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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 6:34 pm 
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I've never owned an IBM or Lenovo laptop prior to now. Recently, I picked up a used T400 ThinkPad and a T60p ThinkPad from the original owner, both in good working condition. My initial impressions are that the screen on the T400 is amazing, and that the overall performance and build of the T60p seems awfully solid. I want to keep one of these machines only, but can't decide which one. My question to the forum is: given all things equal, if you had the same decision to make, which laptop would you keep?

UPDATE:

I knew I should have included some specs w/my initial post. I was being lazy :roll:

T400 (2764 CTO)

--Core 2 Duo P8700 (2.53)
--Win 7 Pro X64
--14" WXGA w/LED back-lit display;
1280x800 Switchable graphics
(Radeon HD 3400, Intel Mobility 4 Series)
--Wi-Fi, WAN, WWAN, WiMax
--Bluetooth (?); not sure yet.
--HD Audio

T60p (8743 CTO)

--Core 2 Duo T7200 (2.0)
--Win 7 Pro X86
--15.4" widescreen, WSXGA+, 1680x1050 display;
(ATI Mobility Fire GL v5250)
--Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, WAN
--HD Audio

**I have a mini-dock that is compatible with both machine, as well.**

I think that should due. It would make sense to opt for the newer system, given that both laptops perform well and are quality machines. But, for some reason, the T60p is attractive to me. I can see how someone might get attached to it -- for other than technical reasons. Or, does that sound creepy? Well, you know what I mean.

Thanks for the all the responses.


Last edited by dr.ottomatic on Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:03 pm 
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T400


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 7:34 pm 
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Agreed. Newer system would be the tie breaker for me.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 pm 
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If you are thinking the T400 has the best screen of the two, that tells me you don't have a 15" IPS screen on the T60p. In which case there is no contest in my opinion. An IPS screen would be my only reason for keeping the T60.

Keep the T400...it's better in every way than the T60p.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:26 pm 
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I guess if I had to take it places it'd be the T400 because the battery will at least last a bit.
If it's staying on the desk, the T60p if it's a Core 2 duo one. And the delicious Flexview panel.
If it were up to me I'd keep both
Now it's hard to decide :?

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Keep the T400, for a host of reasons, including that the T60p will not run a 64-bit operating system and is limited to 3GB of memory.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:08 pm 
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I am surprised that everyone finds this a straightforward decision. I think we need to know the detailed specifications, the OP's needs, and how long he wants to keep it for. The T60p is almost certainly a 14.1" 1400x1050 unit. We all know that the T400 is much uglier than the T60p. In addition, since the OP seems more impressed with the the performance of the T60p than that of the T400, the latter might be a low-end model with the slowest CPU, a slow/small hard drive, less RAM than the T60p, and 1280x800. In this case, I would rather keep the T60p. However, if the OP wants to keep the laptop for many years, then the T400 would be more future-proof.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:55 pm 
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OP said "... given all things equal" which I took to mean that there wasn't a high end T60p and a low end T400 in the comparison. To this point, maybe the OP should post more detail to get a more accurate answer.

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Desktop: AMD FX-8350 (8 cores) | 32gb ECC RAM | 240gb Intel 530 SSD + 1tb 7200 RPM | Ubuntu 12.04 x64 | HP ZR24w
Previous Thinkpads: A21m, R40, X61, T410


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 10:33 pm 
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EOMtp wrote:
Keep the T400, for a host of reasons, including that the T60p will not run a 64-bit operating system and is limited to 3GB of memory.


Not necessarily true when it comes to 64-bit OS.

A bunch of later T60p units shipped with Core 2 Duo CPUs, and even those that did not can be upgraded with one...

But the 3GB RAM limit stands.

As for the OP's needs...if he/she loves the screen on T400, that should be enough to base the decision on...since that's the only aspect (apart from the design which is the matter of one's preference) where T60p could possibly beat the T400...

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Cheers,

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Collecting SSDI: A31p, T42p

Abused daily: T43pSF, T60, T61, R60F, R500F

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 18, 2012 11:59 pm 
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dr.ottomatic wrote:
... if you had the same decision to make, which laptop would you keep?


I'd take whichever one has the greater vertical resolution. The processing power of the T60p is adequate for what most people will throw at it, so that wouldn't be my determining factor.

Art


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:49 pm 
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No one seemed willing to answer a question posted in a thread I created, about T400 vs T61. I wanted to know if a used T400 was worth an extra $50.

What it really comes down to for me is, does/can the T400 get SATA II speeds as the T61 w/ Middleton BIOS. Or would it require a BIOS hack that has yet to be created?

SSD and I don't want to regress.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:05 pm 
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Latios wrote:
I guess if I had to take it places it'd be the T400 because the battery will at least last a bit.
If it's staying on the desk, the T60p if it's a Core 2 duo one. And the delicious Flexview panel.
If it were up to me I'd keep both
Now it's hard to decide :?


It is a Core 2 Duo, and I think it's also the Flexview panel -- although I can't seem to determine that for sure. Is it the WSXGA+, TFT display designation that points to the Flexview panel? And, yes, I'm having a hard time deciding.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:14 pm 
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Neil wrote:
If you are thinking the T400 has the best screen of the two, that tells me you don't have a 15" IPS screen on the T60p. In which case there is no contest in my opinion. An IPS screen would be my only reason for keeping the T60.

Keep the T400...it's better in every way than the T60p.

