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Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

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fb1996
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#31 Post by fb1996 » Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:10 am

crystal castle wrote:I'm hearing that the TB3 ports on the newly announced 2017 ThinkPad models cannot support eGPU. Is that right?
As far as I know, nobody tried that yet. Thus, that's just a vague guess.
Puppy wrote:Any news about P series ?
The new P series models will be announced in February.
Puppy wrote:Is Lenovo still so arrogant to continue use these terrible second hand 4K screens ?
Honestly, I don't know. I wish they found a different supplier.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#32 Post by hhhd1 » Sun Jan 01, 2017 2:42 pm

Puppy wrote:Lenovo Crappy Screen (tm) again. I also expect PWM frequency 200 Hz in whole brightness settings range. Or even 50 Hz like many IdeaPads gets ? Oh yes, optimized for comfortable long time usage :(
50 Hz sounds terrible, Is there any links for those 50 Hz IdeaPads ?
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#33 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 02, 2017 4:52 am

hhhd1 wrote:50 Hz sounds terrible, Is there any links for those 50 Hz IdeaPads ?
Lenovo IdeaPad 510-15ISK Notebook Review
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Ide ... 300.0.html

The display backlight flickers at 50 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 90 % and below.

Lenovo IdeaPad 310-15ISK Notebook Review
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Ide ... 924.0.html

The display backlight flickers at 50 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 80 % and below.

Lenovo Ideapad Y700 15ISK 80NW Notebook Review
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Ide ... 878.0.html

The display backlight flickers at 58.14 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) .

Lenovo IdeaPad 510S-14ISK (80TK003KGE) Notebook Review
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Ide ... 710.0.html

The display backlight flickers at 50 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 60 % and below.

Lenovo IdeaPad 500-15ISK Notebook Review
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Ide ... 579.0.html

The display backlight flickers at 50 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 90 % and below

And so on. The issue is almost exclusive to Lenovo laptops.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#34 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jan 02, 2017 6:59 am

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#35 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 02, 2017 9:41 am

Ibthink wrote:Its not even close to being "exclusively":
This is not correct. Some of models listed use the low PWM frequency for very low brightness level (under 10% or so) only.

Yes, you can find few examples in any brand but not all top models like in case of Lenovo. Again, all Lenovo FHD+ resolution (and some FHD as well) 2016 models have the issue, typically for brightness level from 95% to zero (the whole range). This is terrible and the worst result among other vendors.

Since we know it is a software issue (BIOS or drivers because the frequency can be controlled by several PWM tools for Intel GPU) all of this is Lenovo ignorance only.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#36 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:00 am

Again, its not proven this is a software issue. LG screens do not show PWM, Panasonic screens do. If this were a software issue, both would have PWM on the same Notebook. So stop with the generalization. Its not "all FHD+ res models" and you know that.

If you want to point out an issue, its important to be specific about it and stick to the facts.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#37 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 02, 2017 10:10 am

Ibthink wrote:Again, its not proven this is a software issue. LG screens do not show PWM, Panasonic screens do. If this were a software issue, both would have PWM on the same Notebook. So stop with the generalization. Its not "all FHD+ res models" and you know that.
Well, it is definitely over 50% of top models which is still a lot, the exact list is here. There is also no way to select particular screen vendor so the worst value per laptop model counts only.

It is not that easy. The default frequency value can be result of many factors we don't know, an information from particular panel is apparently one of them. Sorry, you are following the rotten Lenovo attitude of hidding issues instead of solving them. There are proven tools to fix the wrong default low frequency value on any display driven by Intel GPU, if I were Lenovo I would start to investigate the issue in general.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#38 Post by lophiomys » Mon Jan 02, 2017 2:04 pm

Re PMW flicker and from a customer's perspective:

If there is even the slightest risk that I would get some PMW flicker in a premium Thinkpad, I am directly excluding it from the list of candidates!

