Speed on Samsung and Toshiba SSD drives also seems to be unaffected by alignment. [However, perhaps SSD longevity is affected.]

Yes I made similar experiences and measurements with WinXP and the Intel 320 SSD.

I also posted a question concerning this on the Intel Forum.
Partition Alignment neccessary?

But it seems that Intel or closely related posters over there do not want to give a clear answer to the question,
what the Intel 320 controller would do or not, or if it really needs alignment.

I just read through your thread over at Intel. From reading Anand's explanation over at Anandtech, my guess is that you might increase wear on the SSD if you do a lot of writing to it. While the drive is fast, you could come close to doubling write amplification, especially with a lot of small writes here and there.

Fellow forum-friends (following this thread); we have some very, very, very interesting news tonight, shared by expert-forum member lordvalumart in the very related thread T42 SSD Conversion Success (1.8" SATA drive + bridge board) and more precisely in this post. Have a look for yourself and experience for your part as well the excitement...

If any of the readers of this thread should decide to follow lordvalumart's suggestion about digging a bit more into this, and if any member(s) should perhaps discover more useful information, kindly post such results either in the thread T42 SSD Conversion Success (1.8" SATA drive + bridge board) or in this thread... thanks very much in advance!

- and, as you may have guessed, I have too been experiencing the frequent freeze with the same setup as lordvalumart is using (by the way, I am having same freezing issue with the X18-M as with a newer Intel 320 SATA SSD, and I am having the same issue regardless of using Win XP or Windows 7, both which I have installed from "fresh"). Friends, I really, really would like to support anybody in getting an end to this annoying thing!! I am offering a BIG Prize to he or she who can help put an end to this issue, so that we can use the T42/p with the 1.8" SATA SSD with no fear of freezing ever again!!

Thanks in advance for anyone who has more useful information to share in relation "stabilizing" the use af 1.8" SATA SSD's in T42/p's.

Johan

I'd happily sell you an R52 motherboard with Intel graphics and SATA-mod. I'll even throw in a 1.86GHz CPU for free.
It's a drop-in replacement for your T42 mobo.
All you need is buy some (cheap) DDR2 PC2-4200 or PC2-5300 RAM.
And then use any 2.5" SATA drive you like.

As readers of this thread may know, I have long been searching for a high-performance (= fast and stable) 1.8” SATA SSD to be used in the main HDD bay in my T42p; this SATA SSD sought for being connected through the eBay 1.8”-SATA-to-2.5”-PATA-adapter discussed previously in this thread. You who have been followed this thread may know that I have had mixed results with both an Intel X18-M and with an Intel 320 (these have both exhibited frequent freezing for me, under XP as well as under Win7 in my T42p, and so far I haven’t managed to resolve this annoying issue). I have therefore recently been asking various people about their long-term experience with other 1.8” SATA SSD’s in T42/p’s, and in this post I wish to share various information that I have recently received via PM and/or e-mail.

In reply to my problems with the Intel SSD’s (the X18-M and the ‘320) Oliver (member lordvalumart) commented the following:


Member Tycho has contributed significantly to the "sister-thread" --> T42 SSD Conversion Success (1.8" SATA drive + bridge board) and in relation to his long-term experience...:

Member GACrabill has also reported mixed experience with an 80 GB Intel X18-M Gen2, but I have good reason to believe that Gary will report more shortly about his experience with this and other SSD’s, so I won’t discuss any of Gary’s replies to me. All I can say is that... you will no doubt find Gary's upcoming posts VERY interesting!


Note: The two SSD’s used by Hanning (ChugokuOtaku) are those mentioned in this post, being these: FRU 41W0520 = Samsung MMCRE64G8MPP-0VAL1 and the FRU 45N7587 = Toshiba THNSNC064GAMJ

In his reply to me about his long-term experimence with this SSD...:
Member Owen_Meaney in this post reported also using a Kingston 64 GB SSDNow V+180 drive and in reply to his long-term experience with this SSD, Menno recently replied:


In relation to his long-term experience with this SSD, FAydin recently PM’ed me:

I intend to update this thread shortly with some VERY good news…

Johan

As promised in my post in this thread yesterday, I am now moving on to share my most recent own experience about how to successfully upgrading T4x’s to having a fast and stable 1.8” SATA SSD through using the eBay 1.8" microSATA to 44-pin 2.5” IDE adapter, discussed in this thread (and note how insanely cheap this adapter is here!).

Apart from this thread, there are a few other threads on the internet (that I know of!) discussing the same topic (1.8” SATA SSD’s in T4x ThinkPad’s); those threads being T42 SSD Conversion Success (1.8" SATA drive + bridge board) and Der etwas andere SATA-Mod für T42 und Verwandte (the latter on the German ThinkPad’s forum).

In this post, I’d like to report my experience with four 1.8” SATA SSD’s and the above-mentioned adaptor in a T42p (2373-Q2U); these four SSD’s being:

1) An Intel X18-M (80 GB, the “G2” = 2nd generation, full model name = SSDSA1M080G2HP, using FW = 2CV102M3),

2) An Intel 320 series (80 GB, the “G3” = 3rd generation, full model name = SSDSA1NW080G3, using FW = 4PC10362),

3) A 64 GB Kingston SSDNow V+180 (model no. SVP180S2/64G) and

4) A 128 GB Kingston SSDNow V+180 (model no. SVP180S2/128G).