Actually, my T60p does have the 15.4 inch WSXGA+ display -- and it's nice, I agree. However, after looking at the amazingly bright LED backlit display on the T400, the T60p screen looks a bit washed out. An illusion? Maybe. Or, is it an indication that the display is beginning to lose its shine with age?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:26 pm 
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Yeah, the T60p screen is probably aging, but there is just a difference in appearance between a CCFL and LED lit LCD. Plus, the 15.4 WSXGA+ is not an IPS screen, but I agree they are nice. I've owned at least one of them, and they're not bad at all.

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Collection = T500 - T400 - X61s - T61(14" WSXGA+) - T60p(UXGA) - X40 - T43p- T42p - A31P - A30P - 600E - 770


Last edited by Neil on Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:27 pm 
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wolfman wrote:
OP said "... given all things equal" which I took to mean that there wasn't a high end T60p and a low end T400 in the comparison. To this point, maybe the OP should post more detail to get a more accurate answer.

Well, you called it: "all things equal" should mean what you described. However, after looking at these two machines a bit closer, it looks as though the T60p is a higher-end custom build, whereas the T400 is a more basic one (see the specs I added to my original post). Both are CTO machines, and I don't have access to their custom configurations on the Lenovo site, so it's been a bit difficult to determine exact specs without getting the tools out.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:36 pm 
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I'd take whichever one has the greater vertical resolution. The processing power of the T60p is adequate for what most people will throw at it, so that wouldn't be my determining factor.

Art[/quote]
Thanks for the advice; but, I'm curious: why the emphasis on vertical resolution?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:53 pm 
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The T60p will display about 32% more vertical data (1050 vs. 800 pixels) than the T400 so you’ll do less scrolling down when reading a webpage.

Overall the T60p can display almost twice as much data at one time as the T400. (1,754,000 pixels vs. 960,000 for the T400.)
The T60p would be much more efficient to use; no doubt which I would choose, and I have had both.
'Everything else thing being equal' higher resolution will always win, for me anyway.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:36 pm 
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dr.ottomatic wrote:
I knew I should have included some specs w/my initial post. I was being lazy :roll:
Right... Well, now that we have some actual specs to compare, there is a lot more to consider than just two similar machines with one being a little newer than the other.

Now it comes down to what you need and how you will use it for. We all have our own favorite qualities for what we do, but we simply cannot decide which on will work for you. Only which one would work best for each of us. Here is how I would break it down:

If laptop's display is the only one I would ever use - winner T60p
If usually connected to an external monitor - winner T400
If postability is an issue - winner T400
If it's going to be on the desk most of the time - winner T60p (at least for me. I like hi-rez screens)
If resale value is an issue - sell T400 (it might bring more money)
If more than 3GB RAM is needed for VMs or whatever - winner T400

That's just a few of the things I can think of off the top of my head. They certainly are not the only criteria to be considered...just some of the things that might help you decide what you need/like best, and how you would use a laptop.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:09 pm 
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dr.ottomatic wrote:
Thanks for the advice; but, I'm curious: why the emphasis on vertical resolution?


It seems to me that you have never paid much attention to screen resolutions. That's okay, because I never paid attention until I had been using computers for well over a decade. To some of us, 1680x1050 is hugely advantageous over 1280x800, whereas other uses might not care so much. Like others have said, the T60p's main advantage over the T400 is its 1680x1050 resolution. So, I recommend you to use both for a week or two to discover whether that's something you appreciate. If you find that 1280x800 is good enough, then keep the T400. But if you like the ability to view windows/documents side by side on the 1680x1050, or if you like it because you don't have to scroll as much as on the T400's 1280x800, then keep the T60p.

In terms of attractiveness, I thought we were dealing with the 14.1" 1400x1050 T60p, which *is* rather attractive. But I don't find the 15.4" 1680x1050 attractive at all, so I no longer think that's an important factor to consider.

dr.ottomatic wrote:
But, for some reason, the T60p is attractive to me. I can see how someone might get attached to it -- for other than technical reasons. Or, does that sound creepy?


It does sound a bit creepy but believe me, on this forum, you aren't alone. LOL!

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:08 pm 
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I'm pretty sure you can not put Penryn CPU in the T60, and you're limited to SATA1 speeds there. Ram would be 3GB max as well.

T400 gets my vote all the way, especially with the cheaper DDR3 RAM modules these days.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:16 am 
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miro_gt wrote:
I'm pretty sure you can not put Penryn CPU in the T60, and you're limited to SATA1 speeds there. Ram would be 3GB max as well.


+1 - Maximum amount of accessible RAM by the ThinkPad is 3GB (1x1GB DDR2 and 1x2GB DDR2 DIMMs) due to a hardware limit via the chipset; 4GB (2x2GB DDR2 DIMMs) can be installed and is visible via the BIOS but the OS will only be able to access 3GB no matter which version of OS (x86 or x64) is installed onto it.

There's a few posts already covering it but you'd be limited to the T5600, T7200, T7400 or T7600 for the options available for upgrading the CPU on the T60 TP.

Finally you are limited to SATA-150 speeds for the SATA HDDs inserted into the T60 BUT saying that if you use an SSD with it you will see a good boost in performance IMHO. :D


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:01 am 
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T400. It's WWAN upgradeable out of the box and it has 3 MiniPCI-E slots (special feature among siblings, older or newer) so you can get rid of the turbo cache if installed and buy an internal SD reader, that way you can add solid state storage without losing the optical drive, for example. Additionally, the T400 has LED screen as default; power consumption seems the same but brightness is likely to stay high for years, unlike CCFLs. Also, the optical drive is SATA which is better in the long run.

I've read there is a BIOS that gets rid on the white list. You can play quite a bit with the slots then.

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