First ThinkPad *WITHOUT* trackpoint (ThinkPad 11e)

[Puppy]

Lenovo ThinkPad 11e http://www.ubergizmo.com/2014/01/lenovo ... -students/

Some of us have already predicted the removal of the trackpoint

[emeraldgirl08]

Yep saw that one coming a mile away. Sad that a longstanding integral feature which IMO helped to distinguish the ThinkPad among all others is being discarded so frivolously like refuse. When I bought my first ever laptop (T30) back in 2009 what caught my eye was the red Trackpoint. Now that the red Trackpoint is slowly being phased-out what sort of signature feature (possibly even tradition) will the ThinkPad generate now for future generations? Considering that ThinkPads now are slowly starting to look like all the other 'dime-a-dozen' laptops out there the likely answer is none. What also irritates me is I feel that Lenovo is targeting impressionable young children in their agenda of phasing out the Trackpoints.

I am disliking Lenovo more and more these days

[Medessec]

Aaahhaaaeeeuuhhh... *what makes it a Thinkpad...?!*

I mean, other than the badging and appearance, which in itself... already hardily violates the Thinkpad image.

For me with ThinkPads, "Premium" and "Quality" should come naturally. It's hard enough Lenovo's trashing the Thinkpad's respectable engineering and aesthetic for the sake of marketing... but this laptop here is proof that they really don't care for the brand's future at all. IBM worked it up to where it was now, and Lenovo's just using it's reputation to nab money from the consumer. Lenovo did alright with the first few generations of Thinkpad directly succeeding the T43, but now...

There is absolutely no reason a "Thinkpad" shouldn't have a Trackpoint. IBM made it work across all form factors of notebook, even the 240 and the 560.

[Summilux]

The demise goes as planned and I keep grinning. That's about the only option left when it comes to judging Lenovo's course of action.
Now let's see of David Hilll justifies that.

[pianowizard]

Well, I have been saying this for years: learn to use the touchpad, so that you can wean yourself off the trackpoint. It takes much longer to master the touchpad than the trackpoint, but the effort pays off.

That being said, I am certain that Lenovo's decision to phase out the trackpoint is based on silly reasons, e.g. to make the keyboard look nicer, to cut back the production time by 25 seconds, to cut costs by 80 cents, to make the laptop 0.05 mm thinner, etc.

[automobus]

"Death of ThinkPad" happened with 2007 Santa Rosa models. Now, what is a red pinstripe doing on trackpad? Why not put a thin red rectangle bordering screen, too, huh? Or if red dot is used for blinky power light, then why not put a red ring over power inlet? Why not? Do those ideas sound stupid? Well, red stripe on trackpad is stupid.

computing program a possibility in any school district, as long as there is a decent Internet connection

The elementary schoolhouse of the future: a place where children are remote-controlled.


2014-06-28 edit: I was assuming 2006 Napa models (such as T60) kept older EC, H8S/2161BV. Determined to find the truth, I just found out that like Santa Rosa models, Napa TPads contain EC chip H8S/2116V. Now I opine, "Death of ThinkPad" happened with 2006 model line.

[Puppy]

Now let's see of David Hilll justifies that.

http://blog.lenovo.com/products/why-you ... d-keyboard

Q: Last question, and I deliver this one with a wink—are you getting rid of the TrackPoint?
A: No. We study how to keep improving TrackPoint, not how to remove it.

[Saucey]

Well that is one less component children can break.
I wonder which higher up decided to let it be a ThinkPad rather than an IdeaPad.
My guess is that they would of thought this unit would of tarnished the IdeaPad name...

[JohnD.]

Hanging my head down in shame.

Sniff, Sniff,
John

[Summilux]

http://blog.lenovo.com/products/why-you ... d-keyboard

Q: Last question, and I deliver this one with a wink—are you getting rid of the TrackPoint?
A: No. We study how to keep improving TrackPoint, not how to remove it.

Good find!

Well that is one less component children can break.
I wonder which higher up decided to let it be a ThinkPad rather than an IdeaPad.
My guess is that they would of thought this unit would of tarnished the IdeaPad name...

Yeah. Companies these days are levelling their product lines through the most respectable brand at hand.

Sony has recently merged its in-house, mirrorless NEX brand with the Minolta-inherited, DSLR Alpha brand.
Arguably because all of their cameras will be mirrorless from now on; yet, even though their NEX cameras were actually better received than legacy products, Sony went with what they considered their the most prestigious brand (most pros still rely on DSLRs, and two biggest players -Canon/Nikon- are focused on DSLRs).
Which is odd, considering Sony has been pretty innovative on its own in the last years (NEX and RX lines).