Before moving on, I'd like to add that both of the Kingston’s SSD (like the two above-mentioned Intel SSD’s) supports TRIM (which enhances device wear leveling by eliminating merge operation for all deleted data blocks), which is especially useful for Windows 7 installations, and that both Kingston’s are furthermore mentioned to have a “Garbage Collection Feature: Enables high SSD write performance even when operating system does not support TRIM” (like e.g. XP). This makes the Kingston SSD’s very attractive for people concerned about long-term performance and reliability. The Kingston SSDNow V+180 furthermore come with a three-year warranty.

Readers most interested in the GOOD NEWS can skip the first part of this (long!) post, and jump directly to the part starting with: “FINALLY SUCCESS”

To start off chronologically, I first cloned my old 60 GB (Hitachi HTS721060G9AT00, 7200 rpm mechanical, formatted as NTFS) HDD in the T42p, containing a Windows XP Prof. (SP3) installation, to the X18-M. This XP installation on the Hitachi HDD has been running for long, was fully updated (Windows programs/drivers and Lenovo ditto), and has never caused any problems; the T42p has been running completely stable with this HDD/XP setup. During this cloning (using Acronis True Image ver. 9, build 3854) I used the standard from-outside-and-in technique, placing the old HDD in the UltraBay and placing the newly formatted X18-M (with the eBay adapter) in the internal HDD bay (the X18-M and the IDE 44 Pin to 1.8" Micro SATA Adapter was fitted in the Shapeways caddy which I can highly recommend). The cloning to the X18-M went smooth. I didn’t do anything to make partition alignment on the cloned X18-M. During the subsequent use the T42p with the X18-M, the SSD would unfortunately relatively often freeze during boot, and in such case leave the machine hanging. Sometimes the boot process would leave a blinking cursor in the upper left corner, and halt; other times it would halt at the splash-screen (but always passing POST with no errors). A few times I also experienced the T42p to hang (freeze) after resume from sleep (Fn+F4). When freezing under boot, the only option left was to press the power-button for 10 seconds to force a hard shutdown. During the subsequent boot Windows would typically report either an abnormal shutdown, and when proceeding to boot “again” the system would often freeze (again), or would continue to boot normally. Sometimes it was necessary to go through up to perhaps 6-7 freezes and hard-shutdowns before the T42p would finally boot OK. Once fully booted in a normal way, the ThinkPad would run tremendously good, with (in addition to the very rapid boot time!) flash-like start of all programs. So, if the boot was OK, error(s) or freezing were only experienced very seldom, once up and running. If I could only get this to setup to run stable it would by far be worth it – retaining the otherwise superb 15” 4:3 LCD UXGA FlexView T42p with its outstanding keyboard etc. This (although "troubled") very good performance kept me wishing that I could just somehow get this setup to work completely stable!!!

I should note that the Intel SSD Toolbox ver. 2 (or was it 2.01 at that time?) would run very, very slow on the X18-M with XP; a full diagnostic scan would take at least 30 min. to complete; the first 65 % would always go very fast (in only a few seconds), but the scan would then hang “forever” (= 30 min or more) at 65 % completed-level before completing the 66 --> 100 % very fast. What is peculiar is that I believe that the most recent release of the Intel SSD Toolbox (ver. 3.0.3) would run very fast on the X18-M in the T42p under XP?!? (I can’t quite remember this).

In relation to using an X18-M in a T42, member tomatenfisch (the creator of the Shapeways caddy!) recently tried an X18-M in his T42; the results are discussed in this post (there’s a Google Translation here; see the post of 08/01/2012, 16:43). A better English report about Thomas’ experience with the X18-M is here:


What’s a bit confusing (?!) is however the report by our new (obviously expert-!) member, lordvalumart who in this post and this post reported success with the X18-M in his T42p, also under XP?!?! Why does the X18-M work for some (lordvalumart!) but not for others???

A few peculiarities with the X18-M: Because I experienced all the freezing etc. I started wondering if the X18-M was perhaps partly defective? (I bought it as new on eBay.com, and you never really know with stuff bought there…). Therefore I conducted a number of tests:

1) First, I mounted the old T42p mechanical HDD (7200 rpm w/XP) in the internal T42p HDD bay, and mounted the X18-M with the eBay SATA-to-PATA adapter in a PATA UltraBay (IBM FRU 41N5661 which is equivalent to IBM FRU 62P4553 or to the Lenovo P/N 41U3148). After booting (on the old 7200 rpm HDD) I could see the X18-M (in the UltraBay) if the UltraBay was in the T42p.

2) I then purchased a 1.8” SATA-to-2.5” SATA adapter; the Lenovo FRU 42W7888 (I first checked that this adapter indeed contain a 3.3 V to 5 V converter circuit; as discussed in the thread FS: Intel X18-M G2 160gb SSD (2.5 inch adapter available)). Using this converter it is possible to convert the 1.8” SATA X18-M SSD to a 2.5” SATA device which can then directly be used in all 2.5” SATA laptops, such as T60’s etc.

3) Now, I took the X18-M, put it in the 42W7888, put this 2.5” assembly in a SATA UltraBay (I used the Lenovo FRU 26R9246 SATA UltraBay but I could have used the Lenovo P/N 40Y8725 as well). Notice however that the latter, my 2.5” SATA UltraBay, didn’t have the “tab” which original Lenovo (“T60”) SATA UltraBay caddies would have (see the thread T43 Hard drive in the DVD bay or, more specifically, see this post) for details about this tab), so my SATA UltraBay must have been a Chinese copy – anyway it has worked fine for years with 2.5” SATA HDD’s in both T42’s and T60’s. Next, I took this assembly and put it in the T42p (which still had the old mechanical XP-HDD in the main bay) and booted the T42p. No error messages but the T42p now couldn’t see the X18-M (not even in the Control Panel --> Administrative Tools --> Computer Management --> Disk Management). If taking out the X18-M/42W7888 and in stead mounting my standard (500 GB backup) 2.5” SATA HDD in the same UltraBay, and putting this 500 GB SATA UltraBay’ed HDD back in the T42p, I could see the 500 GB SATA HDD in the T42p as usual. So, bottom line, there is something spooky with the 1.8” SATA SSD + the 1.8”-to-2.5” SATA adapter in combination with the SATA UltraBay. I don’t know what to conclude from this experiment, just mentioned.

