Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#181 Post by Puppy » Thu Jun 16, 2016 3:38 pm

Troels wrote:I'm actually shocked that the difference really is that severe. :lol:
Wow, such crappy display. Lenovo can't be serious. Especially the 4th picture from the left side. It looks worse than a TN panel. Also wondering whether Lenovo deletes that post including those pictures.

As for your repair, I don't know whether it applies in the EU in general but you can ask for refund if the repair takes more than 30 days over here.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#182 Post by pianowizard » Thu Jun 16, 2016 5:47 pm

Troels wrote:Battle of the 4K panels: Dell XPS15 9550 vs. Lenovo Thinkpad P50
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... 261#M60555
I would love to make a side-by-side comparison of my Dell Inspiron 15-7568's 15.6" UHD with these two. I bet my Inspiron would beat the P50 as well, despite being a much cheaper system: $605 including tax and shipping from Dell Outlet. Though Dell doesn't explicitly say that its screen is IPS, advertising it merely as "Truelife", it surely looks IPS-like.

For over a decade I avoided all Inspirons, but recently Dell divided the Inspirons into three classes: the 3000 series which remains as crappy as the worst Inspirons of the past, the 5000 series which is supposed to be somewhat better though I haven't seen one in person, and the 7000 series which is surprisingly premium. My 15-7568 actually feels more solid and professional than many Latitudes I've seen. At only 4.64 lbs, it's also more portable than the traditional Inspiron; in fact I think it's currently the second lightest 15-inch 2-in-1 laptop, second only to HP's 4.2-lb Spectre x360 15t. I decided to buy this Dell after playing with a display unit at Best Buy.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#183 Post by Puppy » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:53 am

Lenovo ThinkPad P50 Workstation (Xeon, 4K) Review http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Thi ... 604.0.html

Our initial measurements are a bit sobering though, because while we can measure a decent maximum luminance of 276 cd/m², the average brightness is just 250 cd/m² due to the mediocre brightness distribution of 86 percent. This means we are pretty far away from the manufacturer's claims. The contrast ratio of 801:1 (black value: 0.31 cd/m²) cannot meet the advertised value, either.

Contrary to the Full-HD panel, the 4K screen uses PWM to control its brightness. This is the case for level 8/15 and lower at a pretty low frequency of 217 Hz, so there can be problems for sensitive user

Similar to the FHD model, the IPS technology ensures wide viewing angles, but we can once again see a comparatively quick brightness drop when we change the viewing angle.

In short, it confirms the display is crap given the price tag.

Quote from PSREF:
300 nits
1000:1 contrast ratio
100% gamut

Reality (from the review):
Average: 249.7 cd/m²
Contrast: 806:1 (probably a typo, should be 801:1)
94.5% sRGB (Calman) 98.6% sRGB (Argyll)
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#184 Post by 600X » Sun Jul 10, 2016 11:33 am

I measured the 4k display myself last year and got over 99% AdobeRGB and over 1000:1 contrast. (black level 0.21)
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#185 Post by Puppy » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:37 pm

600X wrote:I measured the 4k display myself last year and got over 99% AdobeRGB and over 1000:1 contrast. (black level 0.21)
Same panel model ? It is either difference in the measurment method of the vendor is not able to keep the specs across individual panels (still not acceptable for the price tag).
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#186 Post by 600X » Mon Jul 11, 2016 4:03 am

There is only one 4k panel available as far as I know. I used a Spyder to measure.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#187 Post by Puppy » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:07 am

When I browse the Lenovo P forum I came to a conclusion that the older "p" tag (like T60p) stand for performance while current P series means problems.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#188 Post by Troels » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:40 pm

Happy customers don't complain. Or maybe there are no happy customers at all :lol:
For all of those not following the P50 4K display thread on Lenovo's forum and wants to have a laugh: I received my P50 back, and nothing was exchanged or corrected after 2½ months, except updating to the latest BIOS firmware. I want a job like that. Getting paid for doing next to nothing :)

So my last note to the local Danish technical department is that apparently Lenovo thinks Dell XPS15 should have better displays than the P50 with a comparison picture attached. Also as this was Lenovo's level of quality I made it clear that I could under no circumstances consider them for either private or professional use in the future.

