t43/p owners w/fan noise problem-share your knowledge(Pics!)

GeorgeP · **Joined:** Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:59 pm **Posts:** 49

Wonderful thread!!

Rhino and nrj45, you have nerves of steel. I would be afraid to do what you've done. Best of luck and I hope you're getting good results!

G

aamsel · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:53 pm

I assume that this throws at least part, if not all of the warranty out the window?

Andrew
Austin, TX

Rhino · **Joined:** Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 95

As I said, if I cannot get this to work by Friday, I will remove the custom cooling, clean the system, and send it back. Not worried about the warranty issues.

NRJ, I really like your copper cooling. What type of copper plating is that? Or, is it copper foil?

NRJ, send me more photos of your installation please

)

jdhurst · **Posted:** Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:32 pm

aamsel wrote:

I assume that this throws at least part, if not all of the warranty out the window?

Yes, it does. I changed the Banias in my T41 to a Dothan (simple change) and my vendor was very clear that the warranty was void at that point. Now my vendor and I have worked together for many years, and he said just put the old CPU back if the system board needs servicing.

My question on this would be: Can the changes be reversed if necessary leaving no trace of change in the first instance?

... JD Hurst

leeadam · **Joined:** Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:21 pm **Posts:** 6

Rhino wrote:

leeadam wrote:

Do you guys think we can swap the heat sink 26R8197 on a 1875 model with 26R7957 on a 2686 model? I found the 1875 model have the copper for Northbridge, but not my 2686 model.

I need a reference for this part: 26R8197 Heatsink

If the unit is the same in specs, except it has a thin copper plate extending to the northbridge, then YES, it should work. But, be careful, as there is not much room between the northbridge and the wireless PCB (as you can see in my picture above). So this extra piece of copper stretching to the northbridge MUST be VERY thin. Since the northbridge is not the same level as the GPU, the copper must bend or be suited to fit perfectly on both surfaces in order to provide maximum contact of the surface area(s).

NRJ, send me the pictures!

) Use the same email address as before.

As far as what I can see, the extension copper on top of the northbridge has the same thinkness as in the main heat sink. One of the extruded pipe was bent down on the GPU so that the copper connecting northbridge and the GPU is leveled.

Rhino · **Joined:** Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 95

leeadam wrote:

Do you guys think we can swap the heat sink 26R8197 on a 1875 model with 26R7957 on a 2686 model? I found the 1875 model have the copper for Northbridge, but not my 2686 model.

I have spent some time researching this.

If it IS true, it COULD explain the problems with the fans being different on T43's. By the way, how did you come across the information about this fan having an extension for the northbridge?

Again, if this is true, it is most likely the reason we have seen different fan annoyance levels on different T43's.

Another way we could figure this out is if someone with the above type machine simply taking the keyboard out (3 screws) and taking a picture of the fan. That could solve this issue.

nrj45 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:50 am

Yep. It's a foil of copper (i said a sheet). Thickness : 0.3mm. You can work on it with scissors.

Yep i had to make different level since all DIEs were not at the same level (not easy because you have to have quite a flat horizontal surface for each DIE to improve the contact).

I didn't take a lot of pics and I mind opening again my t43p only for taking pics... But I think the 4 pics I put online summarize quite good my job :roll:

Rhino · **Joined:** Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 95

nrj45 wrote:

Yep. It's a foil of copper (i said a sheet). Thickness : 0.3mm. You can work on it with scissors.

Yep i had to make different level since all DIEs were not at the same level (not easy because you have to have quite a flat horizontal surface for each DIE to improve the contact).

Will the copper foil ever bend or move around and short anything out??

How secure is it?

Rhino · **Joined:** Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 95

I would LOVE to just swap the fans as stated above. I need to see pictures of this fan with copper plate extending to the northbridge.

I hope we see some pictures soon.

nrj45 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 4:46 am

I think the copper piece would stay at its place for these reasons :
- It is pressed by the original copper system (cpu/gpu)
- The different levels (the not flatness of the piece) avoids the piece to go everywhere in the t43p

leeadam · **Joined:** Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:21 pm **Posts:** 6

Rhino wrote:

I would LOVE to just swap the fans as stated above. I need to see pictures of this fan with copper plate extending to the northbridge.

I hope we see some pictures soon.

They all connected together. Here are pictures as you requested:
http://web.mit.edu/leeadam/www/IMG_2546.JPG[/img]
http://web.mit.edu/leeadam/www/IMG_2547.JPG[/img]
http://web.mit.edu/leeadam/www/IMG_2548.JPG[/img]
The last picture is from the model without the copper for comparison.

nrj45 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 2:07 pm

Thanx for pics leedam, but please make links for such big pictures (or resize them). Please edit your post...
Even with a 1400x1050 screen i have to scroll horizontaly to read the thread. Imagine a guy with 1024x768...