4) Moving on, I put back the X18-M/42W7888 in the 26R9246 SATA UltraBay, put this UltraBay in a T60, booted the T60 on its normal X25-M (also G2) SSD (w/XP), but during boot the T60 reported: “Error 2102: “Initialization error on HDD1 – press Esc to continue”. After booting, the T60 would not see the X18-M?!?

5) Finally, I mounted the X18-M/42W7888 in the T60 main HDD bay, swapped the T60 X25-M SSD to the SATA UltraBay, put this UltraBay in the T60, cloned the X25-M to the X18-M, and I have been using the X18-M in the T60 for several months with zero problems (the X18-M with the 42W7888 functions exactly like the X25-M, if/when being used in the T60).

Bottom line? Something is spooky with all these adaptors “in series” or in misc. combinations. Not that this is of core importance in relation to getting the 1.8” SATA SSD to function in the T42p, just thought I would report this as well.

After all the above quite disappointing experiences with the X18-M in the T42p under XP, I reformatted it, and installed Windows 7 Ultimate (32-bit) on it, which was in any case my ultimate aim – partly because Win 7 support TRIM and partly because Microsoft will in any case stop the support of XP on April 8, 2014 (for details, see the Microsoft Windows lifecycle fact sheet). Much regrettably, the same freezing behavior with the X-18M remained also under Windows 7.

After all this work with the Intel X18-M I decided to try the newer Intel 1.8” SSD; the Intel 320 series so I obtained a 80 GB version (P/N SSDSA1NW080G3, which comes with an impressive 5-year warranty, and has the high Intel reliability, and is also supported by the Intel SSD Toolbox, both under XP and Windows 7, and the '320 which also support TRIM under Windows 7). What’s also important to notice is that lophiomys has reported stable performance with an Intel ‘320 under XP in his T42p (see e.g. this). I then cloned the Windows 7 setup from the X18-M onto the ‘320, ran the ‘320 in my T42p, but experienced the same freezing-behavior with the ‘320 as with the X18-M…

Also, I cloned the ‘320 SSD w/Win 7 to a 2.5” PATA (7200 rpm) HDD, to see if there were perhaps any errors in the Win 7 installation. The T42p with this cloned PATA HDD ran perfect… so the freezing seems to be coupled to the X18-M/Intel320 and/or to the 1.8”-SATA-to-2.5” PATA adapter.

The Intel SSD Toolbox ver. 2.0.x also ran very slow on the ‘320 (under Win 7; again hanging for long time around 65 % completed), but when I however upgraded the SSD Toolbox to ver. 3.0.1 it ran very snappy… the previous long pause at 65 % completed scan completely disappeared?!

During all of this, I messed a lot with all drivers (using both the Intel Driver Update Utility as well as the Intel Chipset Device Software (INF Update Utility) as suggested in this post and Lenovo utilities (power management etc.) to see if this might be the cause for the freezing. None of all this had any effect with respect to permanently resolving the freezing issue (although there may in principle be better drivers available somewhere, which I haven't tried, and which might solve the problems?). Also, the “Windows Startup Repair” (under Windows 7), that would start automatically after the freezing event, could never detect any errors if allowing it to do its testing etc.

Various experience with the Intel X18-M and/or the Intel 320 is also discussed in the thread T42 SSD Conversion Success (1.8" SATA drive + bridge board) and in the German thread Der etwas andere SATA-Mod für T42 und Verwandte.

I posted some CrystalDiskMark data for the T42p with the Intel 320 SSD and with Windows 7 in the thread T43 Installed Transcend SSD observations; see this post.

WHEN the Intel X18-M or the Intel ‘320 ran without the annoying boot-freezing, it ran Windows 7 very well and very fast on the T42p, especially with Notebook Hardware Control! Hibernation and sleep is SUPERfast! Shut-down only takes about 9 seconds.

Now moving on to something much more interesting… FINALLY SUCCESS with the Kingston SSDNow V+180 drives!

As mentioned earlier in this thread, I have collected various user-feedback from other forum-members using the same eBay 1.8”-SATA-to-2.5”-PATA adapter, and several members have (very kindly!) reported success without issues with the Kingston SSDNow V+180 family of 1.8” SSD’s, so based on this I had the great pleasure of, through the outstandingly friendly help of GACrabill, obtaining a 128 GB Kingston SSDNow V+180 SSD via eBay, which Gary first tested (in his T40 and in his T22, the latter as discussed in the thread Solid State Hard Drive on T23; see this post) and afterwards sent to me. Meanwhile, during the period where Gary investigated the 128 GB Kingston (the SVP180S2/128G), I had gotten my hands on the smaller brother here in Denmark; the 64 GB version (the SVP180S2/64G), which I then started to play with in my T42p until receiving the 128 GB "big bother".

