Disappointing 15" Flexview screen

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GeorgeWang · #1 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:52 pm

Just got my new T60 with 15" Flexview LCD screen, I have to say, I am really disappointed the quality of the highly regarded screen.

What really bother me is the sparkle/dusty/noisy screen when white background is displayed, looks dull and dirty. Seems most LCD panel have this kind issue right now, but this one is just too much.

It is a LG panel. Do all Flexview LCD panels look like that? or I got a low quality panel? Should I insist on a screen replacement?

Looking forward to opinions from other Flexview LCD owners.

MD1032 · #2 Post by **MD1032** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:14 pm

Sounds like your screen or graphics adaptor is defective. Post a picture of it, and also make sure the resolution is set to the native resolution, the refresh rate is right, etc.

#3 Post by **gator** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:21 am

No way! Tthe flexview screen is amazing to say the least - the screen is absoltely brilliant with rich, vibrant colors.

Try updating your video drivers and let us know if the issue persists.

own6volvos · #4 Post by **own6volvos** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 12:29 am

The dull/dirty look can mostly be accounted for in the type of finish on it.

Also, only 1 panel is listed in the hardware manual for the 15" 1400x1050 flexview, being the LG.

#5 Post by **dr_st** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:49 am

You're not the first one that complained about the sparkle effect of the LG panel. It doesn't bother most people, but some are just not happy with it.

Puppy · #6 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:38 am

It looks scary. The issue you are complaining of is known for cheap S-IPS panels. Does it mean Lenovo has changed the manufacturer of these panels ? I have R51 1829-L7G model with IPS panel but don't know whether it is LG or IDTech (the thinkwiki page says Samsung, but ...). In any case it does not have this issue which is very visible and disturbing (I've seen it on a Dell and Umax notebooks). Sounds like end of ThinkPads ...

?

Troels · #7 Post by **Troels** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:02 am

Puppy wrote:It looks scary. The issue you are complaining of is known for cheap S-IPS panels. Does it mean Lenovo has changed the manufacturer of these panels ? I have R51 1829-L7G model with IPS panel but don't know whether it is LG or IDTech (the thinkwiki page says Samsung, but ...). In any case it does not have this issue which is very visible and disturbing (I've seen it on a Dell and Umax notebooks). Sounds like end of ThinkPads ... ?

No no no.... Well, IDTech seems to be no more, i believe it was sold to Sony sometime in 2005, i am not sure wether their production is still maintained. Their homepages still exists and works flawlessly.
BOE Hydis is also in the field, producing great flexview screens.
Can anyone post an image of what this sparke on the LG/Philips Flexview screens look like?

Puppy · #8 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:15 am

Troels wrote: BOE Hydis is also in the field, producing great flexview screens.
Can anyone post an image of what this sparke on the LG/Philips Flexview screens look like?

BOE Hydis went bankrupt. As for an image of the LG panel I think it is not that easy to picture the issue by a static image only.

Troels · #9 Post by **Troels** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:37 am

Heh.. i just read a thread two inches down from this stating that they were bankrupt

Bad news... so who's left? Did IDTech leave?

hoya · #10 Post by **hoya** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:44 am

I had the exact same complaint when I evaluated a bunch of ThinkPads. the colors were better on the LG but reading black text on a white backgroung wasn't tolerable to my eyes. I still think the best panel I've seen is the IDTech 15" SXGA+ IPS Flexview panel, which is no longer offered. fwiw, I find that the MacBook Pro suffers from the same sparkle problem.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/11221256@N00/?saved=1

http://home.att.net/~murphj/wsb/html/vi ... html-.html

Puppy · #11 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 9:54 am

Do you have detailed picture of the LG panel ? As for IDTech, SXGA+ IPS panels seems to be still available (N150P3).

#12 Post by **dr_st** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:15 pm

hoya wrote:I had the exact same complaint when I evaluated a bunch of ThinkPads. the colors were better on the LG but reading black text on a white backgroung wasn't tolerable to my eyes. I still think the best panel I've seen is the IDTech 15" SXGA+ IPS Flexview panel, which is no longer offered. fwiw, I find that the MacBook Pro suffers from the same sparkle problem.

The IDTech panel had issues of its own, such as shadowing. Also, the colors weren't as good (as you mentioned) and I think it was also slower.

My LG panel looks fine to me. From all this I still can't understand whether the sparkle effect is something that's only present in some of the LG panels, or inherent to all of them and only noticeable by some people.