Rhino · **Joined:** Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 95

Leeadam, thank you very much for your help

) Now I have a few questions..

I see the plate that extends from the top of the GPU over the chip.

Correct me if I am wrong, but that chip is not the northbridge, the northbridge is the chip below the GPU. The chip underneath the wifi pcb.

How come in one of your pictures, that plate is missing? Are you able to simply remove it, independant of the fan?

nrj45 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 3:42 pm

The southbridge is under the wifi card... The northbridge has to deal between the cpu and the ram so it won't be so far ;-)

Rhino · **Joined:** Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 95

The southbridge needs cooling too! imo it gets warmer than the northbridge. Have you checked this NRJ?

stevepre2005 · **Joined:** Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:34 pm **Posts:** 34

The pics are out of focus...for experienced guys like nrj or rhino, they might be OK. But for us....well....just difficult to see....

nrj45 · **Posted:** Wed Aug 24, 2005 5:17 pm

See my pics rhino, my copper plate covers the 4 chips.

Summary :

Top left : cpu
top right : northbridge
middle : gpu
under palmrest : southbridge

The copper plate i prepared covers these 4 chips.
To make sure contact was pretty good here was my solution :
- cpu : no problem, the copper plate is between the cpu and the original cooling system
- gpu : idem, the original cooling system is pressing my copper plate on the gpu.
- southbridge : i put some of this gummysticker you find on the original cooling system between the copper plate and the wifi card (the wifi card is pressing the copper on the southbridge.
- northbridge : idem with the keyboard (i also used this special gummy sticker and the keyboard is pressing the copper on the northbridge.

Summary : the copper piece i made make all these chips sharing their heat and the heat of my copper piece is taken by the original cooling system. So finally my system only make both chipsets evacuate their heat through the original cooling system, nothing else...

Hope it's clear ;-)

Look at this pic : http://dl1.rapidshare.de/files/4335499/ ... dapted.JPG

By the way i put arctic silver on every chip but the cpu (where i put another thermal paste that is grey)

Rhino · **Joined:** Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:27 pm **Posts:** 95

Looks good, you did a great job NRJ

leeadam · **Joined:** Sat Aug 07, 2004 2:21 pm **Posts:** 6

better pictures here:
http://www.8080.net/html/200504/b61415491.html

nrj45 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:04 am

Rhino wrote:

Looks good, you did a great job NRJ

Thanks...
i really would to share results but i have no dbmeter. The easiest way to share results would be to find a piece of software able to display the fan rpm... So we could compare rpms vs temp...

My previous state (before "geeking" my t43p) was like that :

Code:

^rpm
|_________________________________
|
|
|
|
+--------------------------------------------> temp
35°C                                           66°C

and now i would to share such a graphic (this one is not accurate of course)

Code:

^rpm
|                            ________________
|                     ______/
|              ______/
|       ______/
|______/
+--------------------------------------------> temp
35°C                                           66°C

Another thing i noticed is that there is like an hysteresis (to avoid constant changing rpms), so the 2nd graphic would be more like that :

Code:

^rpm
|                            ________________
|                     ______/____/
|              ______/____/
|       ______/____/
|______/____/
+--------------------------------------------> temp
35°C                                           66°C

dvorak · **Posted:** Thu Aug 25, 2005 5:35 am

I asked once before, but no one replied.
Is the fan noise and fan starting to soon related to AC only?
As I have experienced the start temperatures are different for DC and AC, of course I'm only able to look at the CPU temperature.

nrj45 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:13 am

I think it depends on what power scheme you use. Since i use the same powerscheme wheter i am on ac or not i didn't notice that

dvorak · **Posted:** Thu Aug 25, 2005 6:23 am

nrj45 wrote:

I think it depends on what power scheme you use. Since i use the same powerscheme wheter i am on ac or not i didn't notice that

The only difference I have when going to DC is that PowerPlay kicks in, screen goes down to 3 brightness, and CPU stays at 600MHz.
What would yours be, PowerPlay disabled, Screen at full, CPU at full/dynamic?

nrj45 · **Posted:** Thu Aug 25, 2005 7:23 am

I made a perso profile called "perso" in the power management application.
If i un/plug the t43p, the lcd brightness will reset at the one specified in the scheme.

dvorak · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:13 am

nrj45 wrote:

I made a perso profile called "perso" in the power management application.
If i un/plug the t43p, the lcd brightness will reset at the one specified in the scheme.

