Decision: T60p UXGA vs. X61s

[BigCatAndy]

Hello,

I use since years TP T60p (15 Inch, 1600x1200 Display). I have 3 GB of RAM, SSD hard drive and also 2nd drive Caddy (instead of DVD-DOM). CPU is Intel T2700 with 2,33GHz. I'm generally satisfied, only 2 issues bother me - the Display is quite dark (comparing to the newer Systems) and sometimes I have Problems with booting the laptop. If it runs some time, then I cannot simply restart it (neither under Windows nor under Linux) - it remians hanging. So, I have to wait and then start again. After several attempts it starts.

Some time ago I got used X61s with Ultrabase. The only Thing which does not work is battery. The rest is fine - 400 GB of HDD, 3 GB of RAM. I installed Linux Mint - it simply "flies" there.

Now I'm thinking about giving up the T60p and switching to X61s. I have also external Monitor from LENOVO (so, I can have more space than just 12,1 Inch) and also external mouse and Keyboard. But on the other side I cannot just give up this amount of Display I have in T60p.

Can anyone give me a hint? How do they compare? Performance? Stability?

Thanks in advance,
Andrey

[dr_st]

If you use the machines docked, with external peripherals most of the time, then issues like mobility, size, weight, battery life, internal display quality may be irrelevant. With that said:

• X61 can only output to a single external display, VGA only; T60p allows you to have two external displays (DVI+VGA)
• Your T60p is the fastest first generation Core Duo CPU. The X61s CPU is two generations newer, but probably lower clock speed, so performance should be comparable; The T60p CPU is 32-bit only, but the 3GB limit makes 64-bit OS not very useful on this generation anyways.
• X61s supports 8GB RAM (natively) and SATA2 for the internal drive (if Middleton BIOS is installed)
• T60p has ExpressCard (PCI-Express) whereas X61s has CardBus (PCI) only; in practice it means that you will not be able to expand X61s with ExpressCard-to-USB3.0 adapters.

These are some off the top of my head.

[RealBlackStuff]

After a few small chassis-modifications put a 14.1" 4:3 T61 motherboard (Intel or nVidia NVS140M) in the T60p and convert it into a true FrankenPad with Middleton's BIOS.
Up to 8GB RAM, SATA-II speed, 64-bit OS, Penryn CPU options T8100/T8300/T9300/T9500/X9000, etc.

[wujstefan]

After a few small chassis-modifications put a 14.1" 4:3 T61 motherboard (Intel or nVidia NVS140M) in the T60p and convert it into a true FrankenPad with Middleton's BIOS.
Up to 8GB RAM, SATA-II speed, 64-bit OS, Penryn CPU options T8100/T8300/T9300/T9500/X9000, etc.

Plus try a LED-mod of either mounting stock-Led hydis panel (better panel, more expensive), or get a led kit from xiphmont. This will make your panel super-bright.

If you are planning to use the dedicated graphics, nvs140m is somewhat on par with v5200m. X3100 from intel-based T61 is running cool and reliable. Some may say that nvs140m is prone to failures, but the truth is that so is ATI-based chip in your system. I've seen many of those units suffer from graphics ram failure. X3100 boards are cheap.

If you want to go fancy and oldschool you can also get a R61i 4:3 - it is pretty cheap and sports everything you need; plus has the option of non-touchpad palmrest and is scratch - resistant. You can move the display from yours T60p to R61i easily. Not much effort, much of effect.

[BigCatAndy]

Thanks for your opinion. I really tend to keep my T60p. I have X200s for mobile use, so T60p stays most of the time on my desk.

After a few small chassis-modifications put a 14.1" 4:3 T61 motherboard (Intel or nVidia NVS140M) in the T60p and convert it into a true FrankenPad with Middleton's BIOS.
Up to 8GB RAM, SATA-II speed, 64-bit OS, Penryn CPU options T8100/T8300/T9300/T9500/X9000, etc.

Why should I modify T60p and build "Frankenpad" instead of buying real T61 or T61p?

Thanks,
Andrey

[BigCatAndy]

If you want to go fancy and oldschool you can also get a R61i 4:3 - it is pretty cheap and sports everything you need; plus has the option of non-touchpad palmrest and is scratch - resistant. You can move the display from yours T60p to R61i easily. Not much effort, much of effect.

Hello, you mean, I could buy R61i and place my UXGA-display in it?

Cheers,
Andrey

[BigCatAndy]

If you want to go fancy and oldschool you can also get a R61i 4:3 - it is pretty cheap and sports everything you need; plus has the option of non-touchpad palmrest and is scratch - resistant. You can move the display from yours T60p to R61i easily. Not much effort, much of effect.

I found at eBay R61i of type 8943-DKG. Looks like it would match... But I thought, R-series had bad reputation. It was not so high-class as T-series was. Am I wrong here?