Puppy · #13 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 1:58 pm

It is starting to be a mystery. I can not believe that most of T60 owners (typically those who already have older T4x model) wouldn't notice it and complain. Is possible that it affects some series only ?

Anyway I'll visit local Lenovo Think Center and bring my R51 (IDTech panel) to compare the displays myself soon.

GeorgeWang · #14 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:12 pm

The video driver is the latest, screen is at the native resolution, I am pretty sure it is the LCD panel, not the video card or driver.

A picture may not able to reveal the problem, have to compare it with other LCD panels side by side.

My other laptops sparkle a little, do not bother me much, have to look closely to notice that, but the IPS flexview panel does bother me a lot.

Any other flexview LCD owners would like to comment on this.

Maybe it is just me being too picky on this, I am so used to the smoothness of my DELL 1900FP, a rebadged Samsung 191T.

GeorgeWang · #15 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:30 pm

dr_st wrote: My LG panel looks fine to me. From all this I still can't understand whether the sparkle effect is something that's only present in some of the LG panels, or inherent to all of them and only noticeable by some people.

I really want to knew as well, whether all LG panels looks like that or I got a one with poor quality. Unfortunately, I cannot find another one to compare with.

Does white background look noisy or dusty on your panel at normal viewing distance? Or you can try a green background at maximum brightness. On my panel, some pixels are noticably brighter than the others, make it look noisy.

pinesol · #16 Post by **pinesol** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:42 pm

GeorgeWang wrote: I really want to knew as well, whether all LG panels looks like that or I got a one with poor quality. Unfortunately, I cannot find another one to compare with.

Does white background look noisy or dusty on your panel at normal viewing distance? Or you can try a green background at maximum brightness. On my panel, some pixels are noticably brighter than the others, make it look noisy.

Iv'e owned a T60 with the Flexview screen for about 20 days, which I bought directly from Lenovo. I don't know who made the screen (How can you tell?).

I am happy with the screen so far. So you may have gotten a lemon.

#17 Post by **dr_st** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 3:33 pm

GeorgeWang wrote:Does white background look noisy or dusty on your panel at normal viewing distance? Or you can try a green background at maximum brightness. On my panel, some pixels are noticably brighter than the others, make it look noisy.

To me it looks fine, but it does look more sparkly than this other laptop I'm comparing with (el-crappo TN panel on an X32). Therefore I conclude that there is some extra sparkliness to the LG panel, but again, it maybe something that some people are just more sensitive to, or maybe some units just have an abnormally high level of it.

seeplus · #18 Post by **seeplus** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:59 pm

That link to IDTech's page lists a "new" 15" UXGA IPS panel ...

here we go again..

Puppy · #19 Post by **Puppy** » Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:43 pm

BTW I raised the issue in Lenovo's blog: It’s a feature, not a defect
http://www.lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=19

GeorgeWang · #20 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:17 am

Puppy wrote:BTW I raised the issue in Lenovo's blog: It’s a feature, not a defect
http://www.lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=19

Thanks Puppy!
Fortunately, he did not say the sparkling screen is a feature.

I will try to find a local thinkpad service center to have it checked tomorrow. Had sent it to the depot service once already, was sent back as is.

#21 Post by **dr_st** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:10 am

To correct some information, which seems to me inaccurate:

First of all, I don't know of Samsung ever manufacturing a 15" notebook IPS panel (not sure they have any IPS panels at all). I don't know where the guys on Thinkwiki got their info, but the Thinkpad service parts (http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site. ... d=TPAD-FRU) only listed IDTech/LG as manufacturers for the SXGA+ IPS and IDTech/BoeHydis for the UXGA IPS.

The LG panel was already used in the T4x series (I have it on my T42). But back then, IDTech panels were also used. With time, Lenovo started using less IDTech and more LG/Hydis, and on the T60 series, IDTech is not listed as an option at all.

The reasons to ditch IDTech are unknown to me, but complains about severe ghosting, darkening and shadowing could be one of the reasons. The LG, however, has complains about sparkling. On average, I assume that the LG panels are by no means worse than the IDTech panels and probably better.

Not a single person who looked at my laptop ever complained about the sparkle effect, so perhaps it _is_ exaggerated on GeorgeWang's unit.

GeorgeWang: Have you asked other people to look at your screen and tell you whether they notice the sparkle/noise effect?

Puppy: Assuming you have Access IBM installed, can you press the Access IBM button, then go to System Information -> Warranty and Parts? It should tell you exactly which panel you have, including FRU number and description.

