thinkpads.com Support Community Forum Index Bill Morrow's thinkpads.com Open Forum - The Original Thinkpad Support Forum
Follow ThinkpadsForum on Twitter
 Support this forum, shop at newmodeus.com
 Support the forum, shop at newmodeus.com
 The thinkpads support forum is now hosting legacy model ThinkPad driver and driver updates..
A link is provided in the MENUBAR just above for registered forum members only..

If you so wish:
Donate using PayPal

It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 2:44 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 6:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Ann Arbor, MI, USA
I'm about to buy my first ThinkPad since 1994.

My choice is down to a T60 vs an R60. With identical options, the T60 costs about $80 more than the R60. I've been scouring the best sources I have found ("tech specs" from the Lenovo site and ftp://ftp.software.ibm.com/pc/pcinstitute/psref/tabook.pdf), trying to answer this question: What would I get by paying the extra $80 for the T60?

I have found only the following differences:

1. T60 has about 10% more battery life.
2. T60 Case material is "CFRP" vs "ABS plastic" for R60.
3. T60 has an infrared port; R60 doesn't.
4. T60 has no S-Video out. R60 has one.
5. T60 has no "1394 FireWire 400". R60 has one.
6. T60 weighs about 10% less than R60.
7. T60 has 90-watt AC adaptor; R60 has 65-watt.
8. T60 price bundles in a couple of things that are extra-cost in the R60 (3-year vs 1-year limited warranty and Windows Pro vs Home). By opting out of these, one could increase the price difference to about $310.

So my questions are:

1. Are there other R vs S series differences that I have missed or that don't show up in specs?
2. In particular, are there differences that would affect the durability or quality of the machines?
3. Am I right about the above-listed differences?

~ Thanks in advance
~ Ken


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:18 pm 
Offline
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2005 5:07 am
Posts: 7904
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
One more important difference: the T60 looks much prettier!

The T series is Thinkpad's flagship line whereas the R series is the budget line. If the difference between them is only $80, I bet >95% of the members on this forum would opt for the T60. The T series probably also depreciates slower than the R series.

_________________
Dell Inspiron 7500; Gateway NX860X; HP EliteBook 8740w; Panasonic CF-Y9; Sony Pro13, VGN-P530CH
Dell OptiPlex 9010 & 760, Precision 390; HP d7900, Elite 8300, 8200 & 8000
Dell 3008WFP,U2711,2408WFP,sp2309w,ST2220M,ST2210B,2007FP; HP ZR2740w,L2201x; Lenovo L220X; Samsung 2343BWX


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:19 pm 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2006 3:00 pm
Posts: 352
Location: Boston, MA
The material on the back of the T60's screen gives it a much better feel than the R60's normal plastic. The T60 has reinforcement behind the screen, making the backing more durable than the R60. The T60 is much thinner than the R60 (and as such uses the UB Slim drives). Imo, go with the T60.

_________________
Thinkpad X60s 1704-69U / Vista Ultimate
www.frattaroli.us
We go out in the world and take our chances
Fate is just the weight of circumstances
That's the way that lady luck dances
Roll the bones


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:29 pm 
Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Moderator Emeritus

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 8:00 pm
Posts: 4818
Location: North Carolina, ...in my mind I'm going to Carolina.....
Go for the T series, you'll be glad you did.

_________________
Americas Best Soldiers


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 7:34 pm 
Offline
Special Member

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:24 pm
Posts: 5741
Location: UC Berkeley, California
I would also recommend the T Series.The advantages are significant if you are mobile and still want a very powerful system in a slimline form factor. :)



As a side now, the R Series is actually more than just budget line; it is more of a combination of the, discontinued, A Series with a less expensive, mainstream platform that has both "budget" models, the e subseries, as well as high-end models that can act as desktop replacements much like the higher A Series and G Series Thinkpads used to. This cuts expense somewhat on the part of IBM/Lenovo.

_________________
IBM ThinkPad T43 Model 2668-72U 14.1" SXGA+ 1GB |IBM 701c

~o/
I met someone who looks a lot like you.
She does the things you do.
But she is an IBM.
/~o ---ELO from "Yours Truly 2059"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 9:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Ann Arbor, MI, USA
Thanks for all the comments to date!

So far, the only substantive difference I hear is RUSH2112's statement that the T60 probably has a sturdier screen (which is significant for me).

Anybody know of any others?