Btw. their enclosed "repair note" sheets are quite hilariously translated into Danish. Gibberish extracted from google translate. The title of the paper is written partly in Dutch. It looks like a scam, but it isn't.

EDIT: That being said, except for the display, I'm more than happy with my P50. The 3D performance is insane compared to the T60p, it runs cooler and the fans are very silent by comparison (when they run). It appears as if Windows 10 UI isn't color space aware. Hopefully, I'm missing something.

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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#189 Post by Troels » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:18 pm

600X wrote:There is only one 4k panel available as far as I know. I used a Spyder to measure.
With all due respect, precisely measuring gamuts outside sRGB requires a better colorimeter than a Spyder. Arguably, a brand-new Spyder4 might just do it, though. The color space of the 4K P50 is not supposed to cover 100% aRGB, but 100% NTSC (something like 90% aRGB, IIRC).
You would be able to do contrast measurements using the Spyder, and about 1000:1 were about the same that I got with my DTP94. So where those 200:1 went missing is a good question. Maybe their measurement device is (by design) not fully perpendicular to the screen?

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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#190 Post by Puppy » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:13 am

Cheap displays are not the only P50 issue. Sudden palmrest cracks is another one, Lenovo refuses to treat that as warranty issue :(
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#191 Post by bit_twiddler » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:31 am

Well, we all know that once upon a time, Thinkpads were in their "Golden Age."
But then we went through the "Silver" and "Bronze" ages, and now we're getting
into the "Rusty Leftover Iron" age, and pretty soon we'll be down to cardboard.

I still haven't adjusted to 16:9, are you listening Lenovo?
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#192 Post by Puppy » Thu Aug 18, 2016 2:52 am

The official Lenovo forum is funny. There are many posts about the same palmrest cracks issue reported by customers that Lenovo completely ignores, the only answer is that it is not covered by warranty. I posted a comment that there must be something wrong with their QA process that has been deleted with note "Consider whether your comments serve to advance the discussion in a positive direction." :D
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#193 Post by brchan » Thu Aug 18, 2016 7:46 am

Palmrest cracks seem to be for the P50 only, but they are very large cracks that run from top to down. Plastic is probably too thin.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#194 Post by Ibthink » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:36 pm

brchan wrote:Palmrest cracks seem to be for the P50 only, but they are very large cracks that run from top to down. Plastic is probably too thin.
I wouldn´t agree with that. I think the palmrest may be mounted too tightly with too much pressure on it on affected units. My palmrest is slightly loose and has a little bit of give at the spot where the cracks seem to happen, so likely I am not going to see this issue.

This should be covered under warranty, as it is clearly not induced by the user. In the past in a case such as this one, Lenovo eventually exchanged the defective palmrests, if enough people reported the problem (example T400s/T410s).
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#195 Post by Troels » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:37 pm

Actually, there is 1 or 2 cases with cracks in the P70 too. Plastics are just as thick as on my T60p palmrest, but it is of a different "structure", and definitely does not flex as much. From what I see on the base cover, the plastics seem to originate from Samsung, so the bezel might as well too. My T60p seems to have plastics originating from Mitsubishi. I might be wrong though, so please take this with a grain of salt.

Puppy, yeah I saw your comment before it got deleted :D . I thought that it might have been somewhat out of line, because it could've been understood as an insult on "psuturtle" which is apparently trying to get the slow, old, elephant (Lenovo) to realise they must put out what potentially can become a very large fire on their "burning platform". But I definitely understood you intention.

On the other hand, Lenovo's forum is in my opinion hopeless. It is impossible to criticize, when criticism is due, especially if you are too bold in your language. E.g. there's no way to describe how outrageously bad Lenovo can treat their customers without getting yourself kicked from the board in the end. But I suppose this would apply to any "manufacturer" forum.

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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#196 Post by Puppy » Thu Aug 18, 2016 12:57 pm

Ibthink wrote:This should be covered under warranty, as it is clearly not induced by the user.
Lenovo says the opposite, that's the point of my post.

(link) I called and was basically told that there is NO WAY Lenovo is going to treat this as a warranty issue. They seem to have a policy that all plastic parts can only be broken by the user doing something bad. Lenovo doesn't believe that a plastic part could break after some time due to a bad part or installation.

(link) As suspected, technical support refused to see this as a warranty issue. Their reaction was basically "It's a plastic part, so it's your fault."