Troels · #22 Post by **Troels** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:16 am

Good points, dr_st... Samsung are probably too fond of their own PVA panels, that currently competes with IPS, but at least not in the laptop segment.
The reasons for looking elsewhere than IDtech seem fair, but (to me) it sounds like a horrible solution to skip them, when they can't even acquire other 15" UXGA panels, and then use 15.4" non-IPS instead. Also, the 15" UXGA screens will be offered again at a later time?
Like IDtech, i bet LG has many revisions of their screens, so the one on the T60 is a later revision than what was used in the T4x series.

GeorgeWang · #23 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:29 am

GeorgeWang: Have you asked other people to look at your screen and tell you whether they notice the sparkle/noise effect?

Yes, my wife noticed that as well.
A example, the liquid tab at the top of apple.com homepage looks dull due to this effect.

Scratch · #24 Post by **Scratch** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:57 pm

It seems to me that the high ratings for the 15" UXGA Flexview panels were based on the performance of the original Hydis displays supplied in the T60p (in my case a 2623-DDU). This panel is fantastic with none of the sparkling "noisy" background associated with the later versions supplied by mfrs other than BOE.

It is a shame that the only one who got it right is out of the business. I'm surprised that remaining suppliers haven't snapped up the resources/processes left behind by BOE or perhaps it was the "cost of quality" of the panel that drove them under.

seeplus · #25 Post by **seeplus** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:29 pm

I just received a t60p w/ 15" flexview (sxga+) today, and the screen is the nicest I've seen in any laptop, ever. Slightly more sand than the WUXGA panel in my Dell, but that screen was glossy. Colors and viewability are obviously superior.

Significantly less "sand" than the MacBook Pro.

I sent back a z61p before ordering this system; that screen (a samsung) was so sparkly/sandy that it looked like it was supposed to be that way; a rainbow of colors sparkling wherever you look.

GeorgeWang · #26 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:30 pm

A technician from a local service center came in today had the screen checked. He agreed that it looks pretty sandy and will have the panel replaced.

Hope the replacement looks much better. I will report back.

GeorgeWang · #27 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:08 pm

Got a chance to checkout a new T60 with 14.1 sxga+ dispaly and MBP, the sxga+ is very clean, I should be very happy if my 15" flexview is as clean as that.

MBP at a local apple store looks a little more sandy than my flexview, as I did not bring my T60 to compare with, so it is hard to say how significant it is.

Anyway, it is not acceptable for a screen costing $300+ extra looks sandy at normal viewing distance.

Puppy · #28 Post by **Puppy** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 10:07 am

GeorgeWang wrote:I really want to knew as well, whether all LG panels looks like that or I got a one with poor quality. Unfortunately, I cannot find another one to compare with.

I got 20" UXGA LCD monitor - NEC 2090UXi (A-TW-IPS panel) and it also looks grainy comparing to 15" IDTech one in my ThinkPad

It seems to be a general problem of LG.Philips (the main producer of IPS these days) panels coating. On the other hand the pixel size can make the difference as well.

Unfortunately I didn't have a chance to compare it side-by-side with another 20" IPS panels. I have spent some time reading various forums and the "sandy" look seems to be typical problem of every non-glossy x-IPS panels. One reason could be to make the panel sharp and very anti-reflective which results in such undesired effect ? I agree it is disturbing but you won't notice it after an hour or so.

The best would be to take pictures of various panels and compare it.

GeorgeWang wrote:Hope the replacement looks much better. I will report back.

Is the new replacement better ?

GeorgeWang · #29 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 2:03 pm

I took my time at a local service center to try out a replace LCD panel this morning. It looks about the same, maybe even a little more sandy then mine, so I let them to put my original one back.

It is too bad that seems all LG flexview panel are like that. Looks like I have to live with it. Hoping that the graininess will not bother me much after I used to it.

If you are used to a high quality LCD monitor, better stay way with current flexview screen made by LG. I should be much happier if I ordered the 14" with normal LCD.

Since the price of LCD monitor goes down, the quality of LCD panel goes down sharply as well. I also returned 2 DELL 2407WFP because the grainy/sparkle effect at Christmas time. I would not buy and LCD monitor anymore without seeing it in person.

GeorgeWang · #30 Post by **GeorgeWang** » Tue Jan 09, 2007 11:16 pm

There is a company sell refurb Hydis UXGA panel on ebay for $250, I am think about getting one and replace the LG Panel, this company is in NJ, about 50 minutes drive from where I live.

What do you thing, guys

Disappointing 15" Flexview screen

Disappointing 15" Flexview screen

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