Problem getting user Orevin to complete deal

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#1 Post by **Harryc** » Fri May 25, 2007 9:31 am

Last week Orevin (a 2 year member of this forum with 493 plus posts and several recommends in the good sellers thread) sold me a T41/P that he had posted in the 'Marketplace' forum.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#285942

This machine was going to be for my son's college use. Among the deciding factors in my decision to purchase from him was the recommendation of one of the forum Moderators in this thread;

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#135680

and the list of deals in this post -

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... ht=#132530

Not to mention several other recommends from members just like you in threads spread out all over the forum.

On Friday 5/19, in trade for the T41/P I negotiated a deal with and shipped Orevin a USPS Money order in the amount of $350 plus a very nice little T21 of mine that I had hand restored and upgraded over time. I had delivery tracking on the package with insurance and it was delivered by the USPS in Chicago on Monday 5/21 to Orevin's provided address.

Now for the problem - he had promised same day shipment to me and I have not seen the T41P yet, nor have I heard from Orevin, despite my attempts to contact him via PM and private email. He has not logged onto the forum since the day I shipped the package to him. Normally that would not concern me too much because I realize people have lives and 'S' happens, but out of curiosity I did a reverse lookup (online) on his address. The first clue something is up is that there's a different name associated with that address. So, I called the phone number listed and it is a disconnected number. I will probably have to give this several more days to pan out, but it looks like I will be dealing with the Chicago Police and the US Post Office for mail fraud this coming week. To add insult to injury this prick actually made me take pictures of the T21 and put them online so that he could see if he liked the T21. What kind of a person hangs out on a forum selling lowball parts for 2 years waiting for one score? In retrospect this wasn't really any kind of a 'large' score, so if you're reading this Orevin and chuckling to yourself, you really didn't do a good job of working this forum at all. You must be a lousy thief, you're certainly not an intelligent one.

So, as far as the self perceived 'good ole boys' club in this Marketplace forum, forget about that. Nobody is trustworthy 100%, no one. I can find the threads and post them here, but I saw several where sentiments are expressed to the effect of ' we treat each other well here' . Those sentiments are pure and utter BS. If you don't believe me read this post again.

I also want to add that the forum Admins here have been fully cooperative in helping identify any possible additional information about this member, and I do appreciate that.

Advice?

#2 Post by **gator** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:17 pm

Wow, I am stumped, surprised and saddened. I will wait to see how this develops, and I hope you get your machine. Please update as to what happens, I still cannot believe a forum member did that.

#3 Post by **Kyocera** » Fri May 25, 2007 4:35 pm

I think there may be more to this story, not to take anything away from Harry, i feel for you, but the mods and admins are working diligently on this issue.

#4 Post by **Harryc** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:00 am

Kyocera wrote:I think there may be more to this story...

The only ending to the story I see so far is me without my cash and laptop. Is there a better ending?

#5 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:47 am

I know how you feel.
A couple of years ago a forum member (not longstanding, I should have known better

) took me for $1000.00. Bill did not like this type of thing happening on his forum and helped as much as he could.
I did eventually get my money back through a chargeback on my CC to paypal. Paypal was completely unresponsive until I got the chargeback.
There is a limit to how much we can do here at the forum, but we will do all we can. I was surprised at how resourceful everyone here was back then.
I hope it turns out well for you.

The guy emailed me about 6 months later and tried to rub some salt into the wound. I told him to meet me somewhere.

#6 Post by **Harryc** » Sat May 26, 2007 6:53 am

carbon_unit wrote:I know how you feel.
A couple of years ago a forum member (not longstanding, I should have known better ) took me for $1000.00. Bill did not like this type of thing happening on his forum and helped as much as he could.
I did eventually get my money back through a chargeback on my CC to paypal. Paypal was completely unresponsive until I got the chargeback.
There is a limit to how much we can do here at the forum, but we will do all we can. I was surprised at how resourceful everyone here was back then.
I hope it turns out well for you.

The guy emailed me about 6 months later and tried to rub some salt into the wound. I told him to meet me somewhere.

The staff here have been great and I appreciate it. The only thing that might help get some money back is that I did use a USPS money order. I am hoping I can file with the USPS for theft. Also I did have insurance on the laptop, but at this point I do not know if that applies to theft after delivery...probably not. If anyone knows some more about USPS money orders and insurance please let me know. I am heading to the PO today if I can.

#7 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:23 am

Harryc wrote: Also I did have insurance on the laptop, but at this point I do not know if that applies to theft after delivery...probably not.

Probably not, I think it has to be delivered to the PO. Even then the shipper has to file the claim and the PO sends the money to him.
I have used postal money orders before but never had a problem so I don't know what the rules are.
My rule (since the $1000.00 incident) is to be sure to use a credit card to fund large purchases so there is some recourse. If I can't use a CC the seller can sell it to someone else. Most sellers can accept CC funded paypal.

pianowizard · #8 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat May 26, 2007 7:50 am

Harryc, I am sorry to hear about this. I hope it will be resolved soon.

