WTB: older TP for daughter

[ranchmom5]

I wrote a week or so ago about buying a TP for my 12yo daughter. I had tried to get the A22M that was listed for $80 but missed that. A few of you responded to me about having some older machines...and I thank you for that. After pondering this for a few days, I decided I needed to come here and ask for a little more advice on exactly what to buy. I am sure there are some TP models that have had more issues than others. I know it would be rather frustrating for my daughter to spend her cherished and hard earned money and then have lots of issues or upgrades to deal with. Can some of you shed some light on which older models might be the best to look for...and which to steer clear of?

I now also have a mini dock 2878 and it would be nice if whatever she gets could also use it.

Again, her needs are:
Windows XP (ok, that is really my need!)
fast enough processor and HDD to not be TOO frustrating when she is doing her school
CD/DVD Rom
wireless (doesn't have to be built it could be via USB)

I am sure I am missing something but I know you guys will take good care of me and fill in the blanks.

[pianowizard]

Again, her needs are:
Windows XP (ok, that is really my need!)
fast enough processor and HDD to not be TOO frustrating when she is doing her school
CD/DVD Rom
wireless (doesn't have to be built it could be via USB)

I am sure I am missing something

Indeed you are missing something, something potentially very important: weight. If this laptop is going to be used exclusively at home, then weight will not matter, but as soon as she starts bringing it to school, then it will become a huge issue. Ask her how she's going to use this machine.

In a nutshell:

The A, G and R series are big and heavy, ranging from 6 to 8 lbs.

The T series and 600/600E/600X are medium sized and around 5 lbs.

The X series and 240/240X/570/570E are the lightest, weighing around 3 to 4 lbs, but do not have internal optical drives.

[schen]

IMHO, it's a bit of a sliding scale between costs of upgrades and costs in age. What I mean is that as the age of the computer goes up the prices comes down, but the costs of components to upgrade it (and make it viable daily user) goes up.

A perfect example is the T Series, where the earlier Ts such as the T20,21,22 had a PC100 bus and the T23 had a PC133 bus. The older units cost more to upgrade since there was a lot less RAM of the larger capacities made at that time, so making it run the full 512Mb for which those machines are capable ends up costing more than the same amount on the T23. This ends up being true of the T23 vs. the T30 which uses DDR 2100/2700 for which it's easier to find RAM to get a machine up to 1Gb (which I consider to be a sweetspot for running WinXP).

For me, the T30/T40 is a very nice performance vs. cost place in the market right now in that the parts can be had cheaply in a machine with base hardware that is/and will remain for some time, very viable daily user. The vast majority will have at least a 40Gb HDD, DVD or DVD/CDRW optical drive and wireless or wireless capable built-in. This applies to the A/R Series of the same vintage in a slightly bigger/heavier format, such as the A31, and R40s. These machines can sometimes be as good or better deals than the Ts, but often are not because of the shear number of used Ts that hit the market due to their popularity in the business world. I think you can even go as old as the T23 but from there down, you run into a kind of negative ratio of cost to upgrade vs. performance as well as continued viability in the future.

[ranchmom5]

weight will not really be a major significance because we homeschool and for the most part it would be used either at her desk or in her bedroom. I would guess that by the time she heads off for college she will want something newer than what we are looking at right now.

For those of you who didn't read (or don't remember) my other thread, we only had one Dell Dimension (6 years old) to share amongst myself and 4 children still at home. A few months back I purchased a very nice R50 from underclocker and found out how much more efficient our schooling was when there was more than one computer available. I had really wanted to keep the R50 for myself and let the kids still fight over the desktop but it didn't really work that way. My 18yo son was continually using my R50....so with the help of a wonderfully kind forum member I have also acquired an incredibly nice T42. Now this one IS mine!! And I am absolutely LOVING it!!!! I thought if I could find an inexpensive, older TP for my daughter then I would just eliminate the old Dell and set up the dock in the office. When needed each person could dock to use the printer, etc.

Do keep in mind though that my daughter is going to have to pay for this herself so cost is one of the most important factors.

Ok...so that is my story. We have gone from one old dilapidated Dell to being ThinkPad addicts!!!

[wearetheborg]

I would also recommend looking at the HP NC8000. Eg, ebay
Item number: 270183029181
They are very nice machines (I own one), pentium M, SXGA+ displays, and some have warranty. And they go ~$300.
They are business grade, with a metal lid. Quite well built.

[KristianJ]

I can't imagine that her school work for the next little while would be that intensive, so CPU speed wouldn't have to be too high, I imagine. Plus I doubt she'd be using programs that require a higher end CPU/RAM configuration.

How much money does she have to spend? That will be the difference between acting now and buying a PIII based machine with the lesser available PC100 or PC133 RAM, or waiting a little while, contrbuting a small amount of your own money, and getting her a Pentium M based R40 or T40 (where available RAM is far more abundant and you get the performance benefits).

Good luck in your quest, from one who has also gone from an old dilapidated Dell to Thinkpad addiction.

[ChugokuOtaku]

anything with a Dothan core and up should get her going for a few years.
school work doesn't require any real CPU intensive apps

[pianowizard]

anything with a Dothan core and up should get her going for a few years.

I doubt that the OP is looking for anything this powerful. Dothan laptops cost at least $400. I think anything with 366MHz Pentium II/Celeron or better is adequate for his daughter for a few years.

