Looks like a new W7xx (edit: 17" P70, and P50 replacing W541) is coming out? (small pics)

[Summilux]

The official public communication is "we have not promised anything".

... although, as we all remember, the Classic Thinkpad's iteration process was supposed to be "the most open ever"

Looks horrible but it can be the camera.

Yes, that's most likely coming from the camera. I get the same when I take pictures of my X220's screen.

[Puppy]

After browsing over the "P50/P70 Problems Master Thread" on the Lenovo forum and comparing this to the price tag of the P50/P70, it looks like Lenovo has completely lost their production competence.

Yep, just another example ThinkPad X1 Yoga Touch Screen No Longer Working

I too have this problem where the touchscreen fails. I reinstall the driver and it works for a while then stops again. I cannot believe how expensive this laptop is and the basics like the touchscreen aren't working. ...

There is no QC anymore. It is just prototype sent to production waiting for customers to notice all the issues. I don't have any other explanation for this

[pianowizard]

Actually, for me, 3K is a good thing for 15.6". I like its 211.8 DPI, which is just low enough that I can avoid scaling. Because of this, I am seriously considering getting a Thinkpad, for the first time in 6 years!

I have changed my mind! I am now more interested in 17.3" with 3840x2160 (UHD), which would require scaling at 125% but that's fine. The P70 has a "starting" weight of 7.56 lbs, meaning with a UHD screen it would probably weigh close to 8 lbs. That led me to look around for lighter 17.3" UHD laptops. The Dell Precision 7710 has a virtually identical weight (starting at 7.55 lbs), even though it lacks an optical drive. HP's ZBook 17 G3 starts at 6.62 lbs, nearly a pound lighter than both the P70 and the Dell. That's still fairly heavy though, so I kept looking and came across a gaming laptop, the MSI GS72, which starts at 5.7 lbs. Unfortunately, like most other gaming laptops, this MSI looks quite flashy, and I would rather have something more professional-looking. So, right now the best option seems to be the ZBook 17 G3, although I won't be buying a 17-incher for at least another year, and by then something better will probably have come out. It will replace my HP EliteBook 8740w.

[Troels]

Looks horrible but it can be the camera.

Yes, that's most likely coming from the camera. I get the same when I take pictures of my X220's screen.

If it was from the camera, why is the right part of the screen consistently considerably darker compared to the left part?
It smells more and more like this is what Sharp IGZO screens are supposed to look like.

Sometimes I'm not sure I understand what your agenda is, Puppy. What laptop would you buy if you have to buy a new - real - laptop today?

[Puppy]

Sometimes I'm not sure I understand what your agenda is, Puppy. What laptop would you buy if you have to buy a new - real - laptop today?

Definitely not any .60 T, X or P because all of them are just prototypes. The massive decline of quality control, given the price tag, is alarming. Today I would go for X220 refurb or E460 but I am waiting for ThinkPad 13 reviews and user experience. More expensive models do not make sense because of issues. Again, I still can not believe that ThinkPad brand has fallen down into such miserable state of unreliability and cheap component selection

[Summilux]

If it was from the camera, why is the right part of the screen consistently considerably darker compared to the left part?

That's because the lightning and camera orientation are consistent across the BIOS pictures.

Then again, the spectrophotometer employed in that review does show a slightly weaker right part of the panel... so there could be both factors at play. But IMHO it's much more due to the camera than to inherent screen issues.

[Ibthink]

The P70 has a "starting" weight of 7.56 lbs, meaning with a UHD screen it would probably weigh close to 8 lbs.

Actually, according to PSREF specs, P70 starts at 7.3 lbs, and the 4K model weights just the same. Only the Touch version will weight 8.1 lbs. See: http://psref.lenovo.com/syspool/Sys/PDF ... ations.pdf

Of course, ZBook 17 G3 is still lighter with 6.62 lbs, though HPs data sheet also mentions 3 lbs as starting weight. This may be with a Touchscreen, not sure about that.