Thanks in advance,
Andrey

[madicetea]

The R-series is an option. Just have to remember that its unique feature was being made of cheaper plastic, so it would be less durable if it were to have a higher fall from a desk (for example).

[wujstefan]

I found at eBay R61i of type 8943-DKG. Looks like it would match... But I thought, R-series had bad reputation. It was not so high-class as T-series was. Am I wrong here?

R61i is performance-wise the same as T61, and is sturdier, harder and heavier than both T61 and T60. They were sold as budget because of being bulkyier, heavier and worse equipped. UXGA is a 1:1 replacement in this one, so is the battery. As for the rep - you may ask around here on the forum. I'm using mine everyday because I like its quality better than T601 I own, but it's a personal preference. I like it for being sturdy, scratch-resistant and able t have no-touchpad palmrest. R61i 4:3 is very rare in the US, and starts being rare in Europe.

No, you are right. I've had R61, T61, and X61 all at the same time at one point and I couldn't stand how slow the R61 would run, even when I changed out the socketed CPU.

Which pile of trash did you get yours R61 then? These are all the same, no difference in here performance-wise. X61 should be the slowest one in here due to T9300 being the fastest CPU possible. Middletoning needs a different approach. And this is it as we speak of performance difference. The only thing is the lack of dedicated graphics option in R-series. You can, however, cram a T500/R500 motherboard into R6x chassis.
Ah, out of this era only R61 was able to run blu-ray drive.

EDIT:
This is mine, pre-modded.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2p58 ... 2lVbTlJWmM

[madicetea]

I found at eBay R61i of type 8943-DKG. Looks like it would match... But I thought, R-series had bad reputation. It was not so high-class as T-series was. Am I wrong here?

R61i is performance-wise the same as T61, and is sturdier, harder and heavier than both T61 and T60. They were sold as budget because of being bulkyier, heavier and worse equipped. UXGA is a 1:1 replacement in this one, so is the battery. As for the rep - you may ask around here on the forum. I'm using mine everyday because I like its quality better than T601 I own, but it's a personal preference. I like it for being sturdy, scratch-resistant and able t have no-touchpad palmrest. R61i 4:3 is very rare in the US, and starts being rare in Europe.

No, you are right. I've had R61, T61, and X61 all at the same time at one point and I couldn't stand how slow the R61 would run, even when I changed out the socketed CPU.

Which pile of trash did you get yours R61 then? These are all the same, no difference in here performance-wise. X61 should be the slowest one in here due to T9300 being the fastest CPU possible. Middletoning needs a different approach. And this is it as we speak of performance difference. The only thing is the lack of dedicated graphics option in R-series. You can, however, cram a T500/R500 motherboard into R6x chassis.
Ah, out of this era only R61 was able to run blu-ray drive.

EDIT:
This is mine, pre-modded.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2p58 ... 2lVbTlJWmM

Well you are right that the R61 was a trashy beat-up plastic thing that I admittedly got for real cheap in Akihabara. It's one of three computers I've successfully lowered the price of in an in-person negotiation and the only one that was less than 20usd, so I'm not complaining about that.

And yeah R61 still makes a decent Windows 7 media machine. How I used mine until I sold it bundled with Microsoft Office at almost 10x what I bought it for.

Yeah, I heard about the motherboard transplant thing, but I've only tried it with an X61 so far (had to keep my Chinese permission to broadcast wifi sticker so it could still be used in China haha).

[dr_st]

Why should I modify T60p and build "Frankenpad" instead of buying real T61 or T61p?

Because a Frankenpad allows you to keep your 15" 4:3 IPS screen, which you could never get in actual T61/p units. Plus you get to keep a good-looking machine (T60) rather than one that looks like its chassis was designed by a drunk and blindfolded chimp. I'm not kidding. People actually built seemingly-useless 14" Frankenpads, just so they could get the symmetric screen bezel.

Hello, you mean, I could buy R61i and place my UXGA-display in it?

Yep, a 15" 4:3 R61 allows you to get the same effect with a much smaller effort (screen swap is easier than mobo swap and chassis modification), and you still get a good-looking machine since those computers are based on the previous design of the 15" R60 shell.

R-series had bad reputation. It was not so high-class as T-series was. Am I wrong here?

Well, as you were already told - it is considered less high-end because of cheaper materials which translate into bigger bulk and higher weight. I don't think it is any less durable, though, and the plastic lid covers have the advantage that they don't look and feel like complete crap after the rubber paint coating wears off, like happens to the "higher-end" T/X series.

Edit: Well, dang! I talked it up so much that now I want an R61 15" 4:3 with UXGA IPS.

[wujstefan]

Edit: Well, dang! I talked it up so much that now I want an R61 15" 4:3 with UXGA IPS.

After using my Elitebook 8770w for couple of months I decided to roll back to this engineering marvel Add in that LED Hydis AFFS screens are available again and, and for very reasonable price.

