Toshiba's PC business strategy for the future and what it means for us

[Summilux]

Here's a heart-warming news for us Thinkpadders:

Toshiba disclosed plans to reorganize its PC business in September, 2014. The company announced intentions to stop selling consumer computers completely and focus on business and corporate PCs instead. Toshiba said that the purpose of the reorganization was to ensure profitability of this business unit and improve competitive positions against companies like Dell, HP or Lenovo on the corporate PC market. Toshiba hopes that the new focus will help it to significantly increase its B2B (business to business) sales already in fiscal 2016 (which begins on April 1, 2016) and become profitable.

Toshiba plans to offer a full range of corporate personal computers, tablets and workstations. In particular, the company will offer higher-performance notebooks under its Tecra brand, ultra-thin laptops will be sold under the Portégé trademark, whereas tablets and 2-in-1s will carry dynaBook and Portégé names.

“Toshiba will concentrate on the B2B PC market globally by developing, manufacturing, and selling its Tecra and Portégé brands to the corporate market,” the company said in its statement.

Source: http://anandtech.com/show/10197/toshiba ... ness-users

Toshiba seems pretty serious and confident about its corporate computers, and that's great. It means that in the medium term, this could:

1) Give us better alternatives for non-Thinkpad laptops
2) Force Lenovo to re-evaluate it quality control
3) Force Lenovo to reconsider the Classic Thinkpad project and take it seriously

... although only the first eventuality seems realistic one to me. But whichever externality materialises, we'll have something to gain.

I think we should even tip Toshiba about our grieves and ideas for a successful business machine. No doubt Toshiba did a market research, but they may not be aware of the true extent of issues/proposed alternatives/people holding out for their next purchase.

I'll also quote:

Due to tough competition, it is not easy to sell consumer PCs nowadays. Products families have to be broad, profit margins are razor thin and suppliers have to focus primarily on sales scale and volume. While Toshiba is known for affordable systems in the U.S., that business was not profitable for the company. This was was one of the reasons why Toshiba decided to cease selling its consumer PCs outside of Japan.

Thin margins. Going upscale. That's exactly what we said would be reasons for putting a Classic TP on the market. One brand gets it, and it's not Lenovo.

(Note to mods: I feel this is an appropriate category to discuss this news, but feel free to displace the thread to "Off-Topic Stuff" if you think otherwise)

[Puppy]

2) Force Lenovo to re-evaluate it quality control
3) Force Lenovo to reconsider the Classic Thinkpad project and take it seriously

I don't think it can happen. Lenovo has gone too far with no quality control of recent (post .30 series) ThinkPad brand devices. Most of companies have moved to HP or Dell over here, I haven't seen single .40 or .50 ThinkPad in any company. Lenovo can generate revenue by selling high volumes of cheap consumer laptops and mobile phone crap. Now they are trying the same cheapening tricks with ThinkPad products but (fortunately) it does not work well.

It would make sense if Toshiba acquired the ThinkPad products from Lenovo. Under Lenovo umbrella it is over

As for Toshiba business laptops, I tried several of them in showroom and the keyboard feel was abysmal.

[brchan]

In the US, I still see many companies using post T430 generation thinkpads, despite the problems they have. They are mostly T440s or T440P models. However, for workstations I usually see HP or dell precisions. I agree Lenovo's QA seems to be worse, especially with the current new line of laptops.

[Cigarguy]

More competition is always good.

[Hierax_ca]

Toshiba has made some absolutely excellent laptops in the past -- in the 90s many of them were rivals to or better than the Thinkpads!

If the Retro-Thinkpad of futureyear isn't up to snuff, it might then be time to check out Toshiba again...

[ajkula66]

1) Give us better alternatives for non-Thinkpad laptops

Unlikely unless they (Toshiba) go right back to their roots from 90s...

2) Force Lenovo to re-evaluate it quality control
3) Force Lenovo to reconsider the Classic Thinkpad project and take it seriously

I'd bet on a snowball surviving in hell first...

[brchan]

Our family had 2 toshiba machines. One was a portege from the late 90s with PII processor and ran XP. Very thin, and solid build. The other was a Satellite (from 2002?)with P4 and 512mb ram, also running XP. Chunky, but had a nice vinyl or leatherette cover on a portion of the lid and was a brick. Unfortunately I can't remember the names of them, but they both stopped working after 6-7 years and I believe we threw them out. The portege developed a power jack issue and the other one overheated and had ram problems. Although the build quality was generally nice, they weren't very reliable.

In contrast to all the thinkpads I have come across, the only thing that needed replacing was the fan in my T43. There was also a T41 and T61p that died (both from the infamous gpu defects).

