Best Thinkpad Screen for my old eyes

[dwilsonfl]

yeah, I'm old now and my eyesight isn't all that. Was wondering what screen of Thinkpads past and present would be the best for couch-seated work. I normally have to "plus up" the screen a couple of clicks to be comfortable with it.

So is there a pixel density deal that would make the text more sharp, or a format that would make it easier?

David

[Medessec]

My dad strongly prefers 1280x800 to any of the resolutions I use. You can go for XGA(1024x768), but I think that regardless, it's just not enough space on your screen to do much of anything.

1280x800 Thinkpads include most Z-series, up to the T400/T500. Most widescreened X-series use this res too, albeit on a smaller screen, so the pixel density is slightly higher.

[pianowizard]

On PC laptops with at least XGA resolution, these screens have the lowest pixel densities:

15.0" 1024x768 --> 85.33 DPI
14.1" 1024x768 --> 90.78 DPI
13.3" 1024x768 --> 96.24 DPI
16.0" 1366x768 --> 97.94 DPI
15.4" 1280x800 --> 98.02 DPI
17.0" 1440x900 --> 99.89 DPI

If weight isn't a concern, I think you should look into getting a 17.0" 1440x900 laptop. But if I were you, I would invest in one or two desktop monitors. These sizes have the lowest pixel densities:

27.0" 1920x1080 --> 81.59 DPI
27.5" 1920x1280 --> 82.33 DPI
27.0" 1920x1200 -->83.86 DPI
18.5" 1366x768 --> 84.71 DPI
15.0" 1024x768 --> 85.33 DPI
19.0" 1280x1024 --> 86.27 DPI

[ZaZ]

What notebook are you using now that's too small? I always liked the SXGA+ IPS LCD in my R60e. It's got a fairly low pixel density at 115, but you still get a decent amount of vertical resolution. Plus, a quality screen tends to be easier on the eyes. Mated with a SSD, a T60 or R60(e) is still a capable performer as long as you aren't pushing it, though they are a bit on the heavy side compared to today's machines. The quality of the screen may have deteriorated some too, being eight years old and bulb lit.

[dwilsonfl]

T60p 4:3 flexview. It just doesn't seem sharp. I can get the characters bigger of course but it's just not sharp. I have a ton of laptops to choose from, most old. The Chromebooks are 12" and that's too small. The X60t is sharper but it's too small.

Maybe a big laptop with a newer display technology or a new panel for one of the older ones.

Just aggravating.

David

[RealBlackStuff]

If it's a 15" T60 or T60p, your best bet would be a NOS (new old stock) SXGA+, which is also IPS.
Check with TuuS, he was selling them a while ago, and may still have one.

[TTY]

If you enlarge the image by plussing up, it will always get blurry. There is another way of increasing font and image size while maintaining sharpness. It's done by scaling the screen output by adjusting DPI. I don't know what operating system you use, but in Vista one can get to those settings by right-clicking the desktop. As i'm using a low-resolution screen myself, i have no experience whether such scaling works sufficiently well across all programs.

I've also seen that in some combinations of programs and operating systems, the screen image is blurred. I experienced that with the Opera browser in 64 bit Windows 7. In that case, i managed to get Opera to display a sharp image by switching Windows from Aero to the classical graphical user interface.

[Puppy]

As for software-rendered blurry text in native display resolution, it can be turned off in Windows 7 (by selecting Windows Classic theme) and older. There is no way to get rid of it in Windows 8. Also Internet Explorer 9 and later has these unreadable blurry fonts by default (regardless of OS settings) without any option to turn it off (there is semi working hack), the only solution is to use different browser (Firefox).

I agree with this article (unless there are 10 times or more higher DPI displays available)
http://annystudio.com/misc/anti-aliased-fonts-hurt/

Another nasty trick is hardware/driver based blurry rendering present on HD3000 drivers and Lenovo notebooks
http://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?f=43&t=111111

[TTY]

Also Internet Explorer 9 and later has these unreadable blurry fonts by default (regardless of OS settings) without any option to turn it off

I can't confirm that for IE9 in 32 bit Vista. The fonts are sharp. This is for a low resolution display without adjusting scaling by changing DPI values.

[Puppy]

I can't confirm that for IE9 in 32 bit Vista. The fonts are sharp. This is for a low resolution display without adjusting scaling by changing DPI values.

