in the market for a solid t23- questions

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shredfitz · #1 Post by **shredfitz** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:02 am

Based on everything that I have read and considering my budget, I am eager to find a well equipped t23 in exceptional condition. Apart from the for sale/trade section on this board and ebay, does anyone have any other suggestions as to where I might find a deal ? Also, I am expecting to pay betweeen 350-500 dollars for this well equipped, very good condition t23. Is this reasonable? I appreciate your input.

#2 Post by **dorronto** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:17 am

shredfitz wrote:Based on everything that I have read and considering my budget, I am eager to find a well equipped t23 in exceptional condition. Apart from the for sale/trade section on this board and ebay, does anyone have any other suggestions as to where I might find a deal ? Also, I am expecting to pay betweeen 350-500 dollars for this well equipped, very good condition t23. Is this reasonable? I appreciate your input.

Please define what a "well equipped T23" is to you...

Everyone has different meanings........

Thanks and welcome aboard Thinkpads.com!

Ron

shredfitz · #3 Post by **shredfitz** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 11:35 am

Well.... 512 ram. dvd-rom or preferably a cdrw/dvd rom combo, internal wireless, xp pro, 30gb hard drive or more. Basically I would settle for less as far as ram and hard drive are concerned as I could upgrade those items down the road. I just want the machine to be solid and in very good condition and hold up for at least a year or two. I will be using this basically for school, e-mail, web, storage of audio files, wordgames ect.

#4 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:19 pm

You might want to do some more research. For $500 or less, you should be able to find a nice T40. Aside from the built-in wireless, it has USB 2.0 ports - a HUGE benefit if you use a digital camera, flash memory, or an iPod!

Try to snag one with warranty remaining.

pianowizard · #5 Post by **pianowizard** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:34 pm

shredfitz, do you need the display to be SXGA+? If XGA is good enough, then it should be fairly easy to get a mint-condition T23 with the specs you want for under $300. If you want SXGA+, then you would probably need to spend close to $400. However, as underclocker suggested, if you are willing to spend $500, you can get a T40 instead. I would not look into the T30 though, which seems to be only marginally better than the T23 functionally, and is heavier and more expensive.

As far as sources, eBay and this forum have, by far, the best deals. If you look at the traders feedback thread, you will see that everyone who has purchased Thinkpads here has been happy so far. It's riskier on eBay -- I have had (usually minor) problems with about 40% of the laptops purchased there -- so it's important to read the sellers' feedback.

#6 Post by **underclocker** » Mon Oct 09, 2006 8:43 pm

And another thing!

Why not an R51?! My R51 gets more use and takes more abuse than any other machine in my house. It is used constantly. I'm using it to type this message. It's practically identical to the T40 and even shares several parts.

One is for sale by a reputable board member for $360 - http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=31576

Use it as is with the Celeron cpu or grab a Pentium M on eBay for as little as $30 to extend battery life and speed it up a little (mine began life as a Celeron, too). Either way, it blows away T23's and T30's.

Few people on this board give R-series laptops any credit. They are great and the 14" models don't weight that much.

shredfitz · #7 Post by **shredfitz** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:20 am

Thanks you to those of you who have responded to my post. You have helped open my eyes to a couple of other options that I may not have considered.

dsigma6 · #8 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:45 am

underclocker wrote:Few people on this board give R-series laptops any credit. They are great and the 14" models don't weight that much.

It depends what you're talking about. I have no experience with the R51, but if I had to base opinion of the ThinkPad name on the R40 (p4-m) I owned, I would never purchase another. Heavy, surprisingly slow and way too hot. Plus it felt like it would break if I looked at it the wrong way.

#9 Post by **underclocker** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 9:58 am

Bro, I think you were new to the ThinkPad world when you picked up that used and abused lemon from eBay. The Pentium M R40's are very good - fast, long battery life, cool running and solid. The Pentium 4M models, like yours, was not great, just basic.

I've had four Pentium M R40's and they were all fine. One was my main machine for a year. That being said, the R5x's are much better, very similar to the T4x's.

You should pick up an R51 for fun, they are available for under $400.

dsigma6 · #10 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:06 am

Uh oh...slingin' Bro at me? Haha..

As I said, I can't speak for the R5X, and I was only speaking of the R40 pentium 4-m. As far as I know, there is no physical change between an R40 regardless of which processor it came with (correct me if I'm wrong.) Compared to a T2X, and anything of a similar build, it's pathetic! I had a 600E before the R40, and it made it laughable to me. You don't need to defend it as a child, because I owned one too, and don't like having owned a disappointing laptop.

The P4M was basic, but at the time I didn't know much about it. You may in fact have been one of the people that introduced the model to me, if memory serves me right.

Also, it wasn't a lemon. It had HD failure which was replaced, but I'm not judging this on any particular component/screen, just the overall feel of the plastic and sturdiness.

edit: I should add that I'm aware that the R40 was not supposed to be as sturdy as the T series it was modeled after, as a means of cutting costs. That being said, I'm turning my statement into a moot point.

