Thinkpads Forum

the thing that really bothered me was that, if 5 different buyers had bought, he would have paid to ship 5 times. Since I bought 5 at once, he made extra money off the deal. Something just did not sit right about that. 5 weigh more than one, but the shipping is still only one shipping.

ccotenj wrote:i don't buy from ANYONE who "makes their money" on shipping... if someone is unwilling to combine shipping (like most ebay vendors of memory, for example), they can keep their product and rot and far as i'm concerned...

I really don't care whether a seller makes money on shipping or not. I look at the total cost (as listed in the auction details) as that's what I end up paying and that's all that matters. If the item costs $2 and shipping is $10, the only question is whether $12 is still a good deal.

tmkim80 wrote:Looks like the verdict is out on this thinkpadworld.com seller and it isn't so good.

Is the verdict good or bad? I don't think there really is a verdict.

ThinkPadWorld offers a lot of ThinkPad products for sale, often IBM/Lenovo refurbished, and offers an aftermarket warranty for many of those. The products seem to be reasonably well described, so it's up to the individual buyer to decide whether any given item is good value or whether to look elsewhere. That's business as usual on the Internet.

Apart from that, it's good to see that Maurice is now reading thinkpads.com, and is willing to address questions and concerns here. That's not the case for most eBay vendors.

scosgt1 wrote:the thing that really bothered me was that, if 5 different buyers had bought, he would have paid to ship 5 times. Since I bought 5 at once, he made extra money off the deal. Something just did not sit right about that. 5 weigh more than one, but the shipping is still only one shipping.

But you would have seen that in the eBay listing, would you not, before you bid on the power supplies?

tomh009 wrote:

ccotenj wrote:i don't buy from ANYONE who "makes their money" on shipping... if someone is unwilling to combine shipping (like most ebay vendors of memory, for example), they can keep their product and rot and far as i'm concerned...

I really don't care whether a seller makes money on shipping or not. I look at the total cost (as listed in the auction details) as that's what I end up paying and that's all that matters. If the item costs $2 and shipping is $10, the only question is whether $12 is still a good deal.

that's a reasonable position to have, and i understand where you are coming from. that being said, i just feel that it's deceptive pricing practices. i freely admit that this is probably unreasonable on my part.

but as in the example given above, if someone charges me 50 dollars shipping when it really only cost 7 bucks, that's hard to swallow. i'd much rather buy from someone who prices the product at what it's worth. again, i admit i'm probably being unreasonable, but it's how i see it.

Yes, of course I saw that. But I buy A LOT OF IBM STUFF. And in general, when I buy in quantity, if the items can be shipped combined, both the seller and I can save some money. Now if he had shipped me 5 packages, that's fine. But since he put all the items in one package, and paid only one shipping, he made an undue profit (as opposed to 5 different buyers). That is just not good business as it does not encourage repeat customers. Right or wrong, no more business from me. Because I would not do that to my customers, I charge actual shipping, and I eat the tape and packing.

scosgt1 wrote:That is just not good business as it does not encourage repeat customers. Right or wrong, no more business from me.

Fair enough, and I understand your position. But I don't think it qualifies as a deceptive or unethical business practice.

scosgt1 wrote:Because I would not do that to my customers, I charge actual shipping, and I eat the tape and packing.

Personally, I don't like the taste of most of the packing tape sold today.

tomh009 wrote:I really don't care whether a seller makes money on shipping or not. I look at the total cost (as listed in the auction details) as that's what I end up paying and that's all that matters. If the item costs $2 and shipping is $10, the only question is whether $12 is still a good deal.

I agree but I doubt you'll buy from a seller who's going to charge you same $10 shipping for each single item separately when you're actually buying multiple items from him.

Unless the price is very attractive to start with -- you are generally correct.

ryengineer wrote:

tomh009 wrote:I really don't care whether a seller makes money on shipping or not. I look at the total cost (as listed in the auction details) as that's what I end up paying and that's all that matters. If the item costs $2 and shipping is $10, the only question is whether $12 is still a good deal.

I agree but I doubt you'll buy from a seller who's going to charge you same $10 shipping for each single item separately when you're actually buying multiple items from him.

I would ---- if the alternative is to buy the items seperately from multiple sellers at the same price as the excessive shipping person.

Would it be nice if the shipper reduced shipping charges ? Yes.
But IMHO its unfair to expect him to reduce shipping charges.

Is thinkpadworld a good place to buy from ? I cannot answer this question without more info on how good the mack warranty is.

ryengineer wrote:I agree but I doubt you'll buy from a seller who's going to charge you same $10 shipping for each single item separately when you're actually buying multiple items from him.