Well that doesn't quite answer my question, are you talking about the fan being on when the CPU is at full speed and UNplugged, what about the GPU, that generates heat too? What about the Wifi adapter?

ruthlessbrad · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:26 pm **Posts:** 37

Rhino wrote:

While this is from my other thread, I think it makes sense for people reading this thread to learn.

nrj45 wrote:

Another thing that shocked me : look at the fan construction. It doesn't take cold air from inside the case at all. it takes cold air from the little hole at the top of the jacks (mic and ear). So when the fan is on, it doesn't make any airflow through the case.
Summary : the chipsets are triggering a fan that doesn't cool them.

I noticed this too.

While the fan is working hard, take out the slim-bay drive/battery and leave it open. Then put your fingers next to the open sli-bay slot. You can feel the system sucking in air, which suggests that when the bay is used, much needed air is having trouble entering. We are talking at opposite ends of the laptop.

I observe air being blown out over the audio jacks, not being sucked in like you two observed. I just took a piece of hair and held it in front of the vent, and it was being blown away from the laptop. I think the way the fan works is it sucks air in from above it (perpendicular to the plane of the blades) and forces it out along the sides (paralell to the plane of the blades). Air is being sucked in from someplace else, perhaps the holes in the front near the speaker?

I've played with cooling overclocked desktops a lot, always with the goal of making the computer as quiet as possible while maximizing performance. I even made a custom water cooling setup once. This is going to be my first crack at laptop cooling...

I'm going to fit some copper foil over the north and south bridge to help cool it like nrj45. However, I'm going to use two separate pieces of copper, one for the northbridge and one for the southbridge as I think it will be simpler to construct (I won't have to make three bends in one long piece of copper, only one bend each on two pieces of copper). The northbridge will cool to the CPU area of the heatsink and the southbridge will cool to the GPU area of the heatsink. I'll post some pictures when I'm finished.

I'm going to upgrade to some arctic silver 5 on the CPU and GPU and use thermal tape on the two bridges. The thermal tape will keep the copper tightly fixed to the bridges. I ordered the copper and thermal compound today, so I should have this done by labor day weekend. Thanks for all the ideas... I would never have thought to do all this on my own.

monkey243 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:36 pm

Thank you for your sharing.
But I realy want to know that where can I download the software which can show me the RPM of the CPU fan.
Could you give me the Link?
Thank you.

nrj45 · **Posted:** Sat Aug 27, 2005 2:39 pm

Yep, you're completely right.
But i don't think there is a "special" air intake system. The t serie is not "airproof". So air will come through the keyboard and wherever it can pass, making a general air flow through the case.

Though this airflow is not enough to keep cool the north and south bridge.

Concerning the hysteresis i mentionned in a previous post, it's quite ennoying... If I power on my t43p, he will keep quiet during hours unless i run once a cpu intensive application (the cpu will go over 47°C) making the fan increase it's speed. After that, the fan will never return in its previous state. I think the hysteresis wants the temp to go under 38-40°C to allow the fan to reduce its speed. And my t43p idles at 42°C in a 20°C room. Perhaps will i have a quiet t43p this winter ?

Nevertheless i got a quieter t43p after these modifications but it is not perfect (for the moment).

mg · **Posted:** Sun Aug 28, 2005 9:21 pm

What is the part number of the quiet fan in the new T43p models?

The noisy fan of a T43p 2668-H2G is labeled as follows:

top purple sticker: 26R7849, FRU Fan Long M24, 26R7957, Made in China, Furukawa Electric Co. Ltd.
top white sticker: SO50506CN
bottom sticker: Hangzhou Toshiba Home Technology Electronics Co. Ltd., DC brushless, MCF-208AM05, DC 5V 0.3A, Made in China
bottom stamp: 5426A

ruthlessbrad · **Joined:** Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:26 pm **Posts:** 37

I just finished adding copper sheets to spread heat from the north/southbridge to the cpu heatsink. I have not done any tests yet, but I can say a few things so far...

The CPU runs a little cooler. I never remember my CPU temp being below 40 degrees, but idling after I started up, it was at 39 degrees. The fan stayed silent for a while. I ran prime95 for a while and the fan kicked in on a low speed. After the CPU hung around 64 degrees for a couple minutes, the fan picked up to what it used to remain at all the time: loud! I closed prime95 and the CPU started cooling off. Since the north/southbridges are adding heat to the heatsink, the CPU cools off much much slower. Like nrj45, the hysteresis is keeping the fan from slowing down after the CPU cools off. I also have a bulge on my keyboard where the CPU is. The copper sheets and thermal tape really added to the thickness of the CPU heatsink. I will have to find some way to slice off a little height from the soft gray stuff over the CPU. Sorry, but I didn't take any pictures. I was really concentrating on trying not to destroy my brand new T43.

t43/p owners w/fan noise problem-share your knowledge(Pics!)

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