To prevent something similar from happening again, perhaps Bill can require that all transactions involving over say $300 be done through his Escrow?

#9 Post by **Kyocera** » Sat May 26, 2007 8:52 am

bill, does do some escrow transactions, but seems like he would be even more busier (good english) if the threshold was set that low.

pianowizard · #10 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat May 26, 2007 8:55 am

Kyocera wrote:seems like he would be even more busier

...and more richer.

#11 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat May 26, 2007 9:33 am

It would be tough to enforce such a requirement but it should be known that the option is available. Maybe Bill could make this option more visible to newcomers.

#12 Post by **gator** » Sat May 26, 2007 10:06 am

Harryc wrote:The only ending to the story I see so far is me without my cash and laptop. Is there a better ending?

HarryC, I feel really sorry for you, hope you get atleast something back.

I agree with the above posts about involving Bill for high-dollar transactions.

#13 Post by **BillMorrow** » Sat May 26, 2007 12:59 pm

i have always offered the escrow option..
i usually charge $50..
partially to keep the number of escrows down and partially to compensate for the risk and time involved..
occasionally i have done an escrow for nothing as i know both sides to the extent anyone can know anyone online..

that said, perhaps a new escrow service system can be worked out that would cost less.. say $25..
and while it might be made a requirement for transactions over $300 in cash or thereabouts, i would hate to make it a requirement..

lets let the rhetoric cool down a bit, first, then revisit this matter in a week..

meanwhile, USPO money orders can be cashed at the PO or deposited in a bank..
the sheer mass or USPO money orders might preclude getting a copy of the endorsements but if this can be had from the PO (probably for a fee) you will have a real name..
because few will cash one without real id and the PO requires two forms of id..
and with banking rules these days its tough to open a bank account in a phoney name..
especially for the dollar amounts involved..

so my advice is:
1. work the USPO MO route..
2. file a complaint with the local PD for the shipping address..
3. file a complaint for mail fraud..
4. start googling every name involved..
5. do a google maps of the mailing address.. (just for fun)
and
never give up..!

FWIW, Orevin was last on the forum on may 22 at 6:17 pm..

in my personal transaction with Harryc, he sent me his apple first, for approval..
and thereafter i sent him his T60..

thinking further, what i CAN do is require positive id for anyone selling anything over a set amount..
a scan of a driver license or the like would be a place to start..
thoughts on this are welcome..

mazzinia · #14 Post by **mazzinia** » Sat May 26, 2007 1:21 pm

Well, maybe I should not put my nose in this but... I think that the scan of a document can be counterfeit

mpcook · #15 Post by **mpcook** » Sat May 26, 2007 3:48 pm

Also since there are a lot of international visitors, it may be hard to determine what is a valid drivers license or ID country by country via a scan - maybe you don't want to be "in the business" of validating people to that extent. Hopefully this was quite a rare event here and so doesn't require extensive re-engineering of commerce on the forum. JMHO. I also understand Harry C's bitterness, that is quite a hit to take.

Mike

#16 Post by **ryengineer** » Sat May 26, 2007 4:08 pm

I feel very sorry for Harry. I was once pwned by someone on ebay for $800 transaction but since I paid through my Mastercard, they helped me in getting my money back through chargeback. Paypal did very least help.

I think all members here are very good, more importantly, honest but bad fishes can mix up with good ones.

In my opinion, CC transaction is more secure due to the chargeback feature.

Lastly, Harry I hope you get your money back. Good Luck.

dsigma6 · #17 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:38 am

Update??

Not that I knew/trusted Orevin, but I wouldn't suspect him of doing that. Maybe he won a trip to Hawaii on short notice..

If this is really a deal made with bad intentions, I'm sorry- But don't act like everyone else is full of S too.

#18 Post by **Harryc** » Tue May 29, 2007 7:51 am

dsigma6 wrote:Update??

Not that I knew/trusted Orevin, but I wouldn't suspect him of doing that. Maybe he won a trip to Hawaii on short notice..

If this is really a deal made with bad intentions, I'm sorry- But don't act like everyone else is full of S too.

No update, no Thinkpad, no cash. I didn't say everyone else is full of S. I simply said nobody can be trusted 100%, there is a distinct difference. This was a 2 year member with almost 500 posts, mostly in 'Marketplace' with possibly more recommendations than anyone except BrentPresley. What would you think?

Maybe he won a trip to Hawaii on short notice..

Is that supposed to be funny? I'm not far from Philly. PM me your address and I'll stop by and we'll discuss the humor in this situation.

dsigma6 · #19 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:02 am

Harryc wrote:
Maybe he won a trip to Hawaii on short notice..
Is that supposed to be funny? I'm not far from Philly. PM me your address and I'll stop by and we'll discuss the humor in this situation.

