Help ! Should I buy a used or a new thinkpad ?

[Robbyrobot]

I've bought used laptops before and I was extremely disappointed. They had little faults that annoy me.

Because of my bad experience I personally would get a new one.

I guess it comes down to what you're willing to pay and whether you can do minor repairs yourself.

If you have two left hands or simply don't want to do minor work yourself, and if your cash situation is good, you won't go wrong on a new laptop.

If you don't mind and can perform minor "surgery" yourself - or even enjoy such work, as some here do - and if you want to get the best value for money ratio - you'll probably buy used, but you'll buy with a knowledgeable eye.

That's what most of the comments here boil down to, and everyone has to decide for themselves what their own personal situation is.

[wearetheborg]

"Minor repairs" like putting in a new HDD, or replacing fans are fine with me.
I'm more concerned with motherboard & backlight failures, especially since 3 out of the 6 people in our group have had such failures with their thinkpads.
Surprisingly, all out of warranty. I think 2 in year 4, and one in year 6.

[Robbyrobot]

"Minor repairs" like putting in a new HDD, or replacing fans are fine with me.
I'm more concerned with motherboard & backlight failures...

Motherboard failures obviously don't fall under "minor repairs", but it seems to me that replacing an inverter/LCD cable to fix a backlight failure isn't that much more difficult than replacing a fan. I've had my T21 with a backlight failure (probably the LCD cable, as the backlight went on and off as I moved the lid) open and that didn't involve much more than changing the fan would have. Replacing a defective CCFL is, of course, an entirely different ball game.

Your mentioning the rate of backlight failure in your group is interesting, but it'd be even more so if you could say what caused these failures. The CCFL doesn't last forever and depending on usage could become defective after the times you state. No idea what the situation is with the inverter, but you often read about it becoming defective. As for the LCD cable, I've read that the T21/T22 cables are more prone to develop breaks than those of the later models, but that's only heresay.

Putting in a new HDD wouldn't even fall under "minor" in my books, as all you have to do is remove and replace four screws - but everyone has his own definition of "minor" and what's "minor" for you and me could be "major" for someone else.

That's why everyone pretty well has to decide for themselves and strike a balance between price and condition.

[wearetheborg]

Your mentioning the rate of backlight failure in your group is interesting, but it'd be even more so if you could say what caused these failures.

No, there were no backlight failures. All motherboard failures.

[Ted_E]

I'm in a dilemma.

I need a secondary laptop to carry on trips etc.
Used T42s go about $550
But right now, I can get a brand new T61p 2Ghz, 100GB HDD@7200rpm, 1GB ram, rollcage, WUXGA, NVIDIA Quadro FX 570M
and a *SIX* year warranty @ $1485 incl tax.

So if I buy a new T61p, I'm set for 6 years, but I have to spend $900 more. But it seems such a good deal...

With a used T42, its cheaper, but there is no guarentee it will last.
At a $550 pricepoint, I want it to last at least 3 years, and most of it outside warranty. Is this unreasonable ?

What you didn't say is what you DO on your laptop. I just recently bought a refurbished T60 from IBM Canada but I do some pretty heavy duty stuff. My previous machine, a T23, (still in service as a Windoze box) is as good as the day I got it - also a refub from IBM. It was replaced because I wanted USB 2, a larger hard drive and a faster machine, in that priority order.

I have had a TP 385XD, T23 and now a T60. There are two more T23's in my family. All except the 385XD were refurbs purchase from IBM. None have failed. The purchase are spread from 1998 to this year. My computing demands simply outgrew them. Good friends of mine have two T22's in the family. No failures.

Several people I know have had Dells fail on them. Of course my sample is too small to draw any valid stats from but that's my story.

I suggest you seriously think carefully about what you do an how much jam you can really use The T42 is a powerful machine.

It does happen but it's rare for an electronic device to fail after six months of faultless operation. Note that the only alteration/repair to the above T-Pads was to add more RAM.

One thing you can be sure of is that you'll get more bang for your computing buck as each year goes by. It is invariably unwise to buy for the future more than a year out.

One more thing: I have never seen the screen on the T42 but when we travel by car, my wife usually drives and I get to "play" with my GPS and computer. I could never really acomplish much on the T23 but the T60 screen is much brighter, higher contrast and higher resolution. It is very nice.


Ted

[elite-elitist]

I guess it comes down to what you're willing to pay and whether you can do minor repairs yourself.

If you have two left hands or simply don't want to do minor work yourself, and if your cash situation is good, you won't go wrong on a new laptop.

Repairs cost money too. Spare parts cost money, and tools cost money too. You can end up spending the same amount on repairing an old thinkpad as buying a new laptop (probably not a new thinkpad though).

If your cash situation isn't great you might want to buy a new one since it is less risky than buying an old one. I am a student and I tried getting used laptops to save money, but in the end I got a load of rubbish, and lost money.

[Robbyrobot]

Repairs cost money too. Spare parts cost money, and tools cost money too. You can end up spending the same amount on repairing an old thinkpad as buying a new laptop (probably not a new thinkpad though).

Quite true, especially if you buy a relatively expensive used Thinkpad, have considerable repairs on it, and compare the total cost to one of the new "other brands". To some extent, luck is involved, just like when you buy a used car. But it helps to be knowledgeable, although that generally requires experience - and you pay for that too.

If your cash situation isn't great you might want to buy a new one since it is less risky than buying an old one. I am a student and I tried getting used laptops to save money, but in the end I got a load of rubbish, and lost money.

