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Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

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amardeep
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#61 Post by amardeep » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:04 am

Here's an interesting laptop (admittedly from a startup, so who knows how long they'll be around). The concept is a more modular and repairable laptop, while keeping a modern form factor. Framework startup designed a thin, modular, repairable 13-inch laptop. Whether there's a trend to better repairability in general, we'll see, though I am sceptical that will happen - maybe in some minor ways like serviceable (replaceable) batteries across product lines, but even a switch to socketed RAM (if only single slot plus single soldered RAM stick) seems far-fetched at the moment. At least from the likes of Lenovo and Apple.

arstechnica are sceptical too, but let's see what happens.
Although we're skeptical, we are hopeful—the fledgling company does have a pretty solid pedigree. Framework founder Nirav Patel was Oculus VR's head of hardware from 2012 to 2017, and he was a Facebook director of engineering beyond that. The company's team also includes design, engineering, and operations people hailing from Apple, Google, and Lenovo.

The Framework laptop is expected to become widely available this summer—and a company representative promised us a hands-on review unit as soon as one becomes available.

Omineca
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#62 Post by Omineca » Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:14 am

amardeep wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:04 am
Here's an interesting laptop (admittedly from a startup, so who knows how long they'll be around). The concept is a more modular and repairable laptop, while keeping a modern form factor. Framework startup designed a thin, modular, repairable 13-inch laptop. Whether there's a trend to better repairability in general, we'll see, though I am sceptical that will happen - maybe in some minor ways like serviceable (replaceable) batteries across product lines, but even a switch to socketed RAM (if only single slot plus single soldered RAM stick) seems far-fetched at the moment. At least from the likes of Lenovo and Apple.

arstechnica are sceptical too, but let's see what happens.
Although we're skeptical, we are hopeful—the fledgling company does have a pretty solid pedigree. Framework founder Nirav Patel was Oculus VR's head of hardware from 2012 to 2017, and he was a Facebook director of engineering beyond that. The company's team also includes design, engineering, and operations people hailing from Apple, Google, and Lenovo.

The Framework laptop is expected to become widely available this summer—and a company representative promised us a hands-on review unit as soon as one becomes available.
If this actually materializes on the market, I'll be interested to see how it sells and how the upgrade cycle actually plays out. I don't know how many people will still want their old laptop by the time a set of upgrades is necessary. I wonder how much "new car smell" psychology (i.e., we want shiny new things) is involved in the constant purchasing of new products. I know that's not really as much of an issue for a lot of us here, but I suspect that it is for the general public.

Anyways, it looks quite apple-inspired. If it has flat keys, that's a negative for me. The ThinkPad features that matter most to me are:
- keyboard (with those sculpted keys -- either the old or new style is fine with me)
- repairability/upgrade-ability (HMM!)
- durability
- Linux compatibility

Edit: 200th post! :)
Home: L440 | R500 | X120e
Work: Yoga 260

jdk
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#63 Post by jdk » Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:36 am

I am on a MacBook now because of the display mostly, but those days are limited as Apple has moved to a non-repairable, non-replaceable filosophy.

Up until 2015, you could replace the SSD, and third party parts are easily available from OWC, which is a very reputable company in those circles. You could also load whatever OS you wanted. But once these 2015-era machines die off, you are locked in to whatever RAM and SSD you had at purchase, and only repairable (via entire system board replacement) by Apple. And only macOS or Windows (via Bootcamp) are supported on the post-2015 models, neither of which I am a fan of.

At work I mess with the Microsoft laptops, Dell Latitudes and Precisions, and Toughbooks. I think Dell makes the nicest systems out of the three, even if they are fingerprint magnets. I really *really* can't stand the keyboard on the Toughbook. But I'm not really looking to bring work home, so to speak, so those "business class" and slightly "ruggedized" laptops can stay at work, where they belong.

The mobile nature of my life kind of dictates that I stay on a laptop, so I'm looking at System76 for my next systems. Yes, I know exactly what those laptops are, but I want to support them even if I don't plan on running their PopOS.

A 17" 16:10 AMD-based portable workstation would be a nice build. In a few years, once a few of my financial goals are met, and these MacBooks are no longer usable, of course.

