The ThinkPad is Dead, Long Live..... ?

[Cigarguy]

Lenovo make most of their money because the have access to the largest and the largest growth market....China. It is their home turf and they have a virtual monopoly against anybody else. The Chinese first and foremost will take care and protect one of their own.

As for their sales everywhere else, they suffer as much as anybody else in the PC hardware industry. Personally I don't think Lenovo gives a flying fadoo about the needs, requirements and sales in other countries.

[pianowizard]

As far as I do unstand from the general news, Lenovo is making money overall,
but about the Thinkpad sub-division I am not sure at all.

What I read a month or two ago is that Lenovo now makes more money from smartphone sales (mainly in China) than from Thinkpads.

[Puppy]

What I read a month or two ago is that Lenovo now makes more money from smartphone sales (mainly in China) than from Thinkpads.

Time to handover ThinkPads classic to someone more appropriate (Panasonic) ?

[ThinkPad560X]

I also noticed that the goverment in USA dont use ThinkPads / ThinkCentre desktops anymore since its a china company brand and worry about what they install in them. I think from I heard a back door for spying or something like that. I think NASA dont use them anymore eaither as I seen DELLS and HPs in the last NASA images I saw. I miss the old IBM ThinkPads with the red,green and blue lettering. It was just a basic flat coloring, now they are all glossy, but IBM no longer owns the Think brand anymore. Im still staying with my old ThinkPads and IBM desktops.

By the way havnt been on in awail but all I see at the top of my screen now is just the 2nd HDD link, no other ThinkPad stuff. So is the ThinkPad brand diying out?

[csioucs]

...Simply put: What made the ThinkPad the best was that it was the only laptop designed for SERIOUS WORK. [...] It's a sad state of affairs. [...] Where does a power user go these days to find what used to exist at IBM years ago? Is Dell now the business king of laptops?

Unfortunately and painfully, Dell seems to have stepped into the vacuum created by weakening of the Thinkpad
As a case in point to the above quote my first thought when Dell M4800 and M6800 were announced was: this is what the Thinkpad should have been. These even have trackpoint buttons, not to mention a potential that seems to go beyond the maximum of current Thinkpads (I just can't wait to be corrected on this one - the W530 is close but M6800 takes possibilities further), in workhorse/force terms.

Paranthetically, if I may add, there are otherwise highlights as the Helix, perfectible, not very workhorsish, but quite versatile.

So the Thinkpad Workhorse isn't the best anymore. Long live the Precision M...?
_____________
edited for clarity.

[Summilux]

Unfortunately and painfully, Dell seems to have stepped into the vacuum created by weakening of the Thinkpad
As a case in point to the above quote my first thought when Dell M4800 and M6800 were announced was: this is what the Thinkpad should have been. These even have trackpoint buttons

Oh wow, and their semi-island keyboard doesn't look too far off a regular one! And there are latches too!
Now if only they could streamline that a bit, remove the DVD player and make it 13"... could be a replacement for my X220 (when it dies). The square design with some aluminium and a coloured lid isn't half bad either.

[thinkmad1978]

So the Thinkpad Workhorse isn't the best anymore. Long live the Precision M...?
_____________
edited for clarity.

I took a look at the Dell website and the Precision line looks intriguing. I didn't see any TrackPoints on any of the models so I think that technology will ultimately die with Lenovo.

Sidenote: Although touch screens are ultimately going to replace both TrackPoint and TouchPad (because users like running their dirty fingers across their cell phones these days) the TrackPoint was better, and if I could get it on a laptop other than the Lenovo line, I would in a heartbeat. (Proof once again that superior*** technology is often lost on the masses.)

***Followup to sidenote: Superior in the sense that you could control the location of the cursor without taking your hands off the keyboard thereby allowing you a level of "multi-tasking" control never before seen in computing, not even possible with desktop computers with keyboard and mouse. (Again, most people gloss over this point, but you can never be more proficient with a TouchPad because you have to continually "re-clutch" the home row. The hands travel a million more miles with a TouchPad over a TrackPoint. Excessive travel causes fatigue.)

Anyhoo...

[pianowizard]

I took a look at the Dell website and the Precision line looks intriguing. I didn't see any TrackPoints on any of the models

Look more carefully. Both the M6800 and M4800 have trackpoints.

Superior in the sense that you could control the location of the cursor without taking your hands off the keyboard thereby allowing you a level of "multi-tasking" control never before seen in computing, not even possible with desktop computers with keyboard and mouse. (Again, most people gloss over this point, but you can never be more proficient with a TouchPad because you have to continually "re-clutch" the home row. The hands travel a million more miles with a TouchPad over a TrackPoint. Excessive travel causes fatigue.)

Based on your reasoning, would you rank efficiency and ergonomics as follows: trackpoint > touchpad > desktop mouse?