Most of my use of this machine will be as a desktop replacement. The rest will be taking it on trips. On the road, for me, durability (e.g. resistance to damage by rough handling or spills) is important; a few ounces of weight or centimeters of slimness is not important. (I'm used to lugging a Dell 7000, which weighs 10 lbs and has the form factor of a brick; I figure it's both a computer and a free exercise machine!)

RUSH2112's comment that the T60 "uses the UB slim drives" makes me wonder: are those drives (a) more fragile and/or (b) more expensive than whatever drives (presumably "fat" ones) the R60 uses? By "drives" do you mean hard disk drives, or optical drives, or what? From the spec sheet, it seems that both the disk and the optical drives available for the two lines are pretty much the same.

Would appreciate any further info and advice anyone has to offer.

~ Thanks again
~ Ken


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:02 pm 
Offline
Special Member

Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 1:24 pm
Posts: 5741
Location: UC Berkeley, California
The R60 has larger form factor drives, 12.5mm Ultrabay Enhanced, as opposed to the slim line 9.5mm Ultrabay Slim drives that the modern T Series Thinkpads have used. The benefit is that you get something thinner, the drawback is that, for a given performance spec, the thinner ones are more expensive and you don't get a large variety if you compare to the abilities of most of the other 12.5mm drives out there made by IBM and others. Depending on what you do, that may or may not be a very important difference.

The T60 does have some material changes as enhancements over the R60 but, again, it depends on how much "road-use" you expect the Thinkpad to go through.

_________________
IBM ThinkPad T43 Model 2668-72U 14.1" SXGA+ 1GB |IBM 701c

~o/
I met someone who looks a lot like you.
She does the things you do.
But she is an IBM.
/~o ---ELO from "Yours Truly 2059"


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 11:04 am 
Offline
Sophomore Member

Joined: Wed Sep 27, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Belgium
Because size/weight doesn't really matter for you, I would compare the pro's and cons of both.

I personally own a R60 wich I transport to school a few times a week. I don't think its too heavy but I'm sure a lighter one would be nice.

If you like working with video (as you're speaking of desktop replacement), a firewire port (for dv camera) and s-video (connect to tv etc.) port are nice.
Imho, infrared isn't needed.

The ultrabay slim might be more expensive, but if it's a desktop replacement, would you actually buy an extra part?

Personally I would choose the T series, with firewire being the biggest drawback.

_________________
R60 - 1.83Ghz Core Duo, 15" SXGA+, ATI Mobility Radeon X1400 (128mb), 2GB RAM, 80GB
Macbook - 2.1Ghz Core 2 Duo, 13.3" WXGA, Nvidea 9400M, 4GB RAM, 120GB (7200rpm)
Personal website (Dutch)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 6:24 pm 
Offline
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Posts: 1477
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
kenatsun wrote:
2. In particular, are there differences that would affect the durability or quality of the machines?


Definitely. R series no longer have IPS (FlexView) displays. The latest model having this option was R51.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Ann Arbor, MI, USA
What are "IPS (FlexView) displays"?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 6:14 am 
Offline
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder

Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Posts: 1477
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
There are several different technologies of LCD displays (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#IPS). Common notebook displays are cheap TN crap, regardless of whether it has the glossy surface or not. The difference between TN a S-IPS is panel is huge. It seems that IBM/Lenovo is currently the only company delivering decent LCD panels but in T series only (R and A used to have them as well in the past) :(


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 10:49 am 
Offline
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder

Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 11:35 pm
Posts: 1053
Location: Singapore.. a tropical country..
Heyyy... Look at my sig please.

T60 is better than the R60. <--from my own personal view and my usage & experience. If you are on a budget, then go ahead and get the R60 if not get yourself a T60. :-)

I travelled around the whole island of Singapore and overseas bringing my T60 and my X60 with me. The rest are kept at home for backup. The R series is my desktop replacement (i am going to sell my HP desktop soon!).

_________________

Forum rulezz..!
:thumbs-UP:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Nov 11, 2006 9:59 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Ann Arbor, MI, USA
FYI, here is how another reviewer (Andrew Baxter, http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2961&review=ThinkPad+R60
characterizes the R60-T60 differences. This accords pretty well with what you have been saying on this forum.

How is the T60 different to the R60?