I am very happy to be able to report that I have had no issues with neither the SVP180S2/64G nor with the SVP180S2/128G in my T42p, running Windows 7 Ultimate (32-bit, obviously). These SSD’s run FAST, they have so far been completely stable for me, and based on the above-mentioned reports from other users, I have reason to believe that we have finally found a setup allowing us T4x/p-owners to substantially upgrade our ThinkPad’s. So far I have only been testing these two Kingston’s under Win 7, but before shipping the 128 GB SSD to me Gary also tried them under XP (in his T40), and reported likewise stable and FAST performance.

I’d like to share some benchmarks that I have recorded for the various drives. The benchmarks have been done using CrystalDiskMark (ver. 3.0.1) and have been done both with 50 MB and with 1000 MB file size. All benchmarks were done minimum five times to investigate the “fluctuation”. In all of the following disk benchmarks, I had disabled the AntiVirus program. Both the 64 GB and the 128 GB Kingston’s had been cloned from the Windows 7 Ultimate installation on the ‘320 Intel SSD (using Acronis True Image Home 2011), and both Kingston’s were partition aligned (which is most easily checked using the Windows “chkdsk” utility to verify that the cluster-size was 4kb (= 4096 bytes), and then using the “MSinfo32” tool to find the partition offset which for both disks was 1.048.576 bytes meaning that the SSD’s were partition-aligned since 1048576/4096 = 256 = an integer number). Note: In Windows 7, the "chkdsk" program is run from a command-prompt (CMD.EXE) which must be "Run As Administrator". In XP, MSinfo32.exe is found under C:\Program Files\Common Files\Microsoft Shared\MSInfo

Below: The 7200 rpm mechanical Hitachi HDD with 1000 MB file size:


Below: The Intel 320 with 50 MB file size:

In relation to the above '320 w/50 MB filesize, what is strange is that when I re-do the same 50 MB filesize CrystalDiskMark test on the '320 today (still in the same T42p, with Win7Ult etc.), then I record somewhat different benchmarks; see this or this or this and I really don't understand why? (did I perhaps change some driver in between the two benchmarks-series, and forgot to revert back to the old driver??) Anyway, I don't feel like digging too much more into that, right now.

Below: The Intel 320 with 1000 MB file size:

In relation to the above '320 w/1000 MB filesize, what is strange is that when I re-do the same 1000 MB filesize CrystalDiskMark test on the '320 today (still in the same T42p, with Win7Ult etc.), then again I record somewhat different benchmarks; see this. Again, I really don't understand why (did I change some driver in between the two benchmarks?), but I don't feel like digging too much more into that, right now.

Next, below: The 64 GB Kingston with 50 MB file size:

If using 50 MB file size with the 64 GB Kingston, a bit variation in disk performance is seen again, as above; see e.g. this.

Below: The 64 GB Kingston with 1000 MB file size:

Note, that if using 1000 MB file size, the 64 GB Kingston shows a strange (?) variation in disk performance; see this or this or this or this (five runs in total w/1000 MB filesize). Again, I don't understand this?

Below: The 128 GB Kingston with 50 MB file size:


Below: The 128 GB Kingston with 1000 MB file size:

If using 1000 MB file size the 128 GB Kingston shows practically no variation in disk performance.

The above CrystalDiskMark numbers does not easily translate to any “real-life experience”, so in order to shed a bit more light on the very, very remarkable increment in speed of a T42p with a SSD, compared to the speed of the same laptop with an old mechanical (7200 rpm) harddrive, I have noted the boot-time for a number of disks in the T42p (having a 2.1 GHz Pentium-M 765 CPU and 2 GB of RAM, and running the same [= cloned] Windows 7 Ultimate w/SP1 installation on all disks). In all of these tests I had disabled the user-login password.

1) The old 60 GB (Hitachi HTS721060G9AT00, 7200 rpm) mechanical HDD:
From Power-on to the “Welcome”-screen: 53 sec
From Power-on to the Desktop is shown: 1 in 25 sec.
From Power-on to Firefox ver. 13 is up and ready to browse via cabled Ethernet: 2 min. 5 sec. (best-case)

2) The Kingston 64 GB SSDNow V+180 SSD:
From Power-on to the “Welcome”-screen: 40 sec
From Power-on to the Desktop is shown: 44 sec.
From Power-on to Firefox ver. 13 is up and ready to browse via cabled Ethernet: 55 sec. (best-case)

3) The Kingston 128 GB SSDNow V+180 SSD:
From Power-on to the “Welcome”-screen: 29 sec.
From Power-on to the Desktop is shown: 33 sec. !!
From Power-on to Firefox ver. 13 is up and ready to browse via cabled Ethernet: 45 sec. (best-case)

With regard to the “best-case” times mentioned for the “From Power-on to Firefox ver. 13 is up and ready to browse via cabled Ethernet” the thing is that during these tests I used a cabled Ethernet that was shared (= used) by many users, and since the net-connection time varies a bit, I have only mentioned the best-case times… obtained when the network-logon was fastest.

As I have two practically identical T42p’s (a 2373-Q1U and a 2373-Q2U, where the WLAN-interface in the latter has however been swapped to an Atheros-model), I therefore put the 64 GB Kingston in one T42p and put the 128 GB Kingston in the other T42p, simply to make a test of how fast the 64 GB feels against the 128 GB, especially under boot. This test proved that it is evident that the 128 GB for some reason IS a good tad faster compared to the 64GB (as also reflected in the above CrystalDiskMark-numbers). Why this is so, I have no idea about; both drives are said to e.g. have the same amount of cache. As already mentioned, apart to the very rapid boot-time, the SSD makes the ThinkPad very, very snappy for all other applications - with practically "flash-like" start of applications. For daily-day use (e.g. browsing, writing, mailing etc.) I actually prefer the T42p over my i7-2600 (with a SATA-III SSD) desktop at work!