[jdk]

So the Thinkpad Workhorse isn't the best anymore. Long live the Precision M...?
_____________
edited for clarity.

I took a look at the Dell website and the Precision line looks intriguing. I didn't see any TrackPoints on any of the models so I think that technology will ultimately die with Lenovo.

Sidenote: Although touch screens are ultimately going to replace both TrackPoint and TouchPad (because users like running their dirty fingers across their cell phones these days) the TrackPoint was better, and if I could get it on a laptop other than the Lenovo line, I would in a heartbeat. (Proof once again that superior*** technology is often lost on the masses.)

***Followup to sidenote: Superior in the sense that you could control the location of the cursor without taking your hands off the keyboard thereby allowing you a level of "multi-tasking" control never before seen in computing, not even possible with desktop computers with keyboard and mouse. (Again, most people gloss over this point, but you can never be more proficient with a TouchPad because you have to continually "re-clutch" the home row. The hands travel a million more miles with a TouchPad over a TrackPoint. Excessive travel causes fatigue.)

Anyhoo...

What's the matter with the Elitebook? I've owned two myself now, the Trackpoint is standard and even the newest models retain discrete buttons for the Trackpoint.

[lead_org]

I love how the OP is posting about the need for IBM ThinkPad quality, but yet at the same time is complaining about how ThinkPad is costing more than 1000 dollars. The point about IBM's ThinkPad was they WERE not cheap, and you get quality in return. If you want quality, prepare to pay for it. If you want cheaper laptop, then don't lament about quality decline, or that the business laptops looking like consumer grade laptops.

http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.ph ... 39#p721239

[jdrou]

I took a look at the Dell website and the Precision line looks intriguing. I didn't see any TrackPoints on any of the models

Look more carefully. Both the M6800 and M4800 have trackpoints.

Yes, I think the only Precisions without trackpoint have been the M6300 and M2400.

[Temetka]

I switched to Dell as detailed here: http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=112125

For many reasons. This post is being brought to you care of a Precision M4500. A very nice laptop, which is holds up very well, is very powerful and is a joy to type on. Thinkpads are wonderful machine. I left at the T61 line and will remember all of Thinkpads listed in my signature with wonderful memories. But at the end of the day Lenovo needs to make money. It's not going to do that selling $2,000 high end laptops. It's going to do it selling $799 low grade machines to millions of customers instead of a few hundred thousand.

We can whine, moan, and in general be upset about it.

You know what's going to change?

Nothing.

The bottom line rules all. Period.

[Puppy]

Dell Latitude E7440 ? Sad but true http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Del ... 185.0.html

- 14" FHD IPS option
- better keyboard layout than current ThinkPads (F keys)
- trackpoint + dedicated mechanical buttons
- dedicated volume control buttons
- old ThinkPad hinges design
- LED indicators

[Temetka]

Almost all of my clients are Dell customers. Typically using Dell servers, Latitudes and Precisions. It's actually rather nice to have 1 vendor for everything. The above mentioned Latitude looks like a very nice machine. I am looking forward to deploying some of them for my clients. None of my clients order Inspirons though, and for good reason. They aren't business / enterprise class hardware. They are consumer grade.

I will keep a candle lit for Lenovo, and hope they get their heads out of their proverbial backsides and put out something that can compete with Dell's latest offerings. That being said, I highly doubt that will be the case. I think it is time for us to gather our memories, tell our stories, and move on.

[pianowizard]

Currently, the best balance between mobility and productivity is Sony's Pro 13 which just came out last week: 13.3" 1920x1080 touchscreen, 2.34 lbs, carbon fiber.

I just bought one! It's actually a tiny bit lighter than 2.34 lbs: 2.33 lbs. I haven't used it much yet but it looks like a keeper. I will sell my 1.41-lb Sony X Series for really cheap, since it's not in good or even fair condition.

[trmsw]

As a touch-typist, the keyboard is extremely to me, and I too hate British keyboards. But I consider keyboard layout and the size/shape of individual keys to be part of the design, not quality. To me, "quality" refers to material, fit and finish, durability, sturdiness, screen quality (contrast, color, viewing angles), keyboard action, etc.

I was wondering if this means that US keyboards have a physically different layout, something that can't be fixed by switching the software / OS layout? As a touch-typist doesn't need to look at the keys, I guess that's what you mean.

I just moved to an X230 from an X61s and I'm still trying to get used to the keyboard. My typing speed is about the same on both machines but it doesn't feel that way. I must be in the habit of hitting the edges of the keys, and it feels wrong with the island layout's sharp edges.
Battery life and general speed are of course much better but I put an SXGA+ screen in the X61s so the new widescreen crap resolution is a real disappointment.
I'm praying some bios whiz kid wil make it possible to swap in an old-style keyboard (or create a Haswell mobo for the X61)

It was good while it lasted.