Lenovo too is trying to bargain on its strongest name, in order to compete with the biggest player: Apple.
Yes, Lenovo may be selling more units than any other firm out there, but in terms of brand name, they can't compete with Apple which is plays in a different league. Therefore, Lenovo attempts to strengthen its name whilst copying Apple's design.

[Adda]

No surprises there.

And why shouldn't Lenovo target kids? they don't know anything so they won't complain, they will grow up with junk, and think it's good, as they don't know any better.

Lenovo = MAX WINZ!

[elray]

Well, I have been saying this for years: learn to use the touchpad, so that you can wean yourself off the trackpoint. It takes much longer to master the touchpad than the trackpoint, but the effort pays off.

That being said, I am certain that Lenovo's decision to phase out the trackpoint is based on silly reasons, e.g. to make the keyboard look nicer, to cut back the production time by 25 seconds, to cut costs by 80 cents, to make the laptop 0.05 mm thinner, etc.

Your odd suggestion reminds me of my favorite bumper sticker:

"The beatings will continue until morale improves."


I suspect that the "design" team planted K12 non-typists in their surveys, who observed that very young children (not K12, but I digress...) "might" remove the trackpoint and chew on it, like much like they do on the eraser end of a (gasp) lead pencil, and the hysteria that followed was sufficient to quiet any rational discussion.

[Saucey]

I suspect that the "design" team planted K12 non-typists in their surveys, who observed that very young children (not K12, but I digress...) "might" remove the trackpoint and chew on it, like much like they do on the eraser end of a (gasp) lead pencil, and the hysteria that followed was sufficient to quiet any rational discussion.

Ah you are right...
I remember in High School we used to play games with the rolling ball mouse, usb ports, mix matching VGA plugs, messing with power strips...
Good times. Those were good times.
They removed it so kids wouldn't tamper with it and hide/steal the rubber domes.
But I think its really to shave costs. The US most likely wouldn't of bought those units if they had that, due to cost.
Then again some schools have iPads instead of books, which is somewhat smart given if they can last a good 3 years.
Or if a student was issued one for their whole High School year... I wouldn't know I don't make the rules, besides I'm sure any of our logic or ideas wouldn't apply to a superintendent anyways.

Sorry a bit off topic there.

[ajkula66]

[Temetka]

Well, I have been saying this for years: learn to use the touchpad, so that you can wean yourself off the trackpoint. It takes much longer to master the touchpad than the trackpoint, but the effort pays off.

No. the Trackpoint is superior.

This.

[Medessec]

No. the Trackpoint is superior.

lol... Les not get into Trackpoint versus Touchpad debate...

Although it is possible that for certain situations, either pointer would be better than the other, it's strictly preference. HOWEVER - the big problem is that with a Thinkpad, one always had the CHOICE. UltraNav offered up the opportunity to use either, so if you have a friend or sibling you share your Thinkpad with, and they prefer the touchpad, and you prefer the trackpoint, there isn't the problem.

This luxury, to me, is intrinsic to the Thinkpad's image and characteristics. The Thinkpad was born with the Trackpoint anyway(well, for the most part)... so, to remove the Trackpoint from the Thinkpad, is to remove a part of what makes it a Thinkpad. Following the above points made about kids taking the trackpoints off and chewing on them... they might argue "this is a Thinkpad for kids! This needs to be kid-friendly" and that laws and health & safety regulations is pushing this on Lenovo. In that case, PLEASE don't make it a Thinkpad! Make it one of your useless Ideapads. The Thinkpad really isn't a children's brand anyway... really.

This either: doesn't have to be a Thinkpad, or it needs the Trackpoint. Where it's at right now makes little sense.

[pianowizard]

No. the Trackpoint is superior.

But what are you going to do when you can no longer find a single laptop with a trackpoint?

BTW, the likeliest reason why you find the trackpoint superior is that you haven't tried to learn to use the touchpad. So, there are two reasons for you to learn the touchpad: the trackpoint is disappearing, and once you've mastered the touchpad, you'll find it superior. In general, being adaptive makes life much easier.

[laowai]

No. the Trackpoint is superior.

But what are you going to do when you can no longer find a single laptop with a trackpoint?

