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 Post subject: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 1:36 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:40 am
Posts: 18
Location: Los Gatos, CA
im looking at replacing my old T40p with either a 410 or 410s, leaning toward the 410s

several questions;

first, they have the touchscreen display for free right now; not sure i will ever use it; any advantages/disadvantages to this? i read a few reviews that said the touch display was a bit dimmer, 1/8" thicker, and 1/3 lb heavier, but i cant substantiate any of this. also the regular screen is matt finish, is the multi touch matt also? or is it the shiny screen?

second, battery life; i see the 410s has a rather small battery. just how bad is the battery life under real use? its rated at 4.8 hours, what should i expect - about 3? does the ultrabay battery give you that much more time? it says it is a 3 cell, so should i expect 50% more life over the standard 6 cell?

third, display; either way i go (multi touch or not) , is the display good enough to work with? my old computer has a 1400 x 1050, and this one is only 1440 x 900; my wife has a T400 which is 1280 x 800, and it isnt that great. all the reviews are pretty hard on the display. how good/bad are they?


everything else seems good. the display and battery life are the only issues i see with this model.

thanks for any insight, i want to order one in the next couple days to take advantage of the 10% off.

mark

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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 9:29 am 
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moderator
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 1:33 pm
Posts: 4136
Location: Minnesota
I'd say if you don't have a desire to touch the screen, I'd opt against getting it. The touch capability adds a layer to the LCD, giving it a more grainy look.

The T410s uses a lower wattage battery. Plus there's no 9 cell battery option for the T410s. The modular battery is an option, but it wears quickly because it always discharges first and there's no way to change that.

I've not seen the T410s. It can't be much worse than the older 14" Thinkpad SXGA+ LCDs, none of which were anything special. It's at least brighter.

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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:36 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:13 pm
Posts: 253
FredGarvin wrote:
I've not seen the T410s. It can't be much worse than the older 14" Thinkpad SXGA+ LCDs, none of which were anything special. It's at least brighter.
I own a T410s and your thought "it can't be much worse" was exactly what I thought before I bought the machine. Sadly I was mistaken. As I've said previously, a contrast below 100:1 and high black-level of almost 3 cd/m2, as measured by notebookcheck.net on two separate occasions (T400s/T410s), is objectively the worst of any machine, old and new, unless you want to go way back to the dual-scan machines of the 90s. Yes, panels differ and it's possible you'll get a better one. Yes, brightness is quite good. Yes, people have different priorities and will see this differently. But the statement "it can't be much worse" is so not true. It can be. If you value contrast, low black-levels and reasonable vertical viewing angles you will not likely be happy with the display. If on the other hand you feel brightness, the still 16:10 aspect ratio (as opposed to 16:9) and relatively high resolution is more important, you may well like it.

I was in the same boat with the touchscreen being free when I ordered my machine. It's OK under Windows 7, which implements the inertia-based scrolling, however it is not as responsive as an iPhone. If you've ever worked with touch-input on an Apple product, you will not likely be impressed by either the touchpad or touchscreen responsiveness of the T410s (talking about the gestures, such as the two finger scrolling). Another thing that caught me off guard is my habit of wiping away dust with the outer (non-greasy) part of my hand. This now moves or clicks the mouse. The upshot is I can happily live with just the trackpoint, leaving touchpad and touchscreen turned off.

Yes, the touch-screen will add 4mm height and 300g of weight to the machine. At 30mm thickness at the back and 2.05kg, the machine veers close to the regular T410. The good thing about the thicker display lid is that it's rigid and will not twist, unlike the thin lids on some of the Sonys, Toshibas and possibly the regular T410s.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:57 am 
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By the way, the screen is matte, but less so than screens used to be. If a new Apple Macbook qualifies as 100% glossy and an older "standard" matte screen (e.g. my Thinkpad T30) as 0% glossy, I'd categorise the T410s touch-screen as maybe 35%. Whether that's a feature of the touch-screen overlay or every T410s, I cannot say.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:04 pm 
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 8:11 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Hannover, Germany
Definitely go for the T410s without MT!

Why?

1. MT adds a layer that significantly dims the display and makes the screen look grainy. I don't think that you'd end up using MT that often since the position to use it is kinda uncomfy in my eyes. Threre's a reason why Lenovo offers the MT option at no cost.
And I don't think it's because of it's wide popularity.
2. MT adds significant weight and size to the slim machine which kinda defeats its purpose.
3. It might be true however, that the layer adds some sturdiness to the display. Just make sure you get TPP to address this issue in the future!
4. In general, the T410s is as slim as my old X201t and comes in at around the same weight. This gives it a huge advantage over regular T410!
5. Battery life however it sub par at around 3,5 hrs in regular office / web use. Might wanna get the extra 3 cell ultrabay battery!

Misc.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Joined: Thu Jan 20, 2005 8:27 pm
Posts: 891
Location: Manhattan, NY
Wait for the 410s refresh (follow-on model) to start shipping and see if the specs are more to your liking. Newer refresh Lenovo models were announced in early Jan. Then either get the 410s refresh or save money getting the 410s.

