Take a look at our
ThinkPads.com HOME PAGE
For those who might want to contribute to the blog, start here: Editors Alley Topic
Then contact Bill with a Private Message

Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

T40/T41/T42/T43 Series
Post Reply
Message
Author
OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#1 Post by OnionLand » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:02 pm

Hello,
I recently acquired a lot of t43s and t43ps,
I managed to successfully install windows 98 on both an unmodified t43 2668 46u and a t43 in which I have replaced the motherboard with one from a t43p (they both have the ati 300 and 1200 video cards respectively), using an IDE ssd.
One issue I came across however was that i was unable to install the video drivers which were provided here:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=119509
from a clean install the video card is not detected, and when removing all video devices from the management menu and restarting the computer one of the video devices are automatically detected and a driver is installed automatically.
From this state the drivers also do not detect my video card.
If I then again remove the devices without restarting the screen turn black as would be expected without a video device.

I have tried for quite some time to install proper video drivers for the laptops, even going so far as to attempt somewhat newer versions of the catalyst suite, using unofficial updates, and win98toME, but with no success.
If someone would be able to provide me with a way to successfully install video drivers for this laptop on win 98 I would be eternally grateful.

If anyone also has any tips on installing other drivers such as audio drivers I would also be thankful, I have not looked into this as much, so any advice would be nice.

As a sidenote installing video drivers on both these laptops works well on windows 2000, and the video devices are detected on ubuntu, so there is nothing wrong with the video cards.
Last edited by OnionLand on Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RealBlackStuff
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 23809
Joined: Mon Sep 18, 2006 5:17 am
Location: Loch Garman, Éire

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#2 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Mar 18, 2017 2:43 pm

Welcome to the Forum.

There never were any T43/T43p drivers for W98 (or earlier), only from W2K onwards.
To get them, click on the Drivers link at the top of this page.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.

PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine
.

OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#3 Post by OnionLand » Sat Mar 18, 2017 4:23 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:Welcome to the Forum.

There never were any T43/T43p drivers for W98 (or earlier), only from W2K onwards.
To get them, click on the Drivers link at the top of this page.
Thank you for the welcome,

I'm well aware of the fact that drivers were not released for laptops beyond the t42, I have heard successful stories about using t42 drivers on the t43. As far as I know there are also catalyst drivers with support for the mobility radeon x300, x600, and x700 mobile video cards that are compatible with win98.

Since this is the biggest forum for the t4x series I was hoping that someone with more experience attempting to make win98 work on the t43 would be here to share their experience.


Edit: Example of successfully installing the video drivers mentioned:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33287

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 17303
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#4 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:40 pm

OnionLand wrote: I have heard successful stories about using t42 drivers on the t43.
When it comes to video drivers, no. It simply doesn't work.
As far as I know there are also catalyst drivers with support for the mobility radeon x300, x600, and x700 mobile video cards that are compatible with win98.
No wisdom to offer here.
Since this is the biggest forum for the t4x series I was hoping that someone with more experience attempting to make win98 work on the t43 would be here to share their experience.

Edit: Example of successfully installing the video drivers mentioned:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=33287
Well...that was more than a decade ago, and the very fact that you haven't found much info about running 98 on 43 should tell you something...IMO, that is.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#5 Post by OnionLand » Sat Mar 18, 2017 8:59 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
I'm pretty sure the video drivers for the t42 are just compressed generic catalyst drivers, so I don't see a reason they shouldn't.
That being said I do agree with you, the fact most information on this topic is from more than a decade ago really is quite an issue. particularly because a lot of the sites referred to either don't exist, or have stopped carrying the needed drivers.

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 17303
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#6 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 9:23 pm