[RealBlackStuff]

I've had my hands on a few Toshiba machines, that all needed repairs.
Every single one of them had broken parts in their cheap plastic bases (usually the DC socket) and several also had a broken screen in their cheap plastic lids.
At least Toshiba remains mostly faithful and consistent to its shortened name: Tosh.
The best thing that can happen to it: toss the Tosh in the trash.

[bit_twiddler]

I recently had to upgrade from my W510 for a project. I looked at the following review, among others:

http://www.notebookcheck.net/Review-Tos ... 573.0.html

It seems like they have some good ideas, but need more customer feedback before they
can compete in the portable workstation market. The small space bar is particularly puzzling.
It shows that there is a learning curve for any design team. I've heard that they have a good
trackpoint. At least they put 3 real trackpoint buttons in the machine.

In the end, I just picked up a W520. Perhaps we'll see better products from Toshiba in the future;
some of the pieces are there, but there are some serious omissions.

[Summilux]

So it's a mixed bag as I understand it from your feedbacks. Well, at least will is there; so maybe Toshiba will get to rework its basics in the reorganisation process, including quality assurance, and offer more compelling offers than Lenovo's.

They can be worse than Lenovo at this point, so maybe it's right to place a bit of hope in them.

I wish we had some contact working at Toshiba... I'm thinking of shooting an e-mail to the company to give them our opinion, but chances are that it won't be passed to the right person - or rather, won't be passed at all.

[farmall77]

Can't imagine what Tosheba could do to get better beside scrapping everything and starting over from scratch.

Absolute garbage from what I have seen. (Former owner)

[micrex22]

Toshiba seems pretty serious and confident about its corporate computers, and that's great. It means that in the medium term, this could:

1) Give us better alternatives for non-Thinkpad laptops
2) Force Lenovo to re-evaluate it quality control
3) Force Lenovo to reconsider the Classic Thinkpad project and take it seriously

Except... this is what they have and always will offer:
http://www.laptopmag.com/images/uploads ... 40-g15.jpg

Only two buttons for their trackpoint clone *hurk*, I need my middle scroll button. Chiclet keys. Junk 6-row keyboard. And all of the legends ARE IN CAPS LOCK FOR SOME REASON. It makes the keyboard look visually intrusive. Whereas something like the Lenovo X250 actually has a functional TrackPoint that was a pleasure to use and very well calibrated (ignoring everything else wrong with it).

Toshiba would have to redesign their entire design standard before it could be a ThinkPad replacement (unless you don't use the TrackPoint in which there are *plenty* of other options). Heck, there are offerings from Dell and HP that have three-button trackpoint clones which far surpass Toshibas.

[Summilux]

I need my middle scroll button.

Hear, hear. I wouldn't want a trackpoint without the middle button either.

Chiclet keys. Junk 6-row keyboard. And all of the legends ARE IN CAPS LOCK FOR SOME REASON. It makes the keyboard look visually intrusive. Whereas something like the Lenovo X250 actually has a functional TrackPoint that was a pleasure to use and very well calibrated (ignoring everything else wrong with it).

Toshiba would have to redesign their entire design standard before it could be a ThinkPad replacement (unless you don't use the TrackPoint in which there are *plenty* of other options). Heck, there are offerings from Dell and HP that have three-button trackpoint clones which far surpass Toshibas.

I agree, Toshiba's current line-up is a far cry from our standards. But you know what? At this point I'd prefer to buy a Toshiba rather than a Lenovo. Even if it doesn't have the middle scroll. Because at some point you need to have minimal self-respect and stop supporting those who've abused your computing experience; your mindset may vary.

And I'm candidly thinking, facingToshiba's typing horror: "at least they haven't ditched the trackpoint, which isn't even part of their brand legacy". So I still want to think positively of the brand - because of this, and because they have the presence of mind, when face with harsh market conditions, to go upscale instead of diluting their whole line-up. I support the smart, not the mongs. (I apologise in advance for my politically incorrect terminology.)

[exTPfan]

There was an article in this morning's NY Times about HP's plans. It was all about making PCs "cool" by making them (even) thinner and shinier (silver and gold). Nothing about making them useable. We are doomed.

[Puppy]

Nothing about making them useable. We are doomed.

Have anyone seen a (long) video how people actually use these new shiny dummy computers ?

[Summilux]

There was an article in this morning's NY Times about HP's plans. It was all about making PCs "cool" by making them (even) thinner and shinier (silver and gold). Nothing about making them useable. We are doomed.

Yep, I was about to post that: http://anandtech.com/show/10224/hp-unve ... est-laptop



Yet...