I think the big question most buyers have (including myself) is what's the difference between the ThinkPad T60 and R60? On paper, it seems that very similar configurations can be made. In fact, the ThinkPad T60 I reviewed earlier in the year had essentially the same specs and performance results as this R60. Except the T60 with the same configuration as this R60 costs about $2,400 while the R60 under review costs about $2,000. Both machines have the same port selection, both offer multi-bay drives that are swappable, both include the excellent Active Protection System for protecting hard drive data, both have a magnesium roll cage, both have an optional biometric finger swipe, both have the same basic look and design -- so is it just the letter 'S' between 'R' and 'T' that separate these things or what?

Well, it's more than an alphabetical difference. The R60 does not use the same case construction as the T60 and it is not as wonderfully thin and light. The lid of the R60 is constructed of plastic while the T60 is made of a mag-alloy -- a sturdier more rugged material. The R60 is for the most part plastic casing, not cheap plastic by any means, it's a rugged enough notebook by its own right, but not as rigid and sturdy as the T60.

Also, the R60 uses the "UltraBay" optical drive bay while the T60 uses the "UltraBay Slim" optical drive bay. The UltraBay Slim is thinner (and necessary due to the T-series being slimmer) and also hot swappable, the regular UltraBay the R60 has is thicker and not swappable on the fly.

There are other differences, such as a Fire GL graphics card being available in the T60 but not the R60, an IPS is screen available in the T60 but not R60, but for the sake of brevity we'll just say basically, the T60 is a premium product designed to take a beating and travel often (if necessary) while the R60 is better suited for small business or education users that won't be flying from New York to LA on a weekly basis, but rather mostly just hanging around town.


~ Thanks for all your input. This is a great forum!
~ Ken


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 11:33 am 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member

Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:45 am
Posts: 334
Location: Santander, Columbia
Hey dude $80 is no money, I wouldn´t doubt it a second, go for the T60. And please tell us where did you find such bargain... (As to the ports get an express card adapter or the dock)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:03 am 
Offline
moderator
moderator

Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 3:52 pm
Posts: 4012
Location: Wash., D.C.
I own a T40, R51 & R52, plus I've owned or had extended access to T41's, T42's, T43's & T60's.

While the material used in manufacturing the lid, and maybe other areas, of a T series may have greater strengh or rigidity qualities, if only a tiny amount is used, the lid won't necessarily be stronger.

I have found that all my R-series are more rigid, both lid and base, than any T model. Both are very solid and rigid, but the R is more so. Perhaps this is attributable to the extra weight.

Whether or not this translates into actual durabilty, is another question. I can not answer, because all keep running.

I think many people want to believe that the T series is better in every way, but it just isn't the case.

The T series is a work of art and a design accomplishment. It looks and feels sleek. It weighs less. You'll love it just by touching it. But it doesn't necessarily compute better or last any longer than an R series.

All that being said, since the differences, including cost, are so negligible, the nod would go to the T. Definitly get a long warranty for either.

One more anecdote. In my hosehold, I use the T series, everyone else use an R series. Why? I feel the T series requires more care, since it is built to the thinnest tolerances. Since this is one of my hobbies, I can render that care. The R just feels more solid and durable, and in fact, they have held up very well with my family plus guests using them every single day.

_________________
T510, i7-620m, NVidia, HD+, 8GB, 180GB Intel Pro 1500 SSD, Webcam, BT, FPR Home
T400s, C2D SP9400, Intel 4500MHD, WXGA+, 8GB, 160GB Intel X18-M G2 SSD, Webcam, BT, FPR Travel
Edge 14 Core i5 | Edge 15 Core i3 | Edge 15 Athlon II X2| Edge 15 Phenom II X4


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 5:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 1:32 pm
Posts: 10
Location: Ann Arbor, MI, USA
I'm still thinking about the IPS (vs TN) screen mentioned by Puppy. Taking your hint that older R-Series models did offer it, I'm looking at an R52 that is said to have a "SXGA+ IPS TFT" 15-inch display. My questions are:

1. Is that the one you (Puppy) are talking about?
2. Is this exactly the same as the "XGA+ IPS TFT FlexView" display that is an option with the T60?

I ask these niggling questions because I'm finding it very hard to tell from the Lenovo site (which has just enough inconsistences, omissions, and errors to make one uneasy) just what comes with each of these packages. (For example, I can't find part numbers, which presumably would make it clear whether they're the same thing or not.)

Would appreciate any guidance anyone can offer.

~ Thanks again
~ Ken


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group