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X201s: 1440x900 LED backlit 2.13 GHz, 8 GB, 160 GB Intel X25-M Gen 2 SSD, 6200 a/b/g/n, BT, 6-cell, 9-cell, Windows 7 Ultimate x64 SP1, Verizon 4G LTE USB modem, USB 2.0 external optical drive, Lenovo USB to DVI converter
Previous Models: A21p, A30p, A31p, T42, X41T, X60s, X61s, X200s


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:40 am
Posts: 18
Location: Los Gatos, CA
dfumento wrote:
Wait for the 410s refresh (follow-on model) to start shipping and see if the specs are more to your liking. Newer refresh Lenovo models were announced in early Jan. Then either get the 410s refresh or save money getting the 410s.


any info on the refresh?

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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:19 am 
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Joined: Sat May 01, 2010 8:11 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Hannover, Germany
Usually Lenovo refreshes begin shipping at around April / May when they're announced in January. But I wouldn't count on it.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:44 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 28, 2005 4:13 pm
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misc wrote:
Usually Lenovo refreshes begin shipping at around April / May when they're announced in January. But I wouldn't count on it.
That matches my experience. I bought my T410s when it finally became available in late April 2010. There is probably a strong chance that the new model will have a 16:9 screen; wait for the announcement. If you're looking for 16:10, that might clinch selection of the older model.


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:20 am 
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2007 6:20 pm
Posts: 1597
Location: Wash, DC
As you'll see from my signature, I had a ...,T400, T410 and now a T410s. This is all within the space of a few months also and i'll tell you why. I had a really nice T400, more than powerful enough (P8600) and thin and light (for a 14" machine). Ended up getting the T410 (Core i5, WXGA) because of the "Jones's" so got a nice deal and loved that. After about a month of using it the weight and general bulk of the machine made me not like it as much. It was super fast and definitely handled everything i wanted to do with it but it was just big (IMO). The T410 gave me good battery life for the 6 cell. I sold that one and got the T410s machine and got the Core I3 version since i definitely didn't need all that power.

Pros:
T410 -
- Much better battery life (and options)
- Better LCD (IMO)
- 2.5" Drives (cheaper options in SSDs)
- Sturdy as a result of the thicker con below.

Cons: (mainly asthetics which may not matter to you)
- Heavy machine - 5.2lbs is a lugger all day
- Thick (1.02 -1.26") doesn't feel as svelte as the the older T4x series which i loved.
- Hotter with fan noise



Pro:
T410s -
- Really light, 3.79lbs feels like AIR!
- Nice and thin, .89" just looks so slim on my desktop and carrying in my bag
- Much cooler (maybe Core i3?) - no fan noise on battery.
- Like the layout better of ports (personal choice)
- Easier RAM changing (personal again :D)

Cons:
- Well it's definitely bad (compared) in battery life. 3.5Hrs MAX for normal office usage (not a problem for me really)
- 1.8" Drives are slower - only 5400RPM and SSDs are more expensive.
- LCDs are worse but they aren't much worse, honestly it doesn't bother me much at all.
- Extended battery options severly limited because of main battery location.


That's all i can think of now but i still love this thing more than any other Thinkpad i've had in a while. The T40 was my first MAJOR love (but we all know about the flex issues since it was so thin). The T410s is now number #2 but doesn't have the flex issues and is even thinner!

As for the option listed, i'd take the T410s (obviously) over the T410.

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Current - Thinkpad T410si - Core i3 330m, 4GB, 250GB 5400RPM, WXGA+, FPR, BT, Camera, DVDRW, Gobi2000, Win7 Pro x32
Past - Thinkpad T410 - T400 - T61 - T60 - T43 - T42 - T41 - T40 - T23 - 600X


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:03 pm 
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Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:15 pm
Posts: 84
Location: Winchester, United Kingdom
markgca wrote:
any info on the refresh?
See http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/Lenovo-CES- ... m-p/352357


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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 11:40 am
Posts: 18
Location: Los Gatos, CA
ok, LOTS of great information here, THANKS GUYS!!!!

so im still undecided; im upgrading from my T40p (still a great computer, but on its last legs performance wise; it needs more memory and an ssd to continue, but technology wont allow it)

my wife has a 400 she just got from work; its ok, but a bit heavy/big for my taste.

did go to all the local stores; one had a down version of the 410s on display, although none in stock. no ssd, etc., but it did give me a chance to check out the display, and i think it would work out well. the battery life, well, i guess ive resigned myself to get the aux battery to boost that a bit.

but now with the sandy bridge chips out, im wondering if i should wait a month or so. Not so much for the performance increase, but more to see if lenovo fixes any of the issues mentioned in the thread.

but the price will definately be higher; i can get the full up version, with just about everything including:
    ultimate 64
    nvs graphics
    8gb dram
    intel ssd
    blue tooth
    centrino n6300mobile broadband gobi 2000
for $1906 after all the coupons/discounts. dont think the new one will be anywhere close to that.


i have 2 days to decide until the extra 10% coupon expires.

mark

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 Post subject: Re: 410 vs 410S etc.
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 1:33 pm
Posts: 4136
Location: Minnesota
If you can wait it may put some downward pressure on the cost of a T410s if that's the way you decide to go.

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