BTW, the likeliest reason why you find the trackpoint superior is that you haven't tried to learn to use the touchpad. So, there are two reasons for you to learn the touchpad: the trackpoint is disappearing, and once you've mastered the touchpad, you'll find it superior. In general, being adaptive makes life much easier.

I'm a touchpadder, I'll admit that. However, I personally find the trackpoint has a very firm place in my daily use. Mainly for rather large documents as well as precision-oriented tasks. Touchpad just doesn't accomplish that. Similarly, when I am crunching data to a point where the system gets a bit laggy... trackpoint holds up, touchpad just gets jittery.

[emeraldgirl08]

with a proper Thinkpad, one always had the CHOICE. UltraNav offered up the opportunity to use either, so if you have a friend or sibling you share your Thinkpad with, and they prefer the touchpad, and you prefer the trackpoint, there isn't the problem.

^^^THIS and made a slight adjustment in your original text Medessec. Hope it isn't a bad one

[Medessec]

^^^THIS and made a slight adjustment in your original text Medessec. Hope it isn't a bad one

Well, don't know about "proper". Hard to find a word for it, because the X60/61 didn't have UltraNav... but yeah. I should've worded it differently. Thanks emeraldgirl

But what are you going to do when you can no longer find a single laptop with a trackpoint?

I really doubt this will ever wind up being the case... some manufacturer somewhere will know that there are people out there who still use it, and will capture the monopoly if all other brands decide to skip on the Trackpoint, because it's too "old fashioned", or "dated".

This really doesn't affect me, because I'm pretty avid with any mouse pointer, I can even game with those old Logitech desktop mice that have the giant red ball that you move around. I am what you call "adaptive". For me, the problem isn't losing the Trackpoint, it's losing the option to use the trackpoint.

I can understand with some people that they'd stick with the trackpoint to the end and they don't want to learn anything else... same reason some of us still gripe the loss of 4:3, and the days when laptops were always $2000+. People have grown attached to it, and they don't see any reason it should be changed. And for something as small, cheap, and as novel and characterizing as the trackpoint, I don't blame them. Some manufacturers can make laptops without trackpoints, that's fine. My Clevo doesn't have a Trackpoint. But Thinkpads...

[ajkula66]

Some manufacturers can make laptops without trackpoints, that's fine. My Clevo doesn't have a Trackpoint. But Thinkpads...

^^^^^

This. Times zillion.

I can't be angry with Panasonic for pushing 6-row keyboard and touchpads. Heck, they've been doing it for 15 years.

That's why I have an old IBM mouse in the bag that houses my work-issued CF-31.

I'm not saying Lenovo shouldn't be exploring all markets imaginable. Slapping a "ThinkPad" logo on just about any piece of equipment is just...stomach-turning.

And I'm being kind here.

[emeraldgirl08]

I was being facetious about the 'proper' bit so it's okay

I am okay with adaptation. I recently bought a Dell. It is nice. It has its faults but it is working fine for me. Trackpoint stinks to all get-out but Dell was nice enough to include it as standard with the E6510 series. I use a wireless mouse mostly when I use the Dell and keep it around because of the FHD and LED screen. I bought it for <$200 so I think I did okay with this purchase. I also once owned an Apple iBook. Screen was a lot more vivid and colorful than an R52 I had at the time. The speakers on the iBook also put the R52 to shame quite easily. I eventually sold it as I needed the money for school.

With that said if you asked me if I would plop a grand down for a new Lenovo I would say 'nope.' Most people don't even realize that you can do so much with an older and less costly model of laptop versus spending big money on new hardware to type up an essay I was surprised when I recently bought Bioshock Inifinte out of curiosity (was on sale for $9) and it played on my T500. If the T500 can handle a game like Bioshock Inifinte then it should be able to last a little bit longer for me.

[ToniCipriani]

But what are you going to do when you can no longer find a single laptop with a trackpoint?

I really doubt this will ever wind up being the case... some manufacturer somewhere will know that there are people out there who still use it, and will capture the monopoly if all other brands decide to skip on the Trackpoint, because it's too "old fashioned", or "dated".

They said the same thing about QWERTY keyboards on phones. Look at me I'm hanging to my almost 3 year old HP Pre 3 and scavenging a dead one for parts because everyone went slate.

As for your monopoly theory... I hope Lenovo is the one to monopolize this. Frankly all the other ones suck.

[pianowizard]

They said the same thing about QWERTY keyboards on phones. Look at me I'm hanging to my almost 3 year old HP Pre 3 and scavenging a dead one for parts because everyone went slate.