And a logical conclusion: (link) Most likely Lenovo will need to redesign the bezel. Otherwise and replacement bezel will suffer the same fate.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#197 Post by Ibthink » Thu Aug 18, 2016 1:27 pm

Of course they are, because its their standard procedure in case of physical damage to the chassis. Its been like this since many years now.

The hotline support is separate from the forum.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#198 Post by Puppy » Thu Aug 18, 2016 6:07 pm

Troels wrote:On the other hand, Lenovo's forum is in my opinion hopeless.
It seems as Lenovo finally noticed the palmrest issue after five months.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#199 Post by lophiomys » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:43 am

Thank you Puppy,

Fun read, in particular Amy_Lenovo's post over at the Lenovo Forums.
That sounds to me, as if especially those rouge customers of P50 and P70 workstations would handle their laptops especially carelessly, because these laptops would be sooooo cheap. That is premium customer service today.
Have a nice day.
Lo PHi

PS:
Since my account at the Lenovo forums is somehow disabled - I have an invalid Lenovo ID ;) -
SCNR to air my opinion here.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#200 Post by Puppy » Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:25 am

ThinkPad P50g ? I found it in this table.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#201 Post by brchan » Tue Aug 30, 2016 7:02 am

The P50g seems to be for asian markets only. The exterior doesn't look any different from a standard P50.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#202 Post by Puppy » Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:40 am

Looks like there is a new revision (?) of the terrible P50 4K panel because it does not look that bad on this video https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... rue#M63157
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#203 Post by Puppy » Tue Oct 11, 2016 2:11 am

P70 4K review http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Thi ... 558.0.html

The display backlight flickers at 219.3 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 99 % and below.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#204 Post by Puppy » Wed Oct 19, 2016 4:47 am

Successful P50 FHD display mod. Thanks to LP156WF6-SPB1 panel from Acer V15 Nitro you can get a decent display. Sad.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#205 Post by Puppy » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:18 am

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... -p/3536547

December 16 it finally arrives with no working usb on motherboard. Contacted tech support and was informed that this is a known issue :roll:
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#206 Post by Troels » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:45 pm

Puppy wrote:https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... -p/3536547

December 16 it finally arrives with no working usb on motherboard. Contacted tech support and was informed that this is a known issue :roll:
Now that's a good one.
Another recent good one is: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... -p/3537320 :lol:
If that's their method/logic of testing things, it's no wonder why the thread with palmrest cracks is literally exploding with problems without any word on a long-term solution yet. I can't help but wonder how many affected units that may be out there sitting with closed lids in docks in offices, just acting as workhorses and otherwise never paid attention to.

I promise you I will post links to that thread on each and every press release for any eventual P51 that may be released. This, the P-series master problems thread and the 4K screen thread. :banana:

Do I sound bitter? I'm not (yet) affected by the palmrest issues in my $3000 P50, so I shouldn't actually care. But Lenovo's behavior with all of the issues really disgusts me.

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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#207 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:33 pm

Troels wrote:If that's their method/logic of testing things
LOL It does not work and we don't know why (because of wrong application-hw selection). Really good one. I am wondering who actually designs these new machines (a 3rd party company ?) since Lenovo is not able to solve almost any issue.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#208 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:58 am

P50 motherboards issue ? https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... -p/3545715

So far two have died in the space of a month. By died I mean dead, will not power on at all, no power lights, Zip. Tried everything and had to get Lenovo out and both times the motherboard has had to be replaced.

Is there a known issue with the P50's? Or have we just been very unlucky that 40% of our P50's lasted less than four weeks?

The result of the stupid EU RoHS ?
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#209 Post by lophiomys » Thu Jan 19, 2017 12:24 pm

Puppy wrote:....
The result of the stupid EU RoHS ?
No. The RoHS soldering is state of the art since years. E.g. RoHS electronic boards in automobiles or in tanks are reliable for years to come.
It most probably a consequence of extra cheap manufacturing.
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Re: Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

#210 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:14 pm

lophiomys wrote:The RoHS soldering is state of the art since years.
That's why there are exceptions for army or medical instruments :) No, I don't buy that. The durability of electronic devices went down since that. The RoHS was pushed by Phillips because they had the factory ready first and wanted to destroy competition by that.
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