To compare the above T42p boot-up times to the boot-time for newer laptops, I made the same test with two T60’s, both having T2400 (1.83 GHz) Core Duo CPU’s, and both having Intel X25-M SSD’s:

4) A T60 (2007-58U) w/3 GB RAM, a 80 GB Intel X25-M (G2), running Windows XP SP3:
From Power-on to the “Microsoft Windows XP”-screen: 11 sec.
From Power-on to the “Welcome”-screen: 19 sec.
From Power-on to the Desktop is shown: 42 sec.
From Power-on to Firefox ver. 13 is up and ready to browse via cabled Ethernet: 50 sec. (best-case)

5) A T60 (2007-55U) w/3 GB RAM, a 80 GB Intel X25-M (G2), running Windows 7 Home Premium:
From Power-on to the “Welcome”-screen: 26 sec.
From Power-on to the Desktop is shown: 38 sec.
From Power-on to Firefox ver. 13 is up and ready to browse via cabled Ethernet: 52 sec. (best-case)

… which emphasize that the T42p’s are practically as fast as the T60’s, at least with respect to boot-time!

Neither the Intel nor the Kingston SSD’s for some reason will show activity in the HDD disk-LED ("5") on the ThinkPad via the eBay adapter (whereas some Samsung SSD’s will do this?!?). Since this disk-activity indicator is useful and desired by many users, I sought for an alternative, and indeed the free utility DiskLED: A Flexible Hard Disk and General System Activity Indicator System Tray Applet works very well, at least on my T42p under Windows 7. Just download and the utility, unzip it somewhere, and (under Windows 7) right-click on the DiskLED.exe file, select “Run as Administrator”, and a small red exclamation-mark will show up in the tray-bar, at right. Now Right-click on this symbol, select Configure, and configure as shown in this "DiskLED Configuration" image. Put a mark in the lower, right box: “Update the INI file when applying settings”, choose OK ad that’s it! Then, put a short-cut to DiskLED in your Start Programs folder (Start --> All Programs --> Start (folder), and that’s it! If someone clever ThinkPad programmer can figure out a way to re-enable the ThinkPad HDD-activity LED (when using this eBay adapter), I’m certain that we are many members who will appreciate such an utility!

Note that the eBay SATA-to-PATA adapter is being shown with an OCZ Onyx SSD in this advertisement and note the headline in this advertisement: “1.8" 16pin Micro SATA SSD to 2.5" 44pin IDE adapter card for SSDNow V+180 etc”! This seems to indicate that other users have reached the same conclusions as attempted herein.

Bottom line seems to be, although based on the somehow limited testing that I (and Gary) have so far done on these SSD’s, that the Kingston SSDNow V+180 line is FAST and STABLE in T40’s and T42/p’s under Windows 7 (Gary has also tested XP with these SSD’s, but will report his experience with this later). In my own modest opinion this is a remarkable “conclusion” which I hope that many forum-members (who, like me, are fond of their T4x/p ThinkPad’s) will benefit from.

The eBay SATA-to-PATA-adapter by the way is also available via Amazon.com where one user however notes in this feedback (and whether this is true or not, I don’t know): “Works well but doesn't support Trim for SSD. Trim must be disabled otherwise computer hangs for long periods. The chip is well known to have this issue so this should have been mentioned in product description. All in all it is nice to be able to put an SSD in an old laptop, it gives quite a performance boost!”

I have verified that TRIM is enabled (under Windows 7 Ultimate in my T42p) on both the 64 GB and the 128 GB Kingston’s using the method described here. As already mentioned, I have had absolutely ZERO issues (neither "freezes" nor "hangs" or other abnormal behaviour) with the Kingston SSD's, so I doubt whether the above feedback applies in general.

Finally, and as indicated above, I would assume that the eBay-adapter and the 1.8” Kingston SATA SSD solution would also work in other “older ThinkPad’s” which are using the standard 2.5” PATA 9.5 mm tall drive (incl. T20, T21, T22, T23, T30, T40, T41, R40, R40e, R50e, R50, R50p, R51, R51e, X31, X32, X40, X41, G40, G41 and the A3x/p-series) although I have no experience with any of these. Please spread the good news to those sub-fora, if you wish.

End of this very long post… which I actually consider being my most valuable contribution to this forum, ever!

Johan

Congratulations on your success, Johan, and thank you for this detailed post. I'll bet you can't count the hours you've spent on this issue, and many of us will benefit from it. I know I will. I'm waiting for Gary's post that you mentioned, but barring any surprises I'm gonna get and install the Kingston 128Gb drive you mentioned.

Johan - You Da Man!

excellent info johan! time to get a SSD for the T42! that is phenomenal performance increase.

Thank you Johan for all your effort and analysis. Got interested after reading this thread, got a 1.8" sata to 2.5 pata converter and a 1.8" SSD.
As described earlier in the thread for a caddy ( white shapeways design), would this work in a 14.1" T4x main HDD bay. Without this using the glue sticks would it permanently fix the drive, i.e. unable to take it out without lot of effort.

Are there any other possibilities to use the existing caddy by way of taping or attaching the drive to it. Sorry if this has been answered else where, have been a late comer. Got an almost brand new used machine, which has been sitting in a box for quite sometime.

I would recommend the investment in the Shapeway caddy by Tomatenfisch,
which enables you to assemble and swap it without effort.

Theoretically you could glue the 1.8microSATA to 2.5" IDE adapter with spacers
to the original caddy, so that the pins would be in the exact right place.
But that would be a fair game to find the correct position,
and the original caddy would not offer you a lot of structural stability. In the
end you would also have to glue the 1.8inch SATA disk to the original caddy.

