RE: Dishonest Sellers

[qviri]

Shipping stuff across the border with UPS is asking for trouble.

[joester]

What then, is the best way?

Joe

[Robbyrobot]

What then, is the best way?

Based on my experience as a recipient - in Germany - of parcels from the U.S. over the last 30 years or so, I would have to say: USPS. I've always gotten parcels sent to me, and although the shipping times were often very long (first class up to 6 weeks, airmail up to 3 weeks), the service was reliable.

The one time I received a UPS parcel from the States was in the early 1990s, and it was a catastrophe: long shipping time, twice as expensive as normal postage and an incorrect customs declaration that cost me a bundle in duties. The case was so bad that I complained bitterly to UPS in the States (the German UPS ignored complaints) and received a refund of the shipping charges.

My personal opinion: UPS may be great inside the USA, but I would avoid it like the plague for international parcels.

[ms5133]

I deal with Canada Customs on a daily basis. and let me assure you that there is no way they could levy any kind of fee or charge to a shipper in another country.

UPS may have added some spurious and inflated import fees, and not knowing exactly what the shipping arrangements were between you and Compnerd4, I would find it very unusual that you
would have to pay extra.

I just don't want shippers in the U.S. to get the idea that they would be responsible for any charges levied after the fact in Canada. Its hard enought to see deals pass us Canadians by because our neighbours( yes in Canada its spelled with a u) to the south are leery of shipping to Canada.

If I were in the U.S. and I was shipping to Canada, I would use USPS if at all possible with tracking.

Of the courier companies.. my experience is that UPS is the most problematic.

[scosgt1]

I have had very good results with USPS. But if you need to make a claim, you do need to be persistant. It is a government type agency, and everone is trained to pass the buck. I had some Money Orders lost one time, and they tried to get me to not make the claim. I insisted. THEN, when I handed them the form, they did not want to give me a receipt, saying they would "mail it to me". Uh Uh, I demanded a supervisor, and then the supervisors supervisor. Eventually the assistant Post Master (this is a LARGE non-City Post Office) gave me a receipt for the form. Strangely, a few days later the money order showed up. Like magic. The problem is that they are all afraid someone will "get into trouble", so they just want you to go away. There is a customer complaint form that you sent to headquarters. DEMAND the form and send it in. You will get action so fast your head will spin!

[AHuan]

I'll have to send money for compensation or something. Is that $50US, or Canadian?

To clear things up a bit...
This was a UPS carried package and Canadian Customs held it. Canadian Customs has added the fees. Not sure what all triggered my package as being a target, but something must have.

Compnerd4,
I'm still interested in the parts you have, and still want them. I'll PM you.

Fun fact:
For the cost of delivering the package through UPS, I could have driven the items and delivered them personally. Oh well.

Joe

I had this sort of thing happen to at least twice with ups. The most recent was this:

I ordered something from the states (I am in canada,) it was $60 (all $ in cnd). Then I paid $12 to have it shipped by ups. They left a notice on my door asking for $41 before I could have my package.

According to their web site and a customer rep, when a package shipped by ups gets to the border, ups pays the customs duty/tax on it to supposedly speed up delivery, and they charge you for this service.

For me the total of both the customs and "brokerage fee" was $41.

[scosgt1]

From what I have read on various sites, USPS is MUCH better for getting things thru without duty. Supposedly EVERYTHING that goes FedEX gets hit with tax, and UPS is not far behind. Of course, this is the responsibility of the buyer, NOT the seller. In fact, I would not give any compensation at all. The is the buyers problem, nothing is taxed leaving the country, only entering his country, and he has to figure that in as part of the cost of the item.

Yet another reason I don't ship international. Who wants to get caught up in this nonsense?

[ms5133]

Ahuan..you do not have to pay the UPS fee..Anyone can clear a personal package through Canada Customs.


It will take you about 30 mins, as long its a personal(ie you are not a business) shipment.
When you get your tracking nbr. you tell UPS you will clear customs yourself. They cannot make you use their service.

Your decision if the fee is worth your time and effort.

scotsgt1..do not really understand your hesitation in shipping to Canada.

As you say.. the hassles are the consignees, not yours. I think most people in Canada understand the customs issue and if they are willing to put up with it, it seems to me you are shutting out a lot of potential customers. Anyway..your call.

[scosgt1]

For one thing, consider this:
The person on the other end can balk at the Customs tax and refuse the package. Then I have to pay to get it back. Then he makes a PayPal dispute for non-delivery and I am out the freight both ways. No thanks

[ms5133]

Escrow? Money order?

[AHuan]

From what I have read on various sites, USPS is MUCH better for getting things thru without duty. Supposedly EVERYTHING that goes FedEX gets hit with tax, and UPS is not far behind. Of course, this is the responsibility of the buyer, NOT the seller. In fact, I would not give any compensation at all. The is the buyers problem, nothing is taxed leaving the country, only entering his country, and he has to figure that in as part of the cost of the item.

