just go online both of us, and she will invite me to help via "Remote Assistance" - very easy and very useful!

Let me see... what more... oh, yes, I also installed IBM's "PC Doctor" but I just learned that this has been updated to the Lenovo Systems Toolbox (PC Doctor 5+) so consider getting that... nice for "remote diagnostics"! Also, I installed AutoRuns for Windows and Process Explorer - both very useful, free tools nice to have if any tweaking is necessary. Finally, and highly recommended, I installed Acronis True Image - version 9 is very stable and works fine under Win XP. You may find ATI on eBay for around $10 I think. Alternatively, watch out for "deals" on ATI; they come up from time to time... and then you can grab it for typically $10. A highly, highly recommended program... to make an image of the HDD once everything has just been installed, and works perfect. Highly recommended! Hey, by the way, if you have a Seagate HDD (or perhaps later choose to upgrade to one e.g one of the new big Momentus 5400.3 series; they come with 5 years of warranty!), you may simply get Seagate's free version of ATI; it is called DiscWizard.

Consider getting Office 2003, if you don't already have ver. 2007... I guess that 2003 is sufficient (I'm using 2003 daily, and don't know what the advantage may be with 2007.. I guess it is only much larger and perhaps even slower?).

I think that's about it; with the above configuration (in addition to the programs you have already mentioned), you're surely in very fine shape!

All the best of luck with "your" new T42 - I am absolutely confident that both you and your parents will enjoy!

PS: One last thing (and important) to mention: PLEASE instruct you parents not to lift the T42 in one corner only, as this may eventually stress to the motherboard; always lift it underneath and it may live a much longer, happy and useful life!

Johan

I very much agree with Johan on how to lift the ThinkPad.

One way to help this is to buy a cheap $12.00 Cool-Lift pad.

http://www.spacesavers.com/coollift.html

This gets the machine off the desk for less reflected heat, it slants the keyboard a little for easier access and better wrist position, and one can lift the ThinkPad from the sides for less stressful moving. I use this product and like it. It also fits in a laptop bag. It's a rubber like material that only weighs four oz. or so.

Thanks for the tips all, expect some questions soon about partitioning and setting these babies up. My initial experience is summarized here.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 966#464966

Software/partition work soon to come!

You were all extremely on target about the screens, they are impressive to say the least.

My most sincere thanks for that.
D

Loads of good advice here about software to install.
I'll add a recommendation: pick Faststone Image viewer over any image viewing program. See http://www.faststone.org/FSViewerDetail.htm. It's free too, it has very good thumbnail viewer, slideview functions, a resizer that is great if you need to resize a wholebunch of images for emailing or web use. Basic manipulation (red-eye, contrast, colour, brightness etc.) is built in, you can add text or basic draw elements to an image as well.
If you suppose your parents will be taking a lot of photos I'd suggest a USB harddrive (2.5 inch laptop disk in a basic USB housing, very compact and cheap) to safeguard their images and important files (text, financial) by running straight copies to it. The worst that can happen to many people is losing several years' worth of photos when a hard disk crashes or their computer is stolen. A small USB drive can be hidden away under a seat or mattress in the RV (or in a small safe if they have one), and keep their data safe there.

Good buy decision. This is not a disposable laptop and will be powerful enough for the next several years. The quality screen makes it well worth maintaining.

All the software suggestions are excellent but I'll add a couple:

I use the FF add-on "No-squint" to set magnification for web pages so that they are not too small. It will use chosen default until you change it, then remember the change for that web page. Probably want 110% default for your parents.

I install Irfanview on all my supported machines due to it's great simplicity with some power hidden behind that.

USB hard drive backup is a bit easier and more reliable than CD for backing up files.

Acronis True Image. Froogle for it and buy an old version for under $20. As they said, you don't need to install it to image the drive and make backup DVDs. But you have the option to also setup a built-in recovery zone and keep a backup of the installion right on the drive. I think that this is better than using the IBM rescue and recovery.

Not all the thinkvantage software is needed or useful for home users. Besides the obvious, I leave Access connections out (just install the driver) and let windows handle the connections because everybody learns how to use Windows zero configuration and it does not require knowing the precise type of security a given RV park has.

I put Wordpad in the quickstart and discourage use of the overly complex Word for simple letter writing and notes.

I like Media Monkey for music or Db poweramp for quick and light. But for others, I'm putting itunes on theirs because it's nearly universal, clean interface and much better than WMP. They will like how it works for podcasts to listen to their favorite radio programs.

Everyone I support is happy with AVG Free 8.0. Google for installation tips.

Spyware blaster is very simple protection that works.

I am testing Super Anti Spyware on my mom's - we'll see how she likes it.

I agree that VLC is not the easiest to use. GOM player will do the job with a simpler interface.

PowerDVD on autostart for DVDs.

I'm looking into Foxit as per your suggestion!

Cheers
Steve

Current issue I'm fighting can be found here:

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 302#466302

But otherwise the system is proving to be very enjoyable. I'll be glad to clarify anything I can about the system as long as I can get this cleared up for my parents, I'm nervous that I might have a Graphics card issue, but I think it's probably software related. I just recently got almost all the most recent updates, even the scary bios ones so I hope that doesn't have anything to do with it.

D