And I am still using my HTC Touch Pro2, which came out in May 2009 and I bought mine in April 2010. I also have an HTC Arrive in storage, ready to replace the Touch Pro2 when it dies. The Motorola Photon Q 4G LTE seems to be the last phone to have a slide-out keyboard, and it's already one and a half years old!

[ToniCipriani]

They said the same thing about QWERTY keyboards on phones. Look at me I'm hanging to my almost 3 year old HP Pre 3 and scavenging a dead one for parts because everyone went slate.

And I am still using my HTC Touch Pro2, which came out in May 2009 and I bought mine in April 2010. I also have an HTC Arrive in storage, ready to replace the Touch Pro2 when it dies. The Motorola Photon Q 4G LTE seems to be the last phone to have a slide-out keyboard, and it's already one and a half years old!

Well there is the LG F3Q that was just launched by T-Mobile, but seems like everything coming out with keyboards are low end stuff.

[elray]

But what are you going to do when you can no longer find a single laptop with a trackpoint?

BTW, the likeliest reason why you find the trackpoint superior is that you haven't tried to learn to use the touchpad. So, there are two reasons for you to learn the touchpad: the trackpoint is disappearing, and once you've mastered the touchpad, you'll find it superior. In general, being adaptive makes life much easier.

Wow. Smug, much?

The likeliest reason we find the trackpoint superior is that we HAVE used the touchpad, mouse, and trackball, and found all of them detract from the purpose of an IBM keyboard: typing.

Perhaps as a pianist, you have greater dexterity, control, and finesse, that enables you to practice being "adaptive" and find happiness in the touchpad and the generally horrific keyboards found on the variety of non-IBM featherweight units you cherish. But I think that experience is fairly exclusive to you, alone.

With the debut of buttonless clickpads, as far as I'm concerned, the Trackpoint is already no longer available, so you've got your wish. But I assure you, the only form in which you'll find me "mastering" a touchpad, is permanently disabling it whenever it dares trespass on my palmrest.

My original thinkpad is an adult now, and still works like the first day it came home, so I'm not really worried about the future, even if it means using a 10-year-old laptop. But I'm hopeful that we'll see options like 51nb breathe new life into old chassis.

[kony]

No. the Trackpoint is superior.

But what are you going to do when you can no longer find a single laptop with a trackpoint?

BTW, the likeliest reason why you find the trackpoint superior is that you haven't tried to learn to use the touchpad. So, there are two reasons for you to learn the touchpad: the trackpoint is disappearing, and once you've mastered the touchpad, you'll find it superior. In general, being adaptive makes life much easier.

Nope. I always used touchpad and found it quite terrible, but I didn't know any alternative (apart from trackball which I used on one laptop, but it was even worse), so I imagined all non-real-mouse mouse input is pretty much similarly disappointing. I only got to use trackpoint with my new T430. At first I ignored it and used touchpad, but after trying trackpoint out for one day, I disabled touchpad in BIOS and never came back to it. Trackpoint it still not a mouse, however, it's already quite convenient and I am fine with using it instead of a mouse. I can't be the only one and I bet more than a half of the older users here who say trackpoint is much better really is much better for them and they don't use it just out of a habit.

[Summilux]

BTW, the likeliest reason why you find the trackpoint superior is that you haven't tried to learn to use the touchpad. So, there are two reasons for you to learn the touchpad: the trackpoint is disappearing, and once you've mastered the touchpad, you'll find it superior. In general, being adaptive makes life much easier.

Bit surprised to read that coming from you.
Or you're playing the devil's advocate, here.

[Adda]

I use the trackpoint as my main input device, even though I have a table mouse right next to my ThinkPad, a really good table mouse too.
The IME3.0 beat the Logitech G5 and SteelSeries Ikari, but the trackpoint is being used much more, but I wouldn't want to be without any of them.

I have never, and have never seen anyone do anything half competent using a touchpad, all it does is make accidental clicks and move the mouse around at random, whenever it's enabled.

[Medessec]

The likeliest reason we find the trackpoint superior is that we HAVE used the touchpad, mouse, and trackball, and found all of them detract from the purpose of an IBM keyboard: typing.

Wow... I would've never thought that the trackpoint would b such an insane convenience for the touch-typer. That makes total sense...

I don't touch type... but I'm still pretty avid at the trackpoint- partially because I use my X60 Tablet a lot, and it only has a trackpoint.