If would you take on of the slower 2.5inch IDE SSDs then it would be a drop in replacement with the original caddy.

HTH
/L

Please share: What specific SSD did you get... and if there's more to get where you got yours: Where did you get it, and at what price? I am sure that other forum-members who are interested in this topic will appreciate any hints to where cheap and high-quality s.8" SATA SSD's can be obtained! Ooh, of course also: Please be kind to share your actual experience, once you get your T42 up and running with yur new 1.8" SATA SSD... thanks in advance!

As to your question about how to mount the 1.8" SSD in your (14.1") T52: In the thread T42 SSD Conversion Success (1.8" SATA drive + bridge board) and more specificly in this post member Tycho explains how a somewhat similar SATA-to-PATA bridge was installed with a 1.8" SATA SSD in a T42, by gluing the parts together, but unfortunately the image host used by Tycho is down or dead. If you however Google after "T42 1.8" SATA" and select "show images" you will find cached (?) copies of the images shown by Tycho showing his glued setup; see the following images: this and this and this and this... which will give you an impression. Hint: Copy the image(s) pointed to and show it in a viewver which will allow you to expand it more; I prefer using IrfanView.

As already said, I absolutely agree with lophiomys and highly recommend the Shapeways caddy by tomatenfisch as it will allow a very stable setup, which you can open (take apart) as easily as with a normal 2.5" drive.

Finally: A potentially-interesting hint: By coincidence I just saw the thread Has anyone tried an SSD in the X41? *PICS* and this post shows how there is a 1.8" SATA SSD inside the 2.5" Samsung 470 SATA SSD listed in this eBay advertisement. Wow... a brand-new 128 GB Samsung 1.8" SATA SSD supporting TRIM for only USD 85 !?!

NB: As mentioned in the above post, this drive doesn't have +3.3V power lines on its SATA connector, only +5V lines. Needs +5V to power up. Also, if someone consider modifying this drive for use in a T42/p: Be sure to check that the SATA connector on the above-entioned 2.5" Samsung SSD (containing a 1.8" drive) is it the same as the microSATA on 1.8" SSD's? Who gets to be the first to try this SSD in a T42/p?

Johan

Thank you Johan and lophiomys. I waiting for my ssd to come, I got it on ebay ( /used ) .

The exact model, I got is Samsung 128 GB,Internal,1.8" (MMCQE28G8MUP-0VAL1) (SSD) Solid State. It is shown as Lenovo FRU 41W509. The cost was approximately 65 USD, seems like a 3 year old drive. So dont know if it will a good buy or not. Brand new Kingston 128GB ones seem to run upwards of 200 USD from newegg. As you said may be getting a 2.5" inch would have been cheaper , esp if it is brand new.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/140808757282?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 is the ebay link.

I got the drive, but the HDtune data shows only 83 MB/s in a T61 ( with Middleton BIOS ) . Still waiting for the PATA to Micro SATA interface.

Is there a way to upgrade a Samsung 128GB MMCQE28G8MUP-0VAL1 ( FRU # 41W0519) with firmware VBM0DL1Q to any firmware which supports TRIM.

Finally got the adapter and installed the drive. Is there a linux equivalent of crystal disk mark. On the surface the results dont look that good. A previous 100GB Hitachi 7200 rpm drive boot faster into Linux , exact same install.

Gary, any news on Windows XP?

I also bought a Kingston 1.8" 128GB SSD. After more reading of older threads on this forum I determined that my CrystalDiskMark results for XP on both my T40 and T22 were noticeably worse than they should be because the cloning process that I used had no way to align the XP partition on a 4K boundary. I used the free 'AS SSD' benchmarking tool to tell me whether the alignment was "OK" -or- "BAD".
I did no benchmarking with the AS SSD tool, I just used it for the alignment knowledge.

My hope was to then use a free version of Paragon Drive Copy 11 Pro SE so that I could use its 'Migrate OS to SSD' function to get the XP harddrives copied to the Kingston SSD and the software would cause the copied/cloned SSD to be aligned.

Here's where the plan fell apart. The free-for-one-day Paragon software was installed on my Win7 HDD. I connected the XP HDD via USB adapter, and the 1.8" SSD thru the microSATA-to-IDE adapter to another USB adapter .... assuming that I could then copy/clone the XP HDD to the 1.8" SSD .... and it would be 'aligned'. Not only did this process not work, I came to the conclusion that the microSATA-to-IDE adapter does not function correctly when connected to a USB-to-IDE adapter. It seems that the only way to successfully read/write thru the microSATA-to-IDE adapter is if its connected to a native IDE connection (ie. inside the laptop).

So, basically, I have no way to easily clone an XP HDD to a 1.8" SSD using the microSATA-to-IDE adapter that will result in an 'aligned' XP partition. I tried a few other odd things that also did not work. Even worse, it seems like the attempts to write to the SSD thru the daisy-chained USB-to-IDE and IDE-to-microSATA adapters has caused issues with the SSD being recognized correctly when connected normally .... therefore, my SSD is still sitting in a box instead of being in my Win7 T40. My next effort will be to use a microSATA-to-SATA adapter to Secure Erase the SSD in a T60 and hope that I can then clone my Win7 T40 to the SSD successfully.

Personally, I have no need for an SSD in any XP systems but it seemed like a worthwhile challenge to see if an 'aligned' XP could be created easily.

I would add my non-aligned XP CrystalDiskMark results to this post ... but I can't get copy/paste to work for those images on either of two laptops and its very frustrating not being able to figure out why.