Which is why if I know I'm going to buy multiple items from the seller, I ask what their combined shipping policy is first. It has happened to me recently that I bought one item from a seller and then decided to check their other items they had for sale. I saw the identical item ending in a few days and tried (unsuccessfully) to contact them and get clarification on their policy. I ended up winning the second item. Since they never replied to my messages, I paid for both items separately (the only way you could using their checkout procedure) and have decided NOT to buy from them any more.

Many sellers purposefully mark up shipping as a profit cushion. I do not believe this is done primarly to hurt or trick a buyer. It is primarly done because eBay doesn't assess fees on shipping charges. Unfoturnately, overpriced shipping has become prevalent on eBay.

As mentioned a couple of times above, the total cost should always be considered - don't even look at shipping charges as anything meaningful, it's just part of the item cost.

Certainly shipping charges are not hidden. Sellers that wish to offer a multiple item discount have the ability within eBay listings to do so. And, as mentioned, you are always free to email a seller prior to a purchase so a total cost can be calculated.

I personnally do not think that agressively promoting your item (but not lying) with the one line eBay gives you and then increasing profit using the no fees on shipping loophole is enough to condem an eBay seller. True we'd all prefer to read accurate and not open for interpretation descriptions and pay actual shipping charges, but those are currently not eBay requirements.

Consider how you construct your resume and complete your tax forms. Self promotion and loopholes are the norm, for better or worse.

Have you seen a beer/shampoo/Viagra/car/cigarette advertisement?

although they may be "the norm", that doesn't mean i have to endorse them by giving them my business...

and eventually the end result is that ebay will change their fee structure to include shipping... so we all lose...

wearetheborg wrote:I would ---- if the alternative is to buy the items seperately from multiple sellers at the same price as the excessive shipping person.

Would it be nice if the shipper reduced shipping charges ? Yes.
But IMHO its unfair to expect him to reduce shipping charges.

Is thinkpadworld a good place to buy from ? I cannot answer this question without more info on how good the mack warranty is.

i'd buy from the separate places just on principle...

as said in an earlier post, i freely admit i'm being unreasonable, but being overcharged for shipping burns my britches...

a loose analogy is being charged "book" for labor at the car dealer... i'd MUCH rather they charge twice the amount per hour than charge me for twice the amount of time the job actually took... and yes, i KNOW it's the same amount of money... it's psychological, that's all...

ccotenj wrote:although they may be "the norm", that doesn't mean i have to endorse them by giving them my business...

and eventually the end result is that ebay will change their fee structure to include shipping... so we all lose...

I agree completely.

We charge $40.00 for insured ground shipping on products, and we insure our shipments for replacement value. In order to keep things simple, we charge a flat fee no matter where in the continental USA the package is going. Plus, eBay is charging an arm and a leg for listing / final value fees, it can cost us almost $100.00 to sell a notebook. We are obviously working on very small margins.

ThinkPadWorld wrote:We charge $40.00 for insured ground shipping on products, and we insure our shipments for replacement value. In order to keep things simple, we charge a flat fee no matter where in the continental USA the package is going. Plus, eBay is charging an arm and a leg for listing / final value fees, it can cost us almost $100.00 to sell a notebook. We are obviously working on very small margins.

Maurice, can you provide ANY testimonials/evidence that the mack warranty you include works as it should ? That they dont give much hassle ?

I will do my best to find a testimonial.

It seems to me that Mack warranties are, in a way, put down on these forums. We have never heard complaints about the functionality of the warranty.

There is one customer who just had a claim for a T60p 2.16 GHz notebook who called us. His 6 month IBM Global Financing warranty expired so we directed him to Mack. Within 10 days, his computer's system board and memory were replaced.

Seemed happy to me

I just wanted to say that I purchased a Thinkpad T40p from TPADWORLD back in 2004 and the deal was pretty darn good. They added in an extra 1GB of memory for free, and gave me a nice three year IBM warranty on the unit. I don't think they used to offer Mack warranties on their products.... unfortunately, now this is the case.

I had an issue where the extra GB of RAM was missing when the system came in. I was furious, and called and reported this to them. They sent out an extra GB slab of memory within 5 days. I was quite happy.

Also had an issue where the IBM warranty wasn't showing as a three year from when I purchased it. They adjusted it from their end and all worked out.

In the end, I enjoyed the laptop and it worked great. I since upgraded to a T60 and looked to them for a good deal. The MACK warranty is what shunned me away. I instead got my unit through Lenovo with my University pricing, and love it now. Three year Lenovo warranty.

I cant say whether or not MACK is good or bad since i havent used them. I do wish TPADWORLD would offer a LENOVO direct warranty instead maybe for a few bucks more as I trust Lenovo and love their customer service. At least offer it to customers. I asked about this when I was shopping for T60s months ago and they declined to offer me a Lenovo warranty.