In the meantime, I've stocked up on a few of the 2015 MacBook Pros. I have a few ThinkPads laying around, even a few modern ones (P71, X280, T470p), but they are nothing special except for the name anymore.
--
Cyrix 6x86

retro
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Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2020 7:34 am
Location: Montreal, QC Canada

Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#64 Post by retro » Sat Mar 13, 2021 11:28 pm

Omineca wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 9:14 am
amardeep wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:04 am
Here's an interesting laptop (admittedly from a startup, so who knows how long they'll be around). The concept is a more modular and repairable laptop, while keeping a modern form factor. Framework startup designed a thin, modular, repairable 13-inch laptop. Whether there's a trend to better repairability in general, we'll see, though I am sceptical that will happen - maybe in some minor ways like serviceable (replaceable) batteries across product lines, but even a switch to socketed RAM (if only single slot plus single soldered RAM stick) seems far-fetched at the moment. At least from the likes of Lenovo and Apple.

arstechnica are sceptical too, but let's see what happens.
If this actually materializes on the market, I'll be interested to see how it sells and how the upgrade cycle actually plays out. I don't know how many people will still want their old laptop by the time a set of upgrades is necessary. I wonder how much "new car smell" psychology (i.e., we want shiny new things) is involved in the constant purchasing of new products. I know that's not really as much of an issue for a lot of us here, but I suspect that it is for the general public.

Anyways, it looks quite apple-inspired. If it has flat keys, that's a negative for me. The ThinkPad features that matter most to me are:
- keyboard (with those sculpted keys -- either the old or new style is fine with me)
- repairability/upgrade-ability (HMM!)
- durability
- Linux compatibility

Edit: 200th post! :)
Interesting product. Seems there is something brewing there - at least I hope so. France seems to be steering the boat towards Framework like devices.

https://www.wired.com/story/frances-new ... -big-deal/

kfzhu1229
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#65 Post by kfzhu1229 » Sun Mar 14, 2021 11:54 am

I wonder how much more that laptop would be upgradeable compared to things like a Thinkpad T480/T580 or a Latitude 5490/5590. Seems like everything the framework thing mentioned is present on those.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

crashnburn
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Re: Why THINKPADS & who's 2nd best ?

#66 Post by crashnburn » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:17 am

kfzhu1229 wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:44 pm
crashnburn wrote:
Thu Feb 11, 2021 10:53 am
But truly, maybe this thread needed a revival and a 2020/21 updated comparative - whats a close second NOW? If any?
I have not changed my opinion. It's always ThinkPads or Latitudes. I like how their older models try to achieve durability longevity and such in totally different ways. However I am also open to get my hands on good quality HP or Toshiba laptops like I have done with Satellite A70.
Thinkpads were always towards the more elegant side of things in the world of business laptops, Latitudes were built for maximum practicality. Trackpoints were a world better, and the Alps touchpads on the Latitudes are also a world more precise than the synaptics ones, being bigger and precise enough for you to move pixel by pixel in mspaint for example.
As for board design, ThinkPad likes to use lots of fuses for protection against permanent damage, Latitude likes to use just stronger components and certain resettable safety devices such as MOSFETs.
Unfortunately now the mainstream 14" and 15.6" ones they are both black on the outside, black on the inside and have the same chicklet style keyboard, just one has a blue pointing stick and the other has a red trackpoint. If not USBC, one comes with the rectangular charging port (that might be easy to kill the superio), and the other still comes with the old style big barrel jack that's in use for a good 17 years by now.
I've seen some Latitudes; did not like the HP Omnibooks, but the closest to Thinkpads that I touched and like was a set of Compaqs circa 2002/03/04 - before I ever touched a thinkpad.
T61 8892-02U: 14.1"SXGA+/2.2C2D/4G/XP|Adv Mini Dock|30" Gateway XHD3000 WQXGA via Dual-link DVI
X61T 7767-96U: 12.1"SXGA+/1.6C2D/3G/Vista|Ultrabase
W510 4319-2PU: 15.6"FHD/i7-720QM/4G/Win7Pro64 (for dad)
T43 1875-DLU: 14.1"XGA/1.7PM-740/1G/XP (Old)

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