If you can't get an XP partition 'aligned' on a 4K boundary, the random performance may be 50% of the 'aligned' performance speeds.

I doubt that I will spend any more time trying to get an aligned XP SSD .... and I wish a lot of luck to anyone attempting it with the hopes of cloning an existing XP HDD to an aligned SSD. (I tried building an aligned Win7 on the SSD in the T22, then restoring the XP HDD partition onto the aligned WIN7 partition ... this didn't work since the first thing that the restore process did was delete the aligned partition and then allocate the XP partition, and the result was a non-aligned XP partition sitting behind the odd 100MB Win7 partition.)

Here are the 'non-aligned' Windows XP CrystalDiskMark results.

T40 XP (2.0GHz) with 128GB Kingston SVP180S2 1.8” SSD :


T40 XP (2.0GHz) with 60GB OWC Mercury Legacy Pro 2.5” PATA SSD :


T22 XP (P3=900MHz) with 128GB Kingston SVP180S2 1.8” SSD :


T22 XP (P3=900MHz) with 60GB OWC Mercury Legacy Pro 2.5” PATA SSD :

I have had some problems with my T40 running Win7 with the IDE-to-microSATA adapter and the 1.8" Kingston 128GB SSD.

Things were great for the first couple of weeks ... then the problems started ... now everything is fine again ... here's the story in case anyone else has similar issues.

I know that I should have left everything alone since it was running fine, but I did remove the SSD/caddy and do some further testing of XP 'aligned' vs. 'non-aligned' with the spare 1.8" Intel 320 Series that I have (more on that later). And then the problems started when I returned to using the Kingston SSD. There were multiple boot-up attempts where the Kingston was not recognized and multiple removals / re-insertions of the SSD/caddy ... I almost became convinced that the IDE pins of the adapter were not lining up properly and I tried all kinds of insertion angles to get it to be recognized.

After getting it to work, I had a couple of BSODs coming out of Standby and one BSOD during actual usage which was an "INPAGE-ERROR" ... so I deleted the pagefile and reallocated it which seemed to have prevented any further BSOD "INPAGE-ERROR" problems. But, the BSOD or freeze problems continued to occur 9 out of every 10 times that I tried to come out of Standby. I again deleted the pagefile but that did not help the Standby problem (it also failed when returning from Hibernation). I also tried "SFC /SCANNOW" which also didn't help.

What was really odd is that sometimes the failure returning from Standby then resulted in "operating system not found" during boot-up. Pressing F12 during those bootups showed that the Kingston was not being recognized during bootup (so obviously "operating system not found"). I have had to repeatedly power-off and then re-boot again ... sometimes up to 10 times before the bootup recognized the Kingston SSD. Removing A/C and battery and discharging the capacitors did not help this situation. After finally getting it to bootup, it then ran fast and flawlessly until I placed it in Standby again. I did finally discover that applying pressure on the palmrest directly above the adapter-connector-to-the-SSD corrected the flaky connection and everything ran smoothly for the next week.

Based mainly on the bootup recognition failures, I had ordered another IDE-to-microSATA adapter card to see if that would fix my problems. That card has arrived and my odd problems are now fixed with the new card.

The picture below shows the original card that I received and had problems with on the left (nickels in the back are attempting to hold the cards level). The card on the right is the new card that works perfectly. The card on the left arrived originally with pins which sloped upward and I used it initially assuming that it was built properly ... (it does fit into a T22 and runs fine). My guess is that the sloping pins made it hard to get the adapter-card/SSD/caddy positioned properly and maybe a resultant slight bend in the overall package caused the SSD to not fit tightly into the adapter-connector until I pressed firmly on the palmrest. If you buy an adapter and get one with sloping pins, I would recommend getting a replacement.

I'm a new member here, I've just registered because I would like to have some feedback from you guys. I have an HP 2510p 12" laptop with a 1.8" ZIF drive and I've been writing on the "HP 2510p lounge" forum, but almost noone seems to answer...

So, I've found you guys, here at the thinkpads and I think we can share lots of good info on adapting 1.8" SATA SSDs to IDE or ZIF (be it the thinkpad T42/T43's or the HP 2510p).

I'll start by redirecting you a bit to the HP 2510p lounge to see my posts there:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-busi ... ost8858308

As you might have understood, I want to change my PATA/ZIF Toshiba 80 GB 1.8" drive, which is *extremely* slow, to a 1.8" SSD. The problems I'm facing are partly similar to yours, I need to use the JMicron JM20330 adapter, but a smaller version (1.8") and actually from ZIF to microSATA, not IDE to SATA.

What I want to do is use this LIF/SATA to ZIF/IDE adapter :
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 1497.l2649

and a 1.8" 128 GB microSATA Toshiba HG3 SSD (the same as the Kingston V+ 180 drive) :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Toshiba-THNSN ... 0977321237

The Toshiba THNSNC128GMMJ is the same as the THNSNC128GAMJ, but with the 1.8" metallic case removed.

I will need to solder the microSATA connectors, something similar to what has been done here (check the 2 photos in post #102):
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardwar ... ost6989450

The adapter will be about 5 mm thick (with a female microSATA connector I want to solder onto in place of the SATA LIF connector). The SSD is about 4 mm thick. Putting one on top of the other just about fits the 1.8" ZIF bay of the HP 2510p.

The HP 2510p has the ICH8M southbridge and I *suppose* it has native IDE controller, so no Marvell SATA to IDE bridge on the motherboard as the Thinkpad T43 has (if I did understand correctly).