Same applies for the overall quality:
read BIOS bugs, production faults, bad screens, etc.
... Sorry, I am not up to date with the current failure list any more.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#39 Post by Puppy » Tue Jan 03, 2017 3:19 am

Lenovo announces three new ThinkPad X1 models with Kaby Lake
https://www.thinkscopes.com/2017/01/03/ ... kaby-lake/

... and the screen still flickers at 220 Hz I suppose.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#40 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Jan 03, 2017 11:20 am

Apparently Dell XPS 13 also had flicker problems.
http://en.community.dell.com/support-fo ... t/19660953
Their problem was solved after simply changing a wifi-driver setting!

How hard could it be for Lenovo to fix this? Maybe it's the same problem as with Dell? A cheap wifi card and/or poor driver?
Instead of wasting money on the likes of Motorola, they should have bought a decent LCD-factory, perhaps out from under FRUIT's nose?

Or we could perhaps send a delegation to HP and Dell to have them change their keyboards and trackpoints?

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#41 Post by Summilux » Tue Jan 03, 2017 12:20 pm

RealBlackStuff wrote:Or we could perhaps send a delegation to HP and Dell to have them change their keyboards and trackpoints?
I'd love it :wink: At least for HP ; let's see how Dell handle their coil whine issue first...
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#42 Post by creshal » Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:27 pm

HP can't even count to three (mouse buttons), I wouldn't hold my breath.

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#43 Post by Summilux » Sun Jan 08, 2017 4:16 am

Then let's ask Quanta for a quote :(
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#44 Post by Puppy » Sun Jan 22, 2017 4:28 am

Confirmed: Lenovo ThinkPad T470, T470s will have Thunderbolt 3, but T470p will not
http://www.notebookcheck.net/Confirmed- ... 244.0.html

Lenovo THINK division's comment on the omission of Thunderbolt 3 is below:

"With regards to your question, the T470 and T470s are part of our global workhorse program with a guaranteed extended lifecycle to support enterprise customer deployments. The T470p is not part of this program and as such, we did not include Thunderbolt into this product. For customers who require a high-performance notebook with Thunderbolt, we would highly recommend our P series workstation models."


Corporate speak :) Translates to: We want to sell you overpriced, full of issues and second hand display equipped P model instead.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#45 Post by dr_st » Sun Jan 22, 2017 9:23 am

Either that or they ran into some engineering issues they couldn't reasonably resolve.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#46 Post by Summilux » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:40 pm

I was confused for a few minutes.

Why would they tell people that the p doesn't have TB, so they should get a p instead ? What kind of nonsense is that ?

Then I remembered that For Those Who Don't actually launched a P series to expand their range of ill-conceived laptops :roll:
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#47 Post by Ibthink » Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:48 pm

The P-Series is not so much an expansion of the lineup as it is the replacement of the W-Series, to bring it more in line with the P-Series Desktop-Workstations.

Which is kind of important, since the P50 and P70 are now separate from the T-Series in terms of design. The old W-Series always used the same chassis as the T-Series (except the W700/W701, of course). This opens up the possibility for a separate development of the P-Series, which is why it has a Touchpad with dedicated buttons for example, or dedicated volume keys.

I think the new P-Series with Kaby Lake will be announced in early February.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#48 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:58 am

Ibthink wrote:I think the new P-Series with Kaby Lake will be announced in early February.
Wondering whether Lenovo still have courage to offer these terrible second hand displays but tend to think so :(
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#49 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:17 am

The funny thing is, these are not second hand screens, this is the quality that Sharp delivers. This screen is also used by Acer in the Nitro series, my farther has the 15" Nitro with the 4K screen, its the same as in the P50 and it has the same weakness.