I can commiserate. My first Thinkpad was a grossly overpriced 765D on Ebay, where the seller misrepresented the CPU as 266MHz (it's really 166MHz) and lied when I asked specifically. He was later excluded from Ebay for multiple misrepresentations and even later convicted for fraud.

This first bad experience, however, was partly my own fault, as I hadn't realized how confused the Thinkpad model designations are (why is a 765 less powerful and older than a 600?), and how important - and difficult - it is to find out exactly what is in a specific model (CPU, HDD, display, periphery).

In the meantime I have around 10-12 Thinkpads of various types, the newest two being T21s, and have generally paid less than EUR 50 for them (EUR 100 and EUR 65 for the T21s). The learning curve helps to make fewer mistakes as you go on, and all in all I still have only spent about the same money for my whole "collection" as I would have for one new "other brand" laptop.

My situation is different from yours, however, since this is a hobby for me and I'm not dependent on the Thinkpads for my work (I use a desktop machine for that).

[asiafish]

For a travel/secondary machine, the X series really can't be beat. I just got an X41 for about $450 and it is immaculate, had 1.5GB RAM and built-in a/b/g wifi. While nowhere near the performance of my T60 (or the OP's Dell), it is more than adequate for a secondary machine. It weighs 2.7lbs, runs Vista just fine and gets 2.5 hours on a 4-cell, 5 hours on an 8-cell battery.

As far as new vs. used, even for a primary machine, used or refurb is the way to go for me. I bought a "near-new" T60 from Brent Presely (outstanding seller) here on the forum with a 60 day warranty. 60 days was the right amount, as at around day 50 a mysterious line appeared on the LCD and Brent replaced the panel. I'm out of warranty now, but with what I saved on this machine compared to a new one, I'm still ahead even if I have to pay for a repair.

As for T4x v. T6x, that is a more difficult question. I had a14" T42p before the T60 and loved it. At the time, I thought it was the best built laptop I'd ever owned. I thought it was extremely fast and powerful and found hte 14" SXGA+ screen to be better than most non-flexview screens of similar resolution. As soon as I powered up the T60, the T42p felt like it was far older than 2 years. EVERYTHING is faster on the T60 and while the same size and resolution, the screen is MUCH brighter, has better color and better contrast. Size and weight are almost identical (T60 is a tad heavier) and even battery life is almost as good.

T61 looks to be further improved compared to T60, though I'm not a fan of widescreen so that would be a deal-breaker unless they release a 14" 4:3 model in the spec I wanted. Its nothing to do with asthetics or flexview availability (IPS was only offered on 15" which is too big for me), but relates to games. Most games that I play are not widescreen compliant, and lack options to place black borders on the sides. I end up with images that are horizontally stretched making people and objects look fat. I like playing games on my computer, and this is a deal-killer for me.

[Ted_E]

[quote="asiafish"]As for T4x v. T6x, that is a more difficult question. I had a14" T42p before the T60 and loved it. At the time, I thought it was the best built laptop I'd ever owned. I thought it was extremely fast and powerful and found hte 14" SXGA+ screen to be better than most non-flexview screens of similar resolution. ...

I just stepped up from a T23 to a T60 and am _very_ impressed with the machine, especially the display. My wife usually drives when we travel by car and this is the first machine on which I can do serious work in daylight.

Like you, I wanted a 14.1 inch screen and that's what I got.

As to new/used, I have now purchased four machines as refurbs from IBM. Ionly had problems with one. It had dead networking. A phone call to IBM brought a courier out that day and they fixed it. That machine is still in service. Worth taking a look at since it would be hard to find a more reliable vendor and the prices are pretty good.

Ted

[wearetheborg]

My brain says "get a used thinkpad" but my heart is pining for a new one - is that bad ??
I've never had a new thinkpad before, my previous T30 was a used one.
I am so ashamed of myself for being so weak, and being so easily tempted

[pianowizard]

This will be your backup laptop, right? Why not get a really cheap new laptop, such as this $415 shipped 15.4" Everex or this $435 shipped 14.1" Acer, both on sale on Newegg?

[wearetheborg]

I'm a resolution freak
XGA just wont do.
Anyhoo, I just bought a used T42, Pentium M 2Ghz, 1GB sodimm, sxga+, warranty until april 2009 for 585 shipped, lets see how that goes.
Hope it was a decent deal

[gator]

That seems like a good deal indeed.

[pianowizard]

I'm a resolution freak
XGA just wont do.

But WXGA has about 30% more pixels than XGA. I am obsessed with high-res screens too, but wouldn't mind having an ultra-cheap backup machine with WXGA.

[Ted_E]

I'm a resolution freak
XGA just wont do.

But WXGA has about 30% more pixels than XGA. I am obsessed with high-res screens too, but wouldn't mind having an ultra-cheap backup machine with WXGA.

I recently bought a refurb T60 to replace my T23 for prime time. I am keeping my T23 as backup and for use as a win box when I want access to w2K (e.g. Google Earth) and my T60 is otherwise busy. Mostly I use eCs.

[wearetheborg]

I'm a resolution freak
XGA just wont do.

But WXGA has about 30% more pixels than XGA. I am obsessed with high-res screens too, but wouldn't mind having an ultra-cheap backup machine with WXGA.

WXGA is certainly better. SXGA+ is better, WUXGA is the best

Its not going to be purely a backup machine. I expect to take it, and work on it when I travel.