I think TPADWORLD is a good, reliable vendor that should just adjust its selling policies and open up to providing LENOVO warranties for the full life of the product, as they used to. They made me a happy camper back in 2004.

ThinkPadWorld wrote:I will do my best to find a testimonial.

It seems to me that Mack warranties are, in a way, put down on these forums. We have never heard complaints about the functionality of the warranty.

There is one customer who just had a claim for a T60p 2.16 GHz notebook who called us. His 6 month IBM Global Financing warranty expired so we directed him to Mack. Within 10 days, his computer's system board and memory were replaced.

Seemed happy to me

"A testimonial" wont do. I'm looking for multiple user opinions.
You are absolutely correct that Mack warranties are put down in these forums, unfortunately, for a potential buyer like me, there needs to be concrete feedback that this additionla warranty is of actual use.

I've asked for input in two forums:
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=46187
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=142097

No response yet....

This is getting out of hand. There is only so much customer service that Maurice can perform while also trying receive and list the units as well as deal with questions from potential buyers and current customers.

I purchased the T41P everyone loves so much from him. Sure I paid $849, however I believe it was good deal. The machine arrived quickly. I did have a problem with the hard drive. I was supposed to receive a 60GB 7200RPM drive and I received a 40GB 5400RPM drive. I called Maurice and spoke with him many times. He was always friendly, helpful and supportive. He took extra time out of his day to rectify the situation and within a week IBM DHL'ed me the correct drive, no questions asked. I left positive feedback for him and would purchase from him again.

I do understand that our user base here is very picky about what they buy on e-bay. Sometimes it works to our advantage and sometimes it is not.

The fact the Maurice took the time to register and respond to non-customer inquiries shows that he believes in the product he sells and is willing to step up and take a beating from a sometimes unforgiving and demanding community. For the machines he sells + the upgrades it is my opinion that he does a fine job. The problem is that some customers simply cannot be made happy, no matter how much you try. Also keep in mind that most of the threads concerning his company are from people who have had a problem. Rarely do customers with no problems with their equipment start a new thread and say:

"I just purchased a Thinkpad from Thinkpad world and am overjoyed"

no it's more along the lines of:

"Thinkpadworld screwed up again...."

Considering the volume of sales he does, his feedback rating, and his willingness to come here and defend himself makes me want to purchase from him again. I am extremely happy with my laptop and his service.

You cannot please everyone 100% of the time. The best he can do is to try and please most people most of the time. The guy is a human just like the rest of us. Cut him little slack will ya? I have made mistakes in my e-bay descriptions, had to deal with unhappy customers, etc. I'm sure many of us here can understand that.

@Maurice:

Keep up the good work. You have a potential for a lot of clients from this forum. Maybe you could work out some kind of deal with the admins here. It would boost your rep, your sales and provide us with a known good seller who can be counted on for good deals and excellent quality.

EDIT: I am going to add the e-bay item # for the laptop I bought from him. Unfortunately the listing is no longer available for viewing however I think it might help some.

#120068644656

EDIT #2: My e-bay user name is mlucas2600. If some of you care to verify my purchase please feel free. It would be nice to know that our community here is full of understanding people who value good quality at good prices.

wearetheborg wrote:"A testimonial" wont do. I'm looking for multiple user opinions.You are absolutely correct that Mack warranties are put down in these forums, unfortunately, for a potential buyer like me, there needs to be concrete feedback that this additionla warranty is of actual use.

Mack does a lot more business with photo equipment warranties. Not exactly the same thing (camera gear can get exposed to the elements a lot more easily) but there is lots of feedback to be found:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=23855419
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read. ... e=21189565
http://www.dphoto.us/forum/archive/inde ... -3174.html
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/arc ... 28277.html
http://www.amazon.com/3-Year-Service-Pl ... B0009YDNGA
http://www.buzzillions.com/warranty-and ... 294966873/

Google is your friend ...

Perhaps Mack is a reliable warranty outfit, but they don't seem trusted in the PC business.

We have a third party warranty on some of our office printers right now from a place called ServiceNet and they are giving us the largest headache in getting service.

minc3d wrote:Perhaps Mack is a reliable warranty outfit, but they don't seem trusted in the PC business.

Of course you always have the option of buying a new ThinkPad with the (often optional) three-year warranty. But if you want an older system, IBM/Lenovo warranty is generally not an option. So you need to decide whether a Mack warranty is better than no warranty at all -- and that's a choice you have to make yourself.

I buy my T60p from ThinkPad World one month ago. To be correct, my wife buy it for me because she is much more common with ebay then I. So, we are in Europe and use direct buy option with Visa to buy a T60p for 1450 $. As this feature was new for non EU, we got some mail exchange. TPW tells us first that we make a mistake and we need to do a wired transfert. We send the link to show that we can pay by Visa from Europe and after, it runs fine for paiement.