Browse a web page with black text on white background, press PrintScreen key, open Windows Paint application, paste the screenshot from clipboard, zoom it 400%. If you see any pixel with color other than black or white, it is blurry. See http://members.upc.cz/petr/temp/BlurryText.png

There is another test here http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/subpixel.php I consinder the first (no smoothing) the only readable one on every LCD display (12" 1024x768, 12.5" 1366x768, 15" 1400x1050, 20" 1600x1200) in native resolution. Other ones are horrible blurry, especially the "i" letter with all the rainbow around. Anti-aliasing might work if there was a 15" 14000x10500 display but not now.

[TTY]

T60p 4:3 flexview. It just doesn't seem sharp.

What resolution have you set?

[lead_org]

in terms of screen and readibility, the ThinkPad Yoga's HD IPS and the ThinkPad Twist's HD IPS are really great in terms of readability, contrast and viewing angle.

[ZaZ]

In my experience, touch, which the Yoga and Twist have, adds glare, which reduces readability.

[dwilsonfl]

I have the resolution set for 1400x1050 on the T60p 15"

Was noticing last night that my Nexus 7 (2012) is very sharp and easier to read except for the size.

[TTY]

What is the machine type and model for your notebook? It's a seven character string in the form xxxx-xxx and can be found on the bottom of the notebook.

[dwilsonfl]

2007-J2U with a Flexview display top resolution is 1400x1050

I just set the DPI to 150%, but the characters are not sharp.

[TTY]

2007-J2U with a Flexview display top resolution is 1400x1050

Are you sure that 1400*1050 is also the panel's native resolution? Could it be that you have a UXGA panel (1600*1200), but the graphics chip limits max resolution to SXGA+ (1400*1050)? If you're not sure of the native resolution, you might be able to read it from Windows Device Manager.

[dwilsonfl]

1400x1050 is showing as highest resolution in control panel

[TTY]

I'm sorry, i made a mistake. I wrote control panel when i meant device manager. 1400*1050 in device manager too?

[pianowizard]

2007-J2U with a Flexview display top resolution is 1400x1050

Lenovo.com shows a 1024x768 panel:

T7200(2GHz), 1GB RAM, 80GB 5400rpm HD, 15in 1024x768 LCD, 64MB ATI Radeon X1300, CDRW/DVD, Intel 802.11abg wireless, Modem, 1Gb Ethernet, UltraNav, Secure chip, Fingerprint reader, 9c Li-Ion batt, WinXP Pro

[dwilsonfl]

Here's what PC Doctor reports - obviously I have swapped some components.

System Board
Manufacturer LENOVO
Product 2008YGP
Chipset Intel i945GM/PM/GMS/GT 940GML
Southbridge Intel ICH7M/ICH7U

Video Card
ATI Mobility Radeon X1400
Video Card Chip Type ATI Radeon Graphics Processor (0x7145)
Video Card Memory 128.00 MB
Driver c:\windows\system32\drivers\atikmdag.sys
Driver Version 8.561.0.0, 12-1-2008
Display
Wide viewing angle & High density FlexView Display 1400x1050
Mode 1400 x 1050 (32-bit) (60 Hz)
Signal Type Digital

[pianowizard]

Here's what PC Doctor reports - obviously I have swapped some components.

It's not that obvious. I have come across video cards and monitors that allow one to set the resolution above the native resolution, which of course causes the image to look awful. Anyway, if you still have the original XGA panel, put it back and you may like it more, since things would look huge, and the brightness is probably also higher.

[RealBlackStuff]

That screen has probably been in there from the start, and must be worn out by now.
For clearer picture I would suggest to have a look at a 15.4" or 15.6" widescreen with glossy LED-LCD and a resolution of 1440x900 (WXGA+) or 1366x768 (HD).
These screens are definitely brighter and have clearer text.
Just in case:
Currently I have a Toshiba Satellite C655-S5206 for sale with a brand-new 15.6" HD glossy LED-screen from LG Philips.
80GB hard disk with fresh W7-Home Premium 64-bit and recovery partition intact.
4GB RAM, integrated webcam, the keyboard includes a numeric keypad.
Complete with battery and charger, in excellent condition, $225.- shipped within USA.
PM me if interested.

[TTY]

Here's what PC Doctor reports - obviously I have swapped some components.