#11 Post by **carbon_unit** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 10:30 am

I have bought and sold a couple of R51's recently and although they are a little thicker and slightly heavier than my T42 they ran very well and have a built in floppy drive to boot. Both customers paid more than $500.00 for them and they are happy! I have no problem recommending an R51.

BruisedQuasar · #12 Post by **BruisedQuasar** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:05 am

I would not be so quick to throw out your original T23 decision. I have owned several top of the line, for their time, portables, laptops, notebooks. I used them primarily for on the road business use: Tandy, Toshiba, Fujitsu, Compaq (when Compaq was very expensive and a world leader in laptop PCs).

I learned about Thinkpads from Computing magazine gerus who mentioned them when they discussed what they take on the road. Well, the most unique, most useful portable I owned I learned about from the Gerus. Two mentioned that on the road writers have a secret, they use the amazing British Sinclair Z-88. This was 1990! Z-88 was a fraction of cost of the very heavy "Laptops" of the day, weighed about 20 OZ, was under 2" thick. Ran on 2 AA alkaline batteries, instant on and off, major programs on hardware (ROM), added programs and memory with a Game boy looking card. Built in Phone/Fax modem. Full page length 8 line LCD display. It was a tablet computer with British Basic OZ O/S. $400 new.

I came and read hundreds of Posts here at this forum and decided on a T23. Remember, I owned several over $2.000 top of the line laptop PCs beginning with the 28 pound V-20 the faster Intel 8088 clone processor.

I loved the Z-88 but the T23 is the first notebook PC I actually enthusiastically like. It is thin, lightweight and unusually user repairable and modifiable. Adding a crown to this is a large number of enthusiasts own a T23 and the Thinkpad series, in general, has an excellent, active user support group, this one.

Enthusiasts can invest days into discussing the ultimate computer but if I were you I would go with the wise advice you got in this thread that you cannot go wrong with a T23.

Ask some of the enthusiasts here how many PCs they own. You'll be surprised. Then, ask do they need them all? I am a realistic, practical guy but I own Three Dell Desktops, two NEC 7XX series Handheld PCs, One HP Jornada Handheld, a T23, a Compaq, 2 Casio BE-300s.

Most of the time I use my T23. I can move it around, it uses much less electricity and for in the home use it is far more practical than my handhelds or Casios. I have them for mobile use. I find notebook PCs are still portable lugabout desktop PCs, inferior to a good handheld for mobile use. My NECs & Jornada give 7-8 hours per charge active use, weigh less than 2pounds, have no moving parts to break, are instant on and off and never need to be unpacked, repacked, guarded. Jornada's fit in a coat pocket. NECs slide right into my hipsack.

Oh, I have admired the TP A30p and the TP R51 and T60 but I do not need one. I'll keep using my T23 until I cannot fix it anymore and I insisted on one with Windows 2000. It is a smaller, faster close cousin to XP and it is fully under MY control. Reformating , partitioning, and reinstalling Win 2000 and reinstalling the drivers is a breeze. No $%^& Microsoft WGA utility, I could use my full install 2000 SP3 CD on every desktop and notebook I own, if I wanted.

I paid $370 for a like-new off-lease factory refurbished T23 with the specs you want from a Tiger Direct special. It is the ONLY notebook PC I have ever used that I am attached to.

#13 Post by **underclocker** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:26 am

dsigma6; I mean bro in a positive way...and...I'm just saying, the R40 with a Pentium M is/was the way to go. Yes, the plastic is inferior to the T-series, but a clean and cared for unit feels solid and tight.

BruisedQuasar is correct, as usual, however, with prices between T23's, R51's & T40's so close, selecting a T23 doesn't seem like the best option. T23's usually lack wireless, definitely lack USB 2.0, and definitely lack a Pentium M processor.

Is swapping a T23 for an R51 or T40 worthwhile? That may be a tougher call.

Website · #14 Post by **tfflivemb2** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 12:01 pm

underclocker wrote:dsigma6; I mean bro in a positive way...and...I'm just saying, the R40 with a Pentium M is/was the way to go. Yes, the plastic is inferior to the T-series, but a clean and cared for unit feels solid and tight.

I agree with underclocker...my R40 rocks. It feels solid (for an R series) and it doesn't get hot (even with a 2.2GHz cpu)

shredfitz · #15 Post by **shredfitz** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:11 pm

sheesh ! Thanks for the input. I said that I wanted to score one of these for 350-500 max. From what I can tell, the r51, the t23, the t40 and the like can all be had in that price range. Integrated wireless is important, as is usb 2. All of that said, is integrated wireless in a t23 that rare ? Will a usb2 card be that big of difference as far as speed if I were to use one of those in a t23 ? Like I said, this machine will mostly be used for the internet, mail, school and playing the occasional dvd's when I am elsewhere. I am not a gamer, I won't be editing photos. I must admit that I feel a little more confused than I did when I made the original post. Bottom line- what will give me the most bang for my very hard earned meager income ? What will last and what is easiest to upgrade/ repair ?