I got a second mail : issue with the model we ordered. Thinkpad World offers an other one with faster CPU but no fingerprint or let us choose an other one. The one they suggest was fine for us... I got my T60p within one week. Box was not sealed because of the memory upgrade. Laptop is perfect, brand new ! Battery have no run cycle and any even little scratch on the boddy. I phone IBM in Belgium to know about warranty. Mine is covered by IBM on site for 3 years ! I was so suprised that I phone IBM France and they tell me the same. They even ask me if something was wrong with my T60p and how to help me ! They encode mine in their data base and once again confirm the 3 years www.

I'am very glad with Thinkpad World. I paid 1450 € with taxes and shipping for a T60p with world wide warranty until june 2010. Here, such a laptop cost more then 2200 €.

I care about a french computer hardware website. And after my feedback, an other guy from my BB also order T60p. He also got a mail about an issue (that looks a bit strange), but he also receive nearly the same T60p as he ordered. In both case, TPW offers to send a model witch costs 50 $ more. His T60p is also covered by a 3 years world wide warranty. He is also very happy !

The only strange thing is that we both encounter *an issue* and don't receive exactly the selected model... But, to tell the true, I don't care about this. I got a T60p witch suit me very well : it got all the features I want. Even better, I got it for a far lower price then in Europe and far faster. Sure I will buy other ThinkPad from ThinkPad World. Some members of my website plan do so and others have already done it !

Pascal_TTH wrote:I got my T60p within one week. Box was not sealed because of the memory upgrade. Laptop is perfect, brand new ! Battery have no run cycle and any even little scratch on the boddy. I phone IBM in Belgium to know about warranty. Mine is covered by IBM on site for 3 years !

That sounds very much like an off-lease or refurb that (I think) end up at TPW or as "ibm cert used". They often look brand new and come with a new or "reconditioned" battery showing no cycles.

Typically IBM only gives 6-month IBM warranty (3-months for older models), but sometimes IBM has been known to 'forget' to remove the 3-year warranty. So some ppl get lucky. I know of a batch of refurbs in Canada that they recently released with 3-year onsite. In the old days, all the "cert used" refurbs retained the balance of the original 3-year warranty.

You did well!

I just bought a thinkpad classified as "S-Claim" from them and wasn't happy with the quality (looked like used for a long time).

They replaced the thing quickly though, which was very important as I was on a very tight timeframe.

I agree that their descriptions aren't very clear, and the response time is not always as fast as we'd like to see, but when I needed them to act quickly, that's what they did.

Of course, had I known that the quality of the item was not close to "nearly new condition", I wouldn't have bought the item in the first place.

Some mack concerns...
http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=142097

The best we can hope for is for Thinkpad World to post some link or other kind of documentation that lists what claim they are (this they do) and what exactly and S or L or whatever claim type is and what is means, IN PLAIN ENGLISH.

However considering their volume, feedback and amount of happy customers if their current system works fine for 98% of their customers then it would be a waste of time, money, resources and production to do this. Someone is getting paid to list the item. They do it by hand. Having to type (or copy) that additional info in, verify it, list it, and re-verify is a waste of time and money.

Look at from the standpoint of a business manager (i.e. your boss or his boss, you know the one with "Senior Manager" in the title) and not from the viewpoint of Joe Schmoe consumer and you will understand. Anything that increases or could potentially increase overhead is bad juju.

I am here to clear up confusion about the Claim Codes (condition codes we receive our merchandise in)

S - CLAIM:

Factory refurbished by IBM (Excellent condition).


Product is fully tested and guaranteed to be in perfect operating condition. Complete with fresh factory software load and OS (operating system) with Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity (COA), includes all drivers and utilities including system recovery. Complete with all original accessories and documentation.

Warranty Information:
90 day warranty from IBM Global Finance, plus balance of original Manufacturers warranty if applicable.

L-CLAIM:

New open box tested and repacked by IBM. Brand new condition.

These are brand new products which were either:

● shipped to an IBM reseller or end user and returned within the 10 day return policy - in most cases unused

● Custom ordered configuration which was cancelled

● Brand new, odd lot, or overstocked inventory

Products are remanufactured and fully tested by IBM. They are complete with fresh factory software load and OS (operating system) with Microsoft Certificate of Authenticity (COA). Includes all drivers and utilities including system recovery. Complete with all original accessories and documentation.

-------

As you can see, L-Claim is a better condition than S - Claim, but both provide IBM Factory warranties, which guarantee your computer to be received in perfect working condition. You will never be stuck with a non-working unit.

The L-Claim's we have been receiving lately have been BRAND NEW lately, 0 cycles on the battery life.