If you haven't done so already, you might want to install the proper monitor file for the panel and update the graphics (video) driver. Also make sure you have ClearType font smoothing turned on. You write that you set DPI scaling to 150%. I don't know how many PPI that corresponds to. The SXGA+ panel has 133 PPI. If 150% isn't equal to 133 PPI, you might want to adjust DPI scaling to get 133 PPI. If Windows doesn't render text sufficiently large with such settings, i seem to remember that Windows XP will allow the user to set large system fonts.

EDIT: it seems that there are only two different LCD cable assemblies for 15" T60 panels. One for machines without Bluetooth, and one for machines with Bluetooth. So you don't need different cable assemblies depending on panel resolution.

[TTY]

You might be able to improve sharpness in some programs, e.g. Adobe Reader. Adobe Reader will let you set screen resolution. Browsers will let you zoom without losing sharpness.

[FragrantHead]

I'm in the same position as the original poster. My eyes just aren't that good anymore. I prefer 100dpi and lower. Currently using a T520 with a 1366x768 15.6" standard screen, which is just over, and fine for me. Screens that are 120dpi and above, I really hate.

It depends on what software you're running, of course. I still run a Windows XP virtual machine, among other things, and much prefer the low DPI screen for that. Windows 7 isn't all gravy either though. Desktop icons are bigger and most of Windows itself scales nicely enough, but not everything. I inevitably come across software that doesn't scale, such as the ESET virus scanner / firewall that I use, as well as the occasional web-page that disallows scaling. It's a pain.

My T520 standard screen, at least, is not bad in terms of contrast. Having experienced the low contrast and higher res. screen of a T410s, I would avoid that. Whenever I look at reviews of the T4x0s series on notebookcheck, they seem to have the absolute worst black-level and contrast results. High brightness, yes, but low contrast.

If I needed a new machine right now, the T540p with the 3K IPS screen would be an absolute no-brainer for me. That screen has an insanely high DPI, something like 220. According to a post in another forum, from an owner, the usual blurriness when selecting a lower than native resolution isn't an issue with it. Even if it was, I would probably run the screen at 1440x810, exactly half the native resolution, which should be completely sharp. (I have no knowledge whether that resolution is available, but would assume it is).

[lophiomys]

You are mostly discussing shortcomings of the operating system or graphics subsystem.

We are in the situation that MS Windows running on Thinkpads by factory
is not able to properly handle high-resolution displays. MS is using dirty tricks under the hood.
A remarkable fact in the early 21st century.

It is not rocket science, and compared to the financial ressources of M$,I do not understand, why MS is not offering a suitable solution.
Other creators of operating systems/GUIs have already made more progress in this area, e.g. KDE or OS X.

IMO a high resolution screen, with high contrast would be the best for "your old eyes",
given an operating system/GUI system, which would be able to display a 12point text
as a real 12 point text on the screen rendered at 150DPI or 220DPI.

[FragrantHead]

Lophiomys, if you're talking to me, well, yes, I base my buying decisions on where Windows is, not where I wish it was.

I've used OS X, briefly, a few years ago and agree it was much better even then. But Apple breaks with the past more easily than MS. The switch to OS X was a big one. I don't believe Apple are still supporting older applications in their latest versions of that OS. Similarly I have a generation 2 iPod Touch and, up until Apple reversed their stance last September, it was impossible to download older applications from the App Store that would run on it, rendering the device quite useless. I'd cursed Apple for obsoleting their products as quickly as they do. Seems they listened to people like me. Due to their size and target markets Apple and MS have a different balancing act. MS is slower for a reason and, as a business user, I'm certainly happy that you can still run applications written as far back as 1995 on their latest OSs.

[kony]

Funny fact: I can run an old dictionary I use (made for Windows 95/98) under Linux Mint 15 64bit using Wine just fine, whereas Windows 7 SP1 64bit won't run it, because apparently application is too old and incompatible I tried everything, all compatibility options, but it just wouldn't start under Win7 no matter what.

[lophiomys]

Sorry Fragranthead, I intended my previous post as a general answer.

I am also stuck to Windows and therefore kind of enraged about the regressions I see in the graphics subsubsytem (remember Vista ! , 7, Win8).
On the other side I am not an Apple fan either, but they do offer a better Hardware / Software combination than any of the competitors,
despite some shortcomings and bad politics Apple pursues.

Back on topic,
I would recommend this thread a Hardforum:

Best Panel Type for Extensive Reading & Working ( Eye fatige)
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1806859

Flicker Free Monitor Database at TFT Central
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/fl ... tabase.htm

and in German language
http://www.prad.de