Kaervak · #16 Post by **Kaervak** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 1:20 pm

One other site to add is craigslist.org. It does have it's drawbacks as you have to be a little careful who you deal with. There are scammers on there, but they're usually very obvious. It usually doesn't have the selection of eBay, but you can find deals if you watch for them. I got my T23 from craigslist for $75 and all I had to do was resolder a couple inductors on the motherboard and pick up some replacements parts to get everything fully up and running. So far I'm up to $140 for a nicely configed T23.

Keep your eyes open and you'll stumble on a great deal.

shredfitz · #17 Post by **shredfitz** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:01 pm

Wow Kaervak, sounds like you got yourself an excellent deal. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about soldering inductors.

Kaervak · #18 Post by **Kaervak** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:20 pm

shredfitz wrote:Wow Kaervak, sounds like you got yourself an excellent deal. Unfortunately, I don't know anything about soldering inductors.

I got extremely lucky. I probably wouldn't have figured out what was wrong if one of those inductors didn't fall off the motherboard.

If you're somewhat handy at computer repair picking up a "needs repair" system from eBay might be a decent option.

pianowizard · #19 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:34 pm

shredfitz wrote:sheesh ! Thanks for the input. I said that I wanted to score one of these for 350-500 max. From what I can tell, the r51, the t23, the t40 and the like can all be had in that price range.

And the T23 can be had well below that range, unless you want a top-of-the-line model like the one I own.

shredfitz wrote:Integrated wireless is important, as is usb 2. All of that said, is integrated wireless in a t23 that rare ? Will a usb2 card be that big of difference as far as speed if I were to use one of those in a t23 ?

T23's with integrated wireless are somewhat rare, but still easy to find on eBay. Mine has integrated wireless. As far as USB 2, I am using a PCMCIA card for that. I don't notice any difference in speed than built-in USB 2.

shredfitz wrote:Bottom line- what will give me the most bang for my very hard earned meager income ? What will last and what is easiest to upgrade/ repair ?

I am now more convinced that the T23 is ideal for you. You can get a really nice one for under $300. I got my first T23 for $165 shipped on eBay; it was in mint condition. Of the 20-something laptops I have used, the T23 is one of the very few that I have really really liked, and I prefer it to some other much more powerful laptops, perhaps including the T43.

#20 Post by **rkawakami** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 2:36 pm

Kaervak wrote:If you're somewhat handy at computer repair picking up a "needs repair" system from eBay might be a decent option.

Shh!.... you're going to blow my method of obtaining cheap T23s off of eBay

!

Kaervak · #21 Post by **Kaervak** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 3:00 pm

rkawakami wrote:
Kaervak wrote:If you're somewhat handy at computer repair picking up a "needs repair" system from eBay might be a decent option.
Shh!.... you're going to blow my method of obtaining cheap T23s off of eBay !

shredfitz · #22 Post by **shredfitz** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:05 pm

[censored] pianowizard ! 165 mint condition ? When was that and how was it equipped ?

pianowizard · #23 Post by **pianowizard** » Tue Oct 10, 2006 5:15 pm

shredfitz wrote:[censored] pianowizard ! 165 mint condition ? When was that and how was it equipped ?

I bought it on eBay on 11 Aug 2006. The model # was 2647-8MU with the following specs, including the WinXP Pro COA sticker:

PIII-M 1.13GHz (512KB), 256MB RAM, 30.0GB HDD, 14.1 XGA(1024x768) TFT LCD, 8X-3.3X DVD-ROM, Modem(MPCI), Ethernet(CDC), TV out, Li-Ion battery, WinXP Pro

Just search for T23 on eBay several times a day and I bet that within a week you will come across a great unit for under $200 shipped.

#24 Post by **underclocker** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:32 am

I think we've beaten this horse, but, perhaps this is the bottom line;

$200-$300 - get a T23
$300-$400 - get an R51
$400-$500 - get a T40

But remember, the price difference between any is basically the cost of dinner for two in just about any town or city. Cook home one weekend and move up to the next machine. Cook home twice and you'll have a T40 in your lap (if nothing else!)

Good luck.

shredfitz · #25 Post by **shredfitz** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:06 pm

underclocker wrote:I think we've beaten this horse, but, perhaps this is the bottom line;

$200-$300 - get a T23
$300-$400 - get an R51
$400-$500 - get a T40

But remember, the price difference between any is basically the cost of dinner for two in just about any town or city. Cook home one weekend and move up to the next machine. Cook home twice and you'll have a T40 in your lap (if nothing else!)

Good luck.

I like the perspective that you have put this in with the dinner and all. The problem is I don't have any fat to cut out of my budget to begin with, which is why I have interest in a used Thinkpad .Thanks again to you and everyone else who posted to this thread, you have all informed me very well. It looks like I am gonna end up with the t23 for the time being and hope to add another machine in the not so distant future. I look forward to everyone's input and I hope that as time goes by, I will be a thinkpad know-it-all like everyone else !

#26 Post by **carbon_unit** » Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:43 pm

There is nothing wrong with a T23. Load it up with memory and a fast hard drive and it will serve you well.

in the market for a solid t23- questions

in the market for a solid t23- questions

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