[underclocker]

I'm glad that R50 is so popular at the OP's home

I think a dollar amount, perhaps not to exceed, would be very helpful.

Without that number, my experience says this;

Budget

Up to $100 --> save more money! Or, maybe a 600 series or X20/X21 or A20m, they are old, kinda slow, low on specs.

$100 to $200 --> X22, X23, X24 or T23, this might very well be IBM's most reliable machines ever. All of these models had the best Pentium III-m CPU's (that's with 512MB cache, the precursor to the Pentium M CPU's). They are fast and will run WinXP with 256MB of RAM. They will also show performance gains with 5400rpm or 7200rpm hard drives. If you can find any of the above models with built in wifi, grab one. A30's and A31's are great, but they are beasts. I'd skip the T20, T21 and T22 for reasons mentioned above. (If I was pressed to only own one machine in this price range, I'd take an X23 with internal wifi; fast, runs cool and light weight.)

$200 to $300 --> R50, R51 or T40, these are modern computers with Pentium M's, USB 2.0, fast GPU's, etc. I'd skip right over T30's, R32's and R40's, their prices overlap and their features lack.

$300 and over --> Nicely equipped R5x or T4x. Many T42's are selling in the low $300's now on eBay, you just have to catch one.

Hope this helps. Good luck.

[ranchmom5]

Underclocker,

Thanks so much for this information. It is exactly what I was looking for! I think we are in the $200 or less range, so will start looking for the models you suggested.

Like I said, I knew my friends here at TP forum would guide us in the right direction.

[tfflivemb2]

I would also recommend looking at the HP NC8000. Eg, ebay
Item number: 270183029181
They are very nice machines (I own one), pentium M, SXGA+ displays, and some have warranty. And they go ~$300.
They are business grade, with a metal lid. Quite well built.

The OP specifically requested a TP...

Given the age of the system that the OP is looking for, I would agree with sticking with a Thinkpad, because they are much easier to work on, and parts are easier to get a hold of...

My personal preference would be the T23. As much as I love the durability of the the 600E (one of my all-time favorite thinkpads), the T23 seems to be a nice sweet spot between durability, speed and cost...

[rkawakami]

Funny, I was about to suggest a 600X . I know, a shock huh?

The reasons for the 600X (when compared to a T23) are:

- cheaper; at least for the basic system (notwithstanding the cost of PC100 memory but some eBay bargains can be had)
- sturdier; certainly more so than many of the T23s I've seen (but then again, I mostly buy problem systems )
- one of the best keyboards that IBM offered on a Thinkpad (personal opinion)

The reasons against the 600X, and in the T23's favor:

- bigger screen (13.3" vs. 14.1")
- availability of SXGA+ (1400 x 1050) on the T23 (600X is XGA; 1024 x 768)
- usable with the 2878 dock
- faster processors (T23 minimum is 866Mhz, max is 1.2Ghz; stock 600X is 650Mhz; mods can go to 850Mhz)
- more maximum memory (T23 can go to 1024MB; 600X limited to 576MB)
- no Thinklight, built in ethernet port or wireless available on the 600X

Of course most of these things are because the T23 is usually more expensive than the 600X.

If I had to consider which one of these systems is more reliable than the other, and assuming that we are talking about systems which have not had any professional refurbishing, I'd have to go with the 600X. I know of several weak points on the T23, which if you have the time and capability, can be fixed. However, I am the Information Technology and Field Service departments in my house and have the tools to fix most problems. I would assume that the OP daughter's main goal is to have something that will work day-in and day-out for the next several years and not have to worry about visits to "the shop".

My younger daughter (16) has been using a 600X practically non-stop for the past three years. It's on almost 24/7, gets carried around the house every day, used on the couch, in bed, in the bathroom (don't ask) and has not had any problems at all. It's a 500Mhz system and has full memory with Windows XP. She mostly uses Firefox, Word, AIM, Audacity, Paint Shop Pro and iTunes on it. Of course a T23 could run those programs much faster at the slight increase in overall size and probably at a higher temperature but she's happy with her system.

[underclocker]

Oh yeah, this reminds me why there are so many different cars to choose from, too. Different people, like different things...

You really can't go wrong with a good X22, X23, X24, 600X or T23.

The most important thing about picking one up is to ensure that it is in good condition and complete. Ensure it has a good (quiet, no errors) hard disk, adequate memory (256MB+), good battery and AC adapter. Once you start buying parts and paying for shipping for parts, you could wind up in the next price category, but without a better machine.

And, if you're getting close to $200, I'd try to hold out for an R5x or T4x, they really are a generation better than prior models. Occasionally, R5x's can be scooped up in the low $200's.

For example, here is an eBay option for a nice R50, for $249 plus $20 shipping. However, he will permit offers. I'd offer $219 (plus shipping), along with a summary of your daughter's need, and see if he/she accepts. This one is already a good price, but you never know...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0178259877

[underclocker]

I was close! The seller accepted an offer of $225 plus the $20 shipping. Great deal for buyer.

[dorronto]

I was close! The seller accepted an offer of $225 plus the $20 shipping. Great deal for buyer.

I also agree!! Good deal for someone..........

Ron

[ranchmom5]

I checked it out but didn't make a move on it....there must be something better in store for me!

Good deal though, I do agree.