As far as I know, screens in general were on short-supply last year: https://www.dvhardware.net/article65214.html I wonder if this changes in 2017. Anyway, the last P50 BIOS update included "new Display panel", so I wonder if there is a different 4K display now.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#50 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:58 am

Ibthink wrote:This screen is also used by Acer in the Nitro series
No, there is different one:

Lenovo ThinkPad P50 Workstation (Xeon, 4K) Review
LQ156D1JW05
Average: 249.7 cd/m²
Contrast: 806:1
The display backlight flickers at 217 Hz
98.6% sRGB (Argyll) 85% AdobeRGB 1998 (Argyll)
Viewing angles pictures

Acer Aspire V15 Nitro BE VN7-592G-79DV Notebook Review
LQ156D1JW02D
Average: 291 cd/m²
Contrast: 1377:1
The display backlight flickers at 1000 Hz (Likely utilizing PWM) Flickering detected at a brightness setting of 10 % and below.
100% sRGB (Argyll) 86% AdobeRGB 1998 (Argyll)
Viewing angles pictures

As you can see, the P50 4K screen is worse in all parameters including the darkening from side views. Acer can get better screen for lower price ?

Both P50 FHD and 4K screens are terrible, that's why there are FHD scereen mods using the Acer V15 Nitro one.
Last edited by Puppy on Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#51 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:21 am

Well, I have seen the Acer Nitro V15 4K screen, it showed exactly the same characteristics as the P50 4K screen with the darkening. So maybe Acer uses multiple screens.

P50 flickers at a brightness of 8/15 or lower, not 100 %, not sure why that is missing there.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#52 Post by Puppy » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:28 am

Ibthink wrote:P50 flickers at a brightness of 8/15 or lower, not 100 %, not sure why that is missing there.
Still not good enough, Acer can deliver it right. Lenovo is aware of the issue and do nothing.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#53 Post by Puppy » Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:17 am

Ibthink wrote:So maybe Acer uses multiple screens.
Can you get the exact panel type by HWInfo or similar tool ? It would be interesting to know it.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#54 Post by Ibthink » Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:25 pm

I will try, though it could take a few months/weeks, as its not mine.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#55 Post by Puppy » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:13 pm

P51/P51s/P71 http://www.mobiletechreview.com/ubbthre ... mber=49783

Wondering whether still the same crappy 4K screen is there.

BTW the "P51" is funny for me. It used to be mechanical telephone switching system used after second world war till 1990 over here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pq0hzOQZmw :)
Last edited by Puppy on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#56 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:21 pm

"The ThinkPad P51s: The laptop features a new chassis that's half a pound lighter than the last gen model,"
So P51s is no longer renamed W550s.
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#57 Post by ciuvak » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:28 pm

TPFanatic wrote:"The ThinkPad P51s: The laptop features a new chassis that's half a pound lighter than the last gen model,"
So P51s is no longer renamed W550s.
No, after the T570 HMM became available, it was very clear that P51s will be using the same chassis as T570.
T570 & P51s HMM: https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/p ... j65584.pdf
T570 & P51s User Guide: https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/p ... _ug_en.pdf

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#58 Post by Puppy » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:36 pm

ciuvak wrote:No, after the T570 HMM became available
Is there part list available ?
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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#59 Post by ciuvak » Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:39 pm

Puppy wrote:
ciuvak wrote:No, after the T570 HMM became available
Is there part list available ?
no yet.

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Re: Lenovo announces ThinkPad T470 and other 2017 models

#60 Post by TPFanatic » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:52 pm

ciuvak wrote:
TPFanatic wrote:"The ThinkPad P51s: The laptop features a new chassis that's half a pound lighter than the last gen model,"
So P51s is no longer renamed W550s.
No, after the T570 HMM became available, it was very clear that P51s will be using the same chassis as T570.
T570 & P51s HMM: https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/p ... j65584.pdf
T570 & P51s User Guide: https://download.lenovo.com/ibmdl/pub/p ... _ug_en.pdf
Exactly, so it's no longer renamed W550s/T550/T560. They should call it T570p except Lenovo wants us to think it's something special when it isn't!!
lenovo T420 i5 2520m 16GB QHD w/ eGPU GTX 960
lenovos T520 i7 2720qm 8GB FHD, T420s i5 3320m 8GB QHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD w/ Optimus, S1 Yoga i7 4600u 8GB FHD
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