OnionLand wrote:
I'm pretty sure the video drivers for the t42 are just compressed generic catalyst drivers, so I don't see a reason they shouldn't.
I do. Because when you force a T42 driver (which is one and the same ranging from 7500 through 7800 through 9000/9600 to T2) onto a T43 it will not work within the Windows environment. Period. Been there and done that. The reverse also holds true.
That being said I do agree with you, the fact most information on this topic is from more than a decade ago really is quite an issue. particularly because a lot of the sites referred to either don't exist, or have stopped carrying the needed drivers.
T43 is a reasonably capable machine even by today's standards if one sticks with operating systems that it was designed for. 98 is not one of them.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#7 Post by OnionLand » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:21 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
I do. Because when you force a T42 driver (which is one and the same ranging from 7500 through 7800 through 9000/9600 to T2) onto a T43 it will not work within the Windows environment. Period. Been there and done that. The reverse also holds true.
Thank you, that's actually quite helpful as it rules out one possible approach, I appreciate you sharing your experience.
ajkula66 wrote: T43 is a reasonably capable machine even by today's standards if one sticks with operating systems that it was designed for. 98 is not one of them.
Whilst certainly true that it is not designed to run on win98 I don't see that as a reason to not use it as such if possible. I find it quite absurd to be dissuaded from using a machine for a particular purpose just because it was not intended by the manufacturers. It was also not intended to run on win7 or even further than that, but I don't see that dissuading people from doing so.
And quite frankly, despite the nice qualities of the t43, and though this is something you and many others in this forum may well disagree with me upon, if I my purpose was to have a machine with a later OS in mind I would have chosen a laptop with multiple cores and native sata support.

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 17303
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#8 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:47 pm

OnionLand wrote:
Whilst certainly true that it is not designed to run on win98 I don't see that as a reason to not use it as such if possible. I find it quite absurd to be dissuaded from using a machine for a particular purpose just because it was not intended by the manufacturers. It was also not intended to run on win7 or even further than that, but I don't see that dissuading people from doing so.
One big difference is that going forward (Vista/W7) is that every single driver works. Going back...not so much. Good luck with that Gigabit LAN, to begin with.
And quite frankly, despite the nice qualities of the t43, and though this is something you and many others in this forum may well disagree with me upon, if I my purpose was to have a machine with a later OS in mind I would have chosen a laptop with multiple cores and native sata support.
You're obviously free to run whichever OS you deem fit. I run W2K on mine, on an Intel SLC SSD. Most average users would deem that to be a completely insane setup.

My point is that 98 will not be able to utilize many of the fine features that T43 offers, starting with 2GB RAM and so forth. I'd go for an older system (A2x/T2x, 600, 570...) if I wanted to run 98. But that's me.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#9 Post by OnionLand » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:19 am

I fully know that using win98 will impose a fair amount of limits. I went into this fully aware that I may not be able to run features such as wireless or etcetera.
My current priority is to make video and sound work to a certain degree. I am also fairly certain I can get some other features such as special keys by using second party utilities such as I already have with usb support.
As for ram I will likely only be using the 1gb stick that came with the t43p unit, as the the 512mb imposed limit is fixed with the unofficial patch.

I do actually have an old 386 laptop, as well as a pII one, both passive matrix though sadly. The purpose is really to max out the old operating system in laptop form, an excercise which, given the recent popularity of older hardware I've found to be surprisingly rare, though there are of course other factors of the thinkpads which made me chose the t43 specifically.

edit: spelling

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 17303
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#10 Post by ajkula66 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:39 am

OnionLand wrote:I fully know that using win98 will impose a fair amount of limits. I went into this fully aware that I may not be able to run features such as wireless or etcetera.
I'm curious: why 98 and on a T43? Why that particular combo?
My current priority is to make video and sound work to a certain degree. I am also fairly certain I can get some other features such as special keys by using second party utilities such as I already have with usb support.
As for ram I will likely only be using the 1gb stick that came with the t43p unit, as the the 512mb imposed limit is fixed with the unofficial patch.
You *might* be better off with 2x512MB on a T43, although I'm not certain whether 98 will support the dual-channel aspect.
I do actually have an old 386 laptop, as well as a pII one, both passive matrix though sadly. The purpose is really to max out the old operating system in laptop form, an excercise which, given the recent popularity of older hardware I've found to be surprisingly rare, though there are of course other factors of the thinkpads which made me chose the t43 specifically.
I wish you the best of luck with that noble quest. While the T43 range is something that I'm extremely familiar with, I can't say that I've touched a system running a 98 in more than a decade. My 701 units had 95 installed, but even that was easily five years ago.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#11 Post by OnionLand » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:37 am

Alright, time for a progress update,

I have managed to install catalyst drivers by using a modified C7_21000.inf from the wme-8-03-98-3-050117a-021000e catalyst suite on my t43

By adding "ATI MOBILITY RADEON X300" = RV370_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_5460 under the [Mfg] section of the inf I have been able to use install them through device manager. This has enabled me to use true color options as well as to finally resize my screen. Although the specific resolution of my monitor is not supported sadly, meaning that it beats the crap out of generic and third party drivers.
One downside is that even with the modified inf the catalyst installer will still not recognize the device, meaning that it will not install the catalyst suite, meaning that I am unable to change any options. Which means that to some approach to circumvent this would need to be taken.
The performance has not been benchmarked either, so the actual gain may be limited.
Nevertheless this is a step forward.