[pianowizard]

Of course, ZBook 17 G3 is still lighter with 6.62 lbs

After measuring my biggest laptop carrying case and comparing that to the dimensions of current 17.3" UHD laptops, I now realize that I should be even more concerned about width than weight. All these monstrosities are well over 16 inches wide. I probably should wait until Dell releases an Infinity Edge version of the Precision 7710. A 17.3" 16:9 screen is 15.08 inches wide, so hopefully there will eventually be 17.3" laptops that are narrower than ~15.5 inches.

[Puppy]

A notice for those who hope they get what they have paid for

https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... rue#M59300
Probably won't be a surprise to anybody, but just to close this loop: I heard back from the repair depot a second time: they maintain that the P50 4K screen performs as designed, so they're not touching it. They're sending the machine back to me.

[lophiomys]

That is one way to commit brand suicide

[Troels]

Yeah, I saw that too. Here's a user that got his 4K Sharp panel exchanged - but with no improvement:
https://thinkpad-forum.de/threads/19814 ... ustauschen (in German).


Seeing as I think the competition (HP ZBook G3, Dell Precision 5510/7510) lack in different areas (touchpad/keyboard), I don't think it would help me to return the P50 and buy something else.
My P50 4K was also sent in to be looked at. If they still aren't able to solve the horrendous screen issue (compared to the price of the laptop) then I might just as well exchange the screen with another *known* good screen. There are plenty of options. It seems as if the most important thing is optaining a panel with a non-write protected EEPROM for storing the EDID. EEPROMs are likely integrated inside the display controller SoC, so figuring out pinouts and thus pulling the write-protection pin somewhere is tedious...

[Puppy]

Yeah, I saw that too. Here's a user that got his 4K Sharp panel exchanged - but with no improvement

I am still wondering whether the substantial horrible screen quality of Lenovo premium price laptops is just incompetence of those who selects these screens because they must be almost blind or just strong low cost preference over anything else (including ThinkPad brand damage). We know that better screen exists.

[Radioguy]

It's stunning that one must of speak of screen replacement mods for models currently shipping.

[lophiomys]

That is what happens if you do not smash back bad quality products into the face of the manufacturer right from the beginning.
If the customers do not care and fight for product quality, they simply wont get it.

[micrex22]

We have sent out a P50 w/ the 4K 15" screen option, I didn't see any PWM flicker and it performed without any problems. In fact I thought it was quite a nice display (I was using it at 100% DPI versus 125% and it was sharp enough to be used). The single HDD LED made the whole package kind of sad though... it's like Lenovo is reminding us of the majority of the features they removed, but just for humour they'll add a single discreet LED back.

We'll see if it gets any failures down the line, but I'm hoping it doesn't (the rate of ThinkPad failures, especially with the X1 Carbons has been extremely high). I have a feeling a problem will crop up, but again it *was* working fine before it was sent out.

[Puppy]

Even Acer Predator 17 has a better screen than P70 4K http://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Preda ... 572.0.html

No low PWM frequency in whole brightness range, better AdobeRGB coverage (88% vs 76% only P70) and fantastic minimum brightness 20 cd/m2. Just guess, the screen is $10 more expensive than the flickering Panasonic crap Lenovo sells in a $7000 laptop.

[Summilux]

Even Acer Predator 17 has a better screen than P70 4K (...) Just guess, the screen is $10 more expensive than the flickering Panasonic crap Lenovo sells in a $7000 laptop.

That's what they get for losing their president to us! Their sales should drop anytime now; no one can possibly make money by not selling the cheapest parts at the highest price!

[lophiomys]

[Troels]

Why is it that in 99% of notebooks with top perfomance parts are destroyed by either a horrible name and/or terrible gaming/teen design?

I re-stumpled upon the ZBook G3 review: http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-ZBook-1 ... 600.0.html
$4500 gives you noisy rattling fans, FHD only and flickering along at 200 Hz. Very nice! It seems as if HP has completely lost it.

Oh, and my P50 is still in for service, for more than 20 workdays and counting. Wonder what is going on.

[QWERTY Andreas]

Why is it that in 99% of notebooks with top perfomance parts are destroyed by either a horrible name and/or terrible gaming/teen design?

I re-stumpled upon the ZBook G3 review: http://www.notebookcheck.net/HP-ZBook-1 ... 600.0.html
$4500 gives you noisy rattling fans, FHD only and flickering along at 200 Hz. Very nice! It seems as if HP has completely lost it.