What do you guys think ? Will I be able to pass TRIM to the Toshiba SSD through the ZIF(=IDE) to microSATA adapter JM20330 ? Remember that this Toshiba SSD is the same as the Kingston V+ 180 you had great success with. It also seems that the SSD has aggressive GC, so it can be used in WinXP without bothering with TRIM (that's why I've chosen it instead of Intel or Samsung SSDs).

Will I have the HDD activity LED functioning ?

As a side note: What is even more interesting is that the PCB of the Toshiba/Kingston SSD just about fits the 1.8" HDD bay, while for other drives (such as the Samsung MMCRExxx model you've seen in those 2 photos above) one has to CUT a bit from the PCB to make it fit (The Samsung PCB is a couple of mm longer than the Toshiba/Kinston PCB).

Looking forward to hearing from you. I can gladly help out with extra photos or info, if needed.

Let me congratulate you for a very thorough job done on the IDE to SATA adapter ! It IS very useful for other laptops too, not only the Thinkpads

PS: You can also check my post in another thread here:
http://forum.notebookreview.com/hardwar ... ost8863503

Why not use a mSATA-to-ZIF adapter like this? www.ebay.com/itm/280953531493 Looks like it will be a drop-in replacement for a 1.8 inch ZIF hard drive.

Because:
1. It's a PCI-E/miniSATA connector (not microSATA). I would still need to unsolder this connector and connect the SSD via wires. If you check the SATA LIF-ZIF adapter I mentioned, it has (near the SATA LIF connector) space left to solder a 4mm thick microSATA female connector (which I happen to have). The adapter would be 1mm+4mm thick (PCB + connector)=5mm.

2. It's too thick, 6.5mm vs. 5mm for the (thinnest) SATA LIF <-> ZIF adapter I mentioned. The bay is about 9.5mm high. I can barely fit a 4-5mm adapter + 4mm Thin microSATA 1.8" SSD. Don't forget there will also be wires and insulation involved...

3. It's larger: 63 x 35 vs. 53 x 41mm for the SATA LIF <-> ZIF adapter. 63mm in length would be a bit difficult to fit in, with cables soldered onto and everything. At best, the available bay dimensions are 71 x 54 x 9.5mm.

4. It's the same chipset (JM20330) + about the same price. And I already ordered the SATA LIF <-> ZIF adapter + cables. The SSD I have (I actually disassembled a Toshiba 1.8" microSATA SSD with the metallic casing = Kingston V+ 180).

Thanks for your input !

If you already have an 1.8 inch microSATA SSD, then of course it makes sense to utilize what you have. Still, mSATA SSDs are much more common, available new and future-proof, unlike 1.8 inch microSATA SSDs. If one is to buy an SSD to use in IDE adapters, then I strongly suggest mSATA over any other small form-factor SATA drives.

True. However, I find mSATA SSDs a bit more expensive (though faster *maybe*) than microSATA 1.8 ones...

Why not just buy a 1.8" PATA ZIF drive and install it straight into the laptop ?
http://www.mydigitaldiscount.com/solid- ... rt=pricelh
You don't need to adapt a SATA drive - any of the PATA ZIF RunCore / Renice / MX drives will be a gazillion times faster than your mechanical Toshiba drive and they'll just fit straight in.

Actually, I've just noticed the HP 2510P has an optical drive, so you don't need a special SSD.
http://www.newmodeus.com/shop/index.php ... page&id=22
Just buy a boggo 2.5" SSD and install it inplace of the optical drive with a NewModeUS caddy. You can keep your existing Toshiba inplace too.

This*) is a quote from my post in this thread; viewtopic.php?f=2&t=99771&start=30

Moderator edit: *): Quote snipped.

@ Taffy: Please do not cross-post - we don't allow that on this forum... kindly get yourself (a bit better) acquainted with the These are the RULES of this ROAD - READ ME NOW and respect that. Thank you in advance.

Apologies.
Thought it was relevant in this thread.

I think you may stay within rules and still refer to your own post in another topic by something like this:

"I have a solution/suggestion to this", see my post link to post. (And where you can get a direct link to your post by pressing the little document/sheet icon right before "Posted: DD MMM YYYY HH:MM".)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong please.


... aaaaaaaaaand back to topic

Guys, anyone using an miniSATA (mSATA) PM810 SSD (Samsung SSD 470 equivalent) coupled with an mSATA/PCI-E to ZIF adapter, based on JM20330 chipset ?

Is it working correctly, should I expect it to work ? correct TRIM passing, wake from sleep, etc ? Any hint is welcome !

OK, guys. Installed a Samsung PM810 mSATA SSD 64 GB (the mSATA equivalent of Samsung SSD 470), FW AXM18D1Q + mSATA to ZIF adapter into my HP 2510p.

The SATA to PATA bridge of the adapter is JM20330 and is set as master. I left the optical drive inside as slave.

The drive works flawlessly. I can confirm that TRIM works correctly under Win7 or via Anvil's Manual TRIM in WinXP. Also, Secure Erase through the SATA to PATA bridge works well (used PartedMagic).

Sequential reads/writes are 78/65 MB/s.
4K reads/writes are 12/15 MB/s.
Access times 0.2-0.3 ms.

Everything is snappy, many times faster than the mechanical ZIF drive (Toshiba 80 GB).
Even the HDD LED is working properly.

Anyone trying the same, be warned: not any mSATA drives will work with the mSATA to ZIF adapter.
Some of the working, tested variants with the JMicron JM20330 bridge:
Samsung PM810 mSATA
Samsung PM800 1.8
Kingston V+180 1.8" (actually a Toshiba HG3).