Where do I start with that reply? It wasn't really supposed to be funny per se, and it certainly wasn't intended as a provocation. You are part of a seemingly bad deal and you're clearly frustrated.

Please, no threats. You don't need to act tough to prove a point.

#20 Post by **Harryc** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:06 am

dsigma6 wrote:
Harryc wrote: Please, no threats. You don't need to act tough to prove a point.

That wasn't a threat, clearly you don't understand the situation so I figured a personal meet would help. You don't know long it took me to save the money, how many months of collecting parts it took to rebuild that T21, how I had to explain to my son his college Thinkpad was stolen, oh and then there's explaining it to the wife, police, postal inspectors, need I go on?

dsigma6 · #21 Post by **dsigma6** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:08 am

Ok Harry. Use the time you'd like to spend visiting with me on solving this caper. Seriously, I hope it works out.

#22 Post by **dorronto** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:12 am

Harryc wrote:
dsigma6 wrote:Update??

Not that I knew/trusted Orevin, but I wouldn't suspect him of doing that. Maybe he won a trip to Hawaii on short notice..

If this is really a deal made with bad intentions, I'm sorry- But don't act like everyone else is full of S too.
No update, no Thinkpad, no cash. I didn't say everyone else is full of S. I simply said nobody can be trusted 100%, there is a distinct difference. This was a 2 year member with almost 500 posts, mostly in 'Marketplace' with possibly more recommendations than anyone except BrentPresley. What would you think?

Maybe he won a trip to Hawaii on short notice..
Is that supposed to be funny? I'm not far from Philly. PM me your address and I'll stop by and we'll discuss the humor in this situation.

Thanks Dan. You're right. Not everyone is full of s*

Really terrible situation to happen and I think this post has HAD ENOUGH. To request someone to pm their address for a personal "discussion" has now gotten out of hand. Yes, money was lost and maybe you don't like or appreciate the comments, but no one here is happy with this either. Period.

This discussion should either be closed or a warning given.

my two cents worth,
Ron

bigtiger · #23 Post by **bigtiger** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:37 am

Harry, I send my condolence for your sad story. Hopelly, Orevin will come back and solve the issue personally.

One thought though, is it possible that somebody hacked into Orevin's account? Maybe our admin team can track his Logged IPs.

mazzinia · #24 Post by **mazzinia** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:49 am

One thought though, is it possible that somebody hacked into Orevin's account? Maybe our admin team can track his Logged IPs.

Actually I was wondering the same thing. I've had a direct experience of 2 accounts hacked in an online game... if somebody is willing to do it for a stupid game, should be more easy that they'll try for something more concrete like in this case (aka money)

#25 Post by **Harryc** » Tue May 29, 2007 8:52 am

bigtiger wrote: Maybe our admin team can track his Logged IPs.

I have them. What can I do with them? 99% of them were from an (the same) ISP in Chicago.

#26 Post by **BillMorrow** » Tue May 29, 2007 12:59 pm

no one hacks an account here..
its simply not worth the effort..
and the real orevin would come up for air and complain..

follow the money..
follow the delivery..

harryc wrote:I simply said nobody can be trusted 100%, there is a distinct difference.

nothing is 100%..
not even me..
but i would add that it would take a whole lot of easy cash to make me dishonest..

like a bag of $1,000,000 bearer bonds laying in the road..
which would equal $1B in cash..

how did your swap just prior to the orevin deal go..?
please don't say NO ONE can be trusted..
you're just feeling the sting of an a..hole who took you for $600 more or less..

i still say to go after him.. hard and fast and take no prisioners..
but don't shoot at the possee who is willing to help..

#27 Post by **Harryc** » Tue May 29, 2007 1:45 pm

Yeah you're right Bill, I am coming off as bit of a hard [censored] here and I appologize. The USPS has already started a fraud investigation. The post master here is a friend of mine ... small towns are good that way.

#28 Post by **gator** » Tue May 29, 2007 2:09 pm

HarryC, I wish you good luck in getting back what you is rightfully yours.

#29 Post by **BillMorrow** » Tue May 29, 2007 3:19 pm

when people would want to pay me with a credit card for a new thinkpad (when i was selling those.. LOTS of new thinkpads) i told them CC's are a nono..
i kept my costs down by using direct deposit to my bank of america account (you need positive id these days to open a bank account), taking a check or a paypal cash payment..

it all boils down to president regan's comment to mikhial gorbachev in iceland..
"Trust, but verify"

you seem to have been stung, now lets all pull together and nail that little [censored]..

#30 Post by **Kyocera** » Tue May 29, 2007 5:42 pm

If no one has heard from Orevin, you know it is possible he's in the hospital, or worse, dead, it could happen to any one of us at any moment in time.

Problem getting user Orevin to complete deal

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