Oh, and my P50 is still in for service, for more than 20 workdays and counting. Wonder what is going on.

I once had a laptop that was in repair for 9 workdays. Called them, and got it back -repaired- after 2 workdays.

You should try calling them

[Puppy]

$4500 gives you noisy rattling fans, FHD only and flickering along at 200 Hz. Very nice! It seems as if HP has completely lost it.

Wait, do they hire the valuable Lenovo president ?

[hhhd1]

$4500 gives you noisy rattling fans, FHD only and flickering along at 200 Hz. Very nice! It seems as if HP has completely lost it.

sounds normal for a sub $500 laptop, ... oh wait ..

[Troels]

I once had a laptop that was in repair for 9 workdays. Called them, and got it back -repaired- after 2 workdays.

You should try calling them

Thanks for the suggestion. Managed to dig out the phone number. They promised to look into the case and contact me later. They did, and the status is that they are awaiting a reply regarding whether or not they will replace it with a new P50.
Let's see where this ends. I don't see how this makes much sense though, considering nothing appears to be wrong with all other hardware.

Wait, do they hire the valuable Lenovo president ?

In all seriousness, it is kind of sad to look at these previously highly regarded companies. Why is it that no-one can manufacture a top-end workstation notebook in a quality similar to a T60/T61 without any obvious faults? Are they just trying to rob people? Is it due to a tight release schedule-versus development requirements? It is almost as if Dell/HP/Lenovo do not compete with each other at all.

[ajkula66]

Are they just trying to rob people?

Yes, at least in my opinion.

It is almost as if Dell/HP/Lenovo do not compete with each other at all.

They're not competing. They don't have to. Everyone's playing the numbers game and cooking the books which is a lot easier than actually making a serious attempt into developing a product that outshines the so-called competition.

[Puppy]

Let's see where this ends. I don't see how this makes much sense though, considering nothing appears to be wrong with all other hardware

That's typical way of a clueless repair. I had issues with WWAN modules (X220 and ThinkPad 8 tablet), both due to crappy driver/firmware. I had to diagnose it myself (there are long threads about that in Lenovo forums). Lenovo solution had always been the same: reinstall OS, get the WWAN module replaced, get system board replaced. None of these "solutions" could actually resolve the issue.

[Puppy]

Why is it that no-one can manufacture a top-end workstation notebook in a quality similar to a T60/T61 without any obvious faults?

There is no demand. Number of returned P50/P70 is too low yet. It is a still mystery to me compared to digital camera market where you can still buy true "pro" tools (well, the price is very high but that's expected).

[Summilux]

Wait, do they hire the valuable Lenovo president ?

He's ours and here to stay! (But a juicy consulting mission for the HP guys surely wasn't out of the question, eh? )

They're not competing. They don't have to. Everyone's playing the numbers game and cooking the books which is a lot easier than actually making a serious attempt into developing a product that outshines the so-called competition.

Which is a pity given that, as we have underlined several times already, all it'd take for either of them to outshine their partners in mediocrity would be to literally copy-paste their early 2000's designs (and manufacturing standards) - and hop, instant jump in value proposition!

But none of them will ever care and the masses will keep enjoying half-baked laptops, just as with many things in this rotten world. All the more reasons to get ahead with a Thinkpad cloning project.

[Troels]

Battle of the 4K panels: Dell XPS15 9550 vs. Lenovo Thinkpad P50
https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-P ... 261#M60555

I'm actually shocked that the difference really is that severe.

Maybe I should just demand my laptop back, smash the screen and replace it with a proper screen and send the shattered pieces back to Lenovo along with the bill for the new screen. That's the gut feeling I'm sitting with right now as Lenovo is still servicing my laptop, it's been two months now.

[RealBlackStuff]

Next time, wait until those new machines have been out for at least 6 months to a year, before you buy.
If you had done that, you could have bought a P50 with a cracked screen (from somebody SO frustrated that they smashed the screen ), and then put in a Dell screen.
OR: you could buy a Dell next time and give Lenovo the boot...

[hhhd1]

.. Lenovo is still servicing my laptop, it's been two months now.

that is crazy ..