Yet another reason I don't ship international. Who wants to get caught up in this nonsense?

Hey, scotsgt1, that's not cool. It's not a matter of shipping international.

I would like to clarify too: Yes, UPS is evil and bad, never use them I'll be sending an email to the merchant asking them to at least switch to fedex. Use USPS instead, I have never had any problem with them. Use registered post at least, of course, and make sure you get the "signature required" option on there, or they might just leave it on the doorstep.


I also want to point out that the whole customs, at least for canada, thing is not as complicated as urban legend has made it out to be.

When I bought my computer, I called the customs service - they have a 1800 number, though it's pretty well buried. I wanted a straight answer for exactly how much it would cost me to get a used r60e thinkpad worth and declared as worth $900 into my hands, all things considered, from the US. I asked nicely and they were quite good about telling me exactly. Here is what they said.

EVERYTHING that a private individual imports technically should be charged for at customs, with some tiny exeptions that won't save or lose you more than a couple bucks. But customs doesn't have time to inspect everything so sometimes they let things through without charging you anything, this is just luck of the draw and isn't really supposed to happen. It also doesn't happen very often, less than %20 of the time, according to them.

What gets charged?

You pay the tax you would have paid if a normal person had bought the item you are importing locally from an ordinary local business. You'll know what it is if you live there. So in ontario, you'd pay gst and pst - exactly 15 percent of the computer's declared worth, unless they think it's worth significantly more than you say it is, in which case they might adjust the value some, but so long as you're being honest that's highly unlikely. You can call them and get the details, or check their web site.

You also may have to pay some duties on some - but only a select few types of - items. To find out exactly what these duties are, simply call the customs service and ask - you have to tell them exactly what you are importing of course and where from. It doesn't matter if it's sent by fedex or whoever, that's not part of the duty charges. There is no duty on computers.


Then you have to pay the shipping company, and for those rules of course you must ask the shipping company. If you send something by USPS there might be a $5 handling charge when it gets transferred to canada post on this side of the border, but that's not part of customs and it's never more than $5.

So there doesn't really have to be any unexpected charges with regards to customs themselves, certainly nothing serious. The only potential uncertainty here is the shipping company, and you can't blame us canadians for that.

Edit- That's ALL that get's charged, I made sure I asked that specificaly, to make sure they weren't leaving something out because it didn't apply to me. I've left out the small stuff that only makes a couple bucks difference here, but they had no trouble telling it to me over the phone.

[AHuan]

For one thing, consider this:
The person on the other end can balk at the Customs tax and refuse the package. Then I have to pay to get it back. Then he makes a PayPal dispute for non-delivery and I am out the freight both ways. No thanks

Are you sure you have to pay to get it back? I don't think the shipping company could charge you for it - they could just throw it in the trash. When UPS returned my parcel, it was included in the shipping price I originally paid - the merchant didn't get charged again. I think that's the way it would always go - seems the most reasonable to me, like returned mail.

[compnerd4]

[quote=ms5133]
UPS may have added some spurious and inflated import fees, and not knowing exactly what the shipping arrangements were between you and Compnerd4, I would find it very unusual that you
would have to pay extra. [/quote]

I am paying for the charges!


i understand that i should pay the charges!

and I have talked to Joe and told him i had no problem paying the charges!

[ms5133]

As you can see this is a subject very dear to the hearts of many of us Canucks on this board.

scosgt1..no one disputes your right to sell to whoever, wherever , whenever you want..we just want to get it out there to other potential sellers that shipping to Canada,(and I,m sure to many other international destinations) is not as complicated or fraught with pitfalls as it may seem.

All Canada customs wants is a signed, dated invoice with description and value and Bob's your uncle.

[rbena]

From what I have read on various sites, USPS is MUCH better for getting things thru without duty. Supposedly EVERYTHING that goes FedEX gets hit with tax, and UPS is not far behind. Of course, this is the responsibility of the buyer, NOT the seller. In fact, I would not give any compensation at all. The is the buyers problem, nothing is taxed leaving the country, only entering his country, and he has to figure that in as part of the cost of the item.

Yet another reason I don't ship international. Who wants to get caught up in this nonsense?

Bruce, I guess you do have a point about FedEx and international shipping. I remember watching a movie about their company called "Castaway".

[scosgt1]

They DID deliver the package after all!

[ScoCul]

For those of us affiliated with the US military overseas (APO/FPO), USPS is a necessity. The pricing is cheaper and more importantly, you don't have to deal with the customs hassles.

I've many times gone with one vendor over another simply because they offered APO/FPO in their order form drop-down box! A few years ago, there was even a website created that specifically noted companies that were "APO/FPO friendly"....

Just my $.02....

Sc.