The notebook is also equipped with a keyboard that has 1.3 mm travel as well as a trackpad with full-travel etched glass. HP compares it Spectre to Apple’s MacBook and claims that the keyboard, as well as the touchpad of the MacBook, are less comfortable to use than those on the HP machine, something that needs to be verified by independent reviews.

Eh.



Still, it does look good. Even with that crippled upgradeability, and for lack of a Classic Thinkpad, I'd be tempted if only it had a classic TP keyboard.

[bit_twiddler]

Have anyone seen a (long) video how people actually use these new shiny dummy computers ?

They are "cool" people, they don't actually have to "use" anything.

Fortunately, everything I do is limited by CPU or RAM, not graphics, meaning that
I could, conceivably, get an Intel 5x5 or mini-itx mobo-based machine and just log into it
via ssh.

Don't know what you windows and graphics guys are going to do, though...

[theterminator93]

I deployed a handful of Tecra W50s for a client late last year. I have no idea who decided on that model but they didn't involve me in the decision making process; why they bought workstation class machines for report-typers and web-based form inputters I'll never know. They boast decent hardware specs and a serial port (mini-db9 with adapter cable) but the first things that stood out at me were that the connection of the a/c adapter felt weak at the unit and the keyboard was just terrible. Like typing on a sheet of paper.

The touchpad and trackpoint were also pretty bad. Every person who was issued one of these uses a mouse; I can't blame them there. I also thought the texture of the palmrest was weird.

[brchan]

As much as I dislike Lenovo's current offerings, I still can't imagine using any of Toshiba's models. The thinkpad keyboards may have decreased in quality, but they are still far better than the competitors'.

[kony]

I'm sure as hell I'll never buy a Toshiba laptop again.

[aptivaboy]

Most of companies have moved to HP or Dell over here, I haven't seen single .40 or .50 ThinkPad in any company.

Its the same at the school district where I teach. Back in the day we were an Apple school, but now totally Dell. Dell got the contract in the very late '90s through some, um, questionable dealings. Having said that, the hardware they've sold us has been pretty solid, if workmanlike and boring. The network seems to be running okay, and the district has been happy enough to not go elsewhere once the issues over the original questionable bidding issues died down. There was a time when Thinkpads, Sonys and Toshibas were fairly regularly seen, either as district bought small samples or as teacher bought machines. Now, its all Dell.

There was a time when Toshiba really was tops. Now? The Toshiba laptop my Mom bought at the PX at Camp Pendleton has been nothing but trouble, with certain keys not working almost out of the box. Toshiba customer support was nearly nonexistent. Lenovo isn't much better based upon my students' experiences with inexpensive Best Buy Lenovo "specials."

All I can say is that I'm still praying for a "proper" retro Thinkpad. For me, the keyboard is the deciding factor. Let's hope.

[KentT]

Toshiba for me, is not true business class yet. Not rugged enough (I kill newer Porteges and Tecras too easily), and no next business day service on location. Be forewarned, I get better service and support out of HP ProBooks and Lenovo E series, small business line machines and the Dell Latitude E 3000 line, and those are only semi-business.

[Troels]

I still see Toshiba's PC business strategy as having lots of good intentions, but the quality of their laptops have been extremely poor for a long time. I don't see how they have survived for this long, and I honestly won't miss them if they leave.
For example, I just found this test today: http://www.notebookcheck.com/Test-Toshi ... 174.0.html
A screen with 50 Hz PWM below 90% brightness and the most horrendous viewing angles ever seen does not make sense in a €1000/$1200 laptop. Why would anyone consider buying this?

[Puppy]

A screen with 50 Hz PWM below 90% brightness and the most horrendous viewing angles ever seen does not make sense in a €1000/$1200 laptop.

WOW, such crap. 50 Hz is like old CRT monitor or TV set.

[Puppy]

Their business strategy was probably wrong

Chaos at Toshiba: $6.3 billion write-down, chairman resigns, bankruptcy looms
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/ch ... story.html

[TonyJZX]

Cant say I missed them at all. Worked at a few Toshiba shops and they were expensive to maintain and what parts were available were expensive.

I think the big 3 will still dominate and they will fill out there niche. I guess by now many western nations do not do Lenovo for govt/military and that HP have that market sewn up... still the big Fortune 500s should keep them in business.

[Saucey]

Guess Toshiba's PC business can't help their investments in nuclear...
Sucks it had to go this way, they were the pioneers in early laptop technology.
Hopefully their PC sector can separate from the big parent company.

[axur-delmeria]

Encountered a 15.4" widescreen Toshiba laptop a while back that wouldn't install Win 7 (installer throws an error that I can't remember anymore), but Vista installed without a hitch. It seems there was a BIOS issue that Toshiba didn't bother to fix with an update.