Now the question is how to move on from here, if for starters if anyone knows the vendor and dev id for the firegl 3200/x600 as well as the which configuration it would be under, so that this could be replicated on the t43p motherboard that would be great. Now to install the catalyst suite still remains the big issue, but hey, progress.

edit: The mobility 3200 also appears to have the following ids "PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3154&SUBSYS_05701014&REV_80" according to a quick search. If anyone would like to join me in my attempts to implement this that would be great.

edit2: the id does not seem to be correct for the the 3200 so ignore that.

edit3: Whilst I'm gathering my thoughts it appears that the mobility 3200 uses RV380/M24 GL, so if the above had been correct a similar implementation would be something like ["ATI MOBILITY FireGL V3200" = RV380_ENU, PCI\VEN_1002&DEV_3154&SUBSYS_05701014].

GomJabbar
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 9872
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:57 am

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#12 Post by GomJabbar » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:27 am

DKB

OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#13 Post by OnionLand » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:50 pm

GomJabbar wrote:According to the following, the PCI ID should be 1002:5460

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:T43

http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/ATI_Mobility_Radeon_X300
Yepp, that's the vendor id and device id of the x300, which is why you add VEN_1002&DEV_5460.

Still haven't been able to get the FireGL V3200 of the 43p motherboard to work though.

OnionLand
Posts: 8
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:13 am
Location: Harrison, NY Us of A

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#14 Post by OnionLand » Wed Mar 22, 2017 1:02 pm

I appear to have lost one of my comments but here is the gist of it:

By editing the inf file i managed to get a resolution of 1400*1050, the win2k sound driver is compatible with win98 both using the t43 and t43p motherboard.

The device id of the v3200 IS 3154, but I can not get the system to pick the ati driver over the generic windows driver, however if I transfer the hard drive on which I have installed the ati driver for the x300 using the t43 the t43p is able to recognize the v3200, meaning that, though requiring a bit of an intricate installation process, the t43p is usable with win98 as long as you aren't too concerned with connecting to the internet at its current state.

Again not being able to install the catalyst suite is a drawback, meaning that we either need to force this suite on to the installation, or find an alternate program to manage the graphics card.

As a sidenote: Though I still have not benchmarked the systems I was able to start the relatively recent game deus ex without any issues, achieving a fluid framerate on directx for the few seconds i tried it, meaning that the card is fully usable.
It is still very possible that I am missing out on card specific optimizations however. Optimally I would like to perform a benchmark test between a win2k installation and the win98 one with my workaround to fully know the differences.

The current mission is to get the catalyst suite/an alternative program working, as well as to get the right set of architecture specific settings working driverwise.

jamesfx2
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:54 am
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#15 Post by jamesfx2 » Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:57 am

Curious if you managed to get this working any better?

sdfox7
Sophomore Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Danbury, CT, United States of America

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#16 Post by sdfox7 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:00 am

The Catalyst 6.2 release notes indicate that the beta package supports the x300, but it makes no mention of the x1200.

Catalyst™ 6.2 Drivers and ATI Multimedia Software for Windows 98/Windows 98 SE/Windows ME (archived)
Catalyst® Release Note Version 6.2 (archived)
ATI Multimedia Center™ 8.9 (archived)

It seems like many of the associated archived download links broke (probably since AMD bought ATI), but I have archived them here:

http://sdfox7.com/win98/ATI Catalyst 6.2/
ThinkPad 600E (Win98); T23 (WinNT 4.0); T41 (Win2000); T61p (WinXP)
My name is Stephen Fox. I am a '18 BBA and '20 MBA student at WCSU.
Disable Google Chrome End of Support Infobar on Windows XP/Vista

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 17303
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Belgrade, Serbia

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#17 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:23 pm

sdfox7 wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:00 am
The Catalyst 6.2 release notes indicate that the beta package supports the x300, but it makes no mention of the x1200.
What's X1200 in this context? V3200 is actually X600.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

One FlexView to rule them all: A31p

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

sdfox7
Sophomore Member
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 10:06 pm
Location: Danbury, CT, United States of America