[dr_st]

I was wondering if this means that US keyboards have a physically different layout, something that can't be fixed by switching the software / OS layout? As a touch-typist doesn't need to look at the keys, I guess that's what you mean.

There are (and always have been) several different physical layouts of Thinkpad keyboards. It's not a matter of software / OS layout, which deals with how the keypresses are interpreted, the keyboard physically looks different.

The US layout (which is also used in other countries, incidentally, Israel) has the long Left Shift and the long, single-line Enter.

UK/EU layouts change to a two-row, vertical reverse-L shaped Enter, shorten the Left Shift key to add another backslash key, and make a few extra changes. I hate this layout with passion. The shape of the Enter can be used to (it's not like the slim single-row Enter is ideal), but short Left Shift is a complete no-no.

The Japanese layout adds a whole bunch of extra keys at the bottom row, making the spacebar relatively tiny.

You can find pictures of all layouts on the web.

[Puppy]

but short Left Shift is a complete no-no.

Agree. That's why I use US keyboard over here (EU).

[automobus]

US layout … UK/EU layouts

These physical layouts are colloquially named ANSI and ISO.

[dr_st]

Indeed. Here's a useful and accessible reference.
http://deskthority.net/wiki/ANSI_vs_ISO

[Saucey]

...they have access to the largest and the largest growth market....China.

Originally I wanted to learn Japanese as secondary languague, but I forget that I might have to learn the language of the new trade.
It would be fun to go to China and see how they haggle prices.
Its possibly why Lenovo is doing so well, they leave much much room for haggle profits.

Best Buy had to leave China because they weren't into that, they tried to sell stuff like here in the US.

[Cigarguy]

Haggling in Asia, Arabian Peninsula, Eastern Europe, South America and Africa is the norm and is expected.

China is such a huge market. The Chinese government is also very protectionist and looks after their own. It's hard to compete. For example, I've read somewhere that China Mobile have over 700 million subscribers. While Canada have a population of approximately 30 million with 3 major mobile provider. All 3 are considered big and profitable corporations in this country.

[ajkula66]

The Japanese layout adds a whole bunch of extra keys at the bottom row, making the spacebar relatively tiny.

That was the - the spacebar, not the layout - biggest gripe I had with my past Panasonic Let's Note machines...the keyboard on a 10.4" laptop was tiny to begin with, and the US/Japanese layout made the spacebar a real pain to hit...see here:



Had these babies been available with any type of conventional US or UK English keyboard, I'd likely still be in possession of one...

[trmsw]

The US layout (which is also used in other countries, incidentally, Israel) has the long Left Shift and the long, single-line Enter.

UK/EU layouts change to a two-row, vertical reverse-L shaped Enter, shorten the Left Shift key to add another backslash key, and make a few extra changes. I hate this layout with passion. The shape of the Enter can be used to (it's not like the slim single-row Enter is ideal), but short Left Shift is a complete no-no.

That's useful to know. As an EU worker who has to switch between one of three layouts for every email I write, I will take care never to buy one of these ansi keyboards

[dr_st]

Interestingly, I too switch between three different layouts frequently. But I'd still rather have the ANSI keyboard because of the Shift.

If only they had placed the extra key on the ISO to the right of the Right shift, and left the Left shift alone, it would have been perfect.

I guess the idea was to make all the character that input keys together, so that they are easier to reach while typing. The fundamental flaw in this thinking was that even while typing, the Left Shift is needed far far far more frequently than obscure characters like \ | # ~, so the given ISO layout is unfortunately dumb and crippled.

[trmsw]

Sorry, that was badly expressed. The problem isn't switching layout but the fact that the layouts I have to use are ISO friendly - French and Portuguese anyway. So it makes more sense for me to get used to the UK layout.
Small left shift is not a problem for me, I still overuse it compared to the right shift. But - back to the topic of the death of thinkpads - what will really cause problems for me is losing the ability to remap caps lock as control once they put useful keys there. It's the perfect place for control, if you use Eacs.

[Puppy]

Toshiba Tecra W50 http://www.slashgear.com/toshiba-tecra- ... -07311928/
- 15.6" 3840 x 2160
- trackpoint
- dedicated mechanical trackpoint buttons
- LED status indicators

[Adda]

Toshiba Tecra W50 http://www.slashgear.com/toshiba-tecra- ... -07311928/
- 15.6" 3840 x 2160
- trackpoint
- dedicated mechanical trackpoint buttons
- LED status indicators

Looks better then anything Lenovo is putting out, even though that W50 misses the mark for me, but at least it has trackpoint buttons.
Status LED's should be a given, not a selling point, what has the world come to

[Puppy]

Is Dell following the Lenovo path ? Dell Precision M3800 "Workstation" http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Del ... 075.0.html

[dr_st]

Lenovo path? There is no Lenovo path. There is only the Apple path which most manufacturers seem to be trying to follow.