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#18 Post by sdfox7 » Sun Sep 03, 2017 3:32 pm

ajkula66 wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:23 pm
sdfox7 wrote:
Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:00 am
The Catalyst 6.2 release notes indicate that the beta package supports the x300, but it makes no mention of the x1200.
What's X1200 in this context? V3200 is actually X600.
Ah, I didn't do the complete legwork and quickly assumed the "1200" was the "x1200", since the "300" is the "x300".
V3200 is actually X600
Yes, ATI that makes complete sense. How about if the x600 was actually...the x600? :lol:
ThinkPad 600E (Win98); T23 (WinNT 4.0); T41 (Win2000); T61p (WinXP)
My name is Stephen Fox. I am a '18 BBA and '20 MBA student at WCSU.
Disable Google Chrome End of Support Infobar on Windows XP/Vista

jamesfx2
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 1:54 am
Location: Manchester, UK

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#19 Post by jamesfx2 » Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:18 pm

I managed to get the Radeon x300 working but that was about all I could get working. I just had to edit the .inf file further to add support for 1400x1050 at 32 bit colour.

I got the driver files from this pack - http://www.mediafire.com/download/60sbt ... ers_V1.zip - which is for the T42 but works with the appropriate modifications.

Can't get sound card, network or anything else working.

stun3i
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:31 am
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#20 Post by stun3i » Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:48 am

jamesfx2 wrote:
Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:18 pm
I managed to get the Radeon x300 working but that was about all I could get working. I just had to edit the .inf file further to add support for 1400x1050 at 32 bit colour.

I got the driver files from this pack - http://www.mediafire.com/download/60sbt ... ers_V1.zip - which is for the T42 but works with the appropriate modifications.

Can't get sound card, network or anything else working.
Hello can you tell how to modify the inf file to install the driver? I'm really stuck at this :(

kfzhu1229
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2484
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:59 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#21 Post by kfzhu1229 » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:02 am

stun3i wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:48 am
Hello can you tell how to modify the inf file to install the driver? I'm really stuck at this :(
While I have not tried that specific driver before, but I did get these drivers to work on my Latitude D610 with the same Mobility Radeon x300 chip on SXGA+.
You go and find the right .inf file that has the Radeon X300 options that would be listed in device manager. Then you go to the Rxxx_AddReg section that's corresponding to the Radeon X300, find the entry that says

Code: Select all

HKR,"MODES\8\1600,1200",,,"60,70,75,85"
Copy and paste it right above it, then change the 1600,1200 to 1400,1050
Repeat the same thing for 16 and 32 bit colour options (those usually don't come with the refresh rate at the end, copy those entries instead of this entry)
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

stun3i
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:31 am
Location: Hanoi, Vietnam

Re: Installing windows 98 video driver on t43 with ati video card

#22 Post by stun3i » Tue Sep 28, 2021 11:08 am

kfzhu1229 wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:02 am
stun3i wrote:
Tue Sep 28, 2021 8:48 am
Hello can you tell how to modify the inf file to install the driver? I'm really stuck at this :(
While I have not tried that specific driver before, but I did get these drivers to work on my Latitude D610 with the same Mobility Radeon x300 chip on SXGA+.
You go and find the right .inf file that has the Radeon X300 options that would be listed in device manager. Then you go to the Rxxx_AddReg section that's corresponding to the Radeon X300, find the entry that says

Code: Select all

HKR,"MODES\8\1600,1200",,,"60,70,75,85"
Copy and paste it right above it, then change the 1600,1200 to 1400,1050
Repeat the same thing for 16 and 32 bit colour options (those usually don't come with the refresh rate at the end, copy those entries instead of this entry)
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. But I'm not even able to install the driver to get 32bit color or 1024x768 res :(
I follow the steps and find the C7_21000.inf; added the X300 entry to the Mfg sections, then install the inf via Device Manager. After restarting, it dectected the driver as RADEON MOBILITY X300, however the is no file listed in the Drive File Details section :( there should usually be some .sys and .dll file listed there
I also checked in C:\WINDOWS\Inf\Other and found ATI Technologies-EnhancedC7_21000.inf which has the exact content as the modified file; but none of the dll or sys got copied.
What should I do now :(

Edit:
Successfully installed the driver - the trick is to use the auto search after the first time specify the inf, then windows will ask for path to dll files, and things will go smoothly after that.
Still cannot get 1400x1050 even after adding those lines into the inf file. Did I missed something?

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “ThinkPad T40/T41/T42/T43 Series”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 83 guests