Anyway, to get back to the OP topic: if R61 is available to you, get it, swap the panel, sell the rest of your T60p - that would be mine recommendation. Or get it LED-modded as described on TheBoardRoom. Hydis AFFS are glorious panels. I could stare at them whole day. These has become cheap nowadays.

X3100 is significantly less powerful than v5200, but having your system on dock why not use 2503 dock and put a GPU card in it?

[TPFanatic]

People actually built seemingly-useless 14" Frankenpads, just so they could get the symmetric screen bezel.

Exactly! It's easier to get the 4:3 T61 and replace the top with a 14" T60 lid. Then you keep the T61's improved ventilation.

[BigCatAndy]

Hello everyone,

I think, I mad emy decision. I will definitelly keep T60p (although X61s is technically more modern). Also the switch to R61i wirh 4:3-display I will keep as an option. One can find some R61i on eBay in Germany.

But I have a huge problem - time. I cannot afford large "rebuilding" project of my laptop, just because it will last ever. What I decided - I will try to upgrade CPU to T7600 and to renew the cooler - sometimes it's too loud. I'm ready to tolerate the limit of 3 GB - at the present I have the maximum and it's OK for me.

Perhaps, for some of you it's not the best option, but I see it pragmatically - I will save time for migrating HDD, mounting the display, etc. My laptop will stay available all the time, and if everything goes correctly, I get faster and more silent laptop.

Now I need to find one T7600 CPU

Regards,
Andrey

[BigCatAndy]

I found one R61i of type 8943-DKG. At the present start price 50€ + price offers accepted. No HDD, no power supply. Just wondering, what it could cost now... 20€? 25€?

[dr_st]

What I decided - I will try to upgrade CPU to T7600 and to renew the cooler - sometimes it's too loud.

A T2700->T7600 upgrade is hardly worth the cost. You will probably feel nothing (unless you really must have 64-bit). Although the CPUs are not as pricey as they used to be, they still command some premium for being the fastest CPUs available for this platform. I would find it hard to justify on a laptop that by your testimony has intermittent problems starting up, and may die any moment.

[BigCatAndy]

A T2700->T7600 upgrade is hardly worth the cost. You will probably feel nothing (unless you really must have 64-bit). Although the CPUs are not as pricey as they used to be, they still command some premium for being the fastest CPUs available for this platform. I would find it hard to justify on a laptop that by your testimony has intermittent problems starting up, and may die any moment.

I didn't expect that it would give minimal performance growth. Under this circumstances you are right. The CPU itself will definitelly cost some money, plus time to change - and then no performannce gain.. It's a kind of disappointing

OK, looks like switch to R61i would be the most pragmatic way to go. Or spend some more money an buy T500/T510 with 1920 x 1080.

Cheers,
A.

[Thinkpad4by3]

OK, looks like switch to R61i would be the most pragmatic way to go. Or spend some more money an buy T500/T510 with 1920 x 1080.

Cheers,
A.

T500 came with a 16:10 display or 1920x1200.
T510/20/20 came with a 16:9 display or 1920x1080.

[BigCatAndy]

T500 came with a 16:10 display or 1920x1200.
T510/20/20 came with a 16:9 display or 1920x1080.

I know. I meant the highest possible resolution. I understand that in the case I loose classical UXGA display.

Regards,
Andrey

[wujstefan]

I know. I meant the highest possible resolution. I understand that in the case I loose classical UXGA display.
Regards,
Andrey

It is possible (and not very complicated) to cram T500 motherboard into R61 4:3 chassis, thus getting a 4:3 thinkpad. Thisis time consuming however.

Take a shot and get the R61i. You found it really cheap, and the difference between T7600 and T9300 is reasonable. Plus, 8 gigs of DDR-2 is available on this system. Upgrading this one is the likes of 1hr of labour (RAM, CPU, SSD, display). They hit the 100Euros barrier easily and are getting more and more expensive. 50Euros for a decently shaped unit is the price I'd like to pay.

[BigCatAndy]

Take a shot and get the R61i. You found it really cheap, and the difference between T7600 and T9300 is reasonable. Plus, 8 gigs of DDR-2 is available on this system. Upgrading this one is the likes of 1hr of labour (RAM, CPU, SSD, display). They hit the 100Euros barrier easily and are getting more and more expensive. 50Euros for a decently shaped unit is the price I'd like to pay.

The one I found has T5250, it is "only" 1,5 GHz... You convinced me, I made a price offer to the seller. Just waiting for his/her response.

But then another question to all gurus here: I have read that moving UXGA display into R61i would also mean exchange of the inverter, because original XGA inverter of R61i would not manage UXGA resolution. Is it correct?

Thanks in advance,
Andrey

[wujstefan]

The one I found has T5250, it is "only" 1,5 GHz... You convinced me, I made a price offer to the seller. Just waiting for his/her response.

T8300 costs around 7Euros in EU
EDIT: middleton the board prior to CPU swap. There was no 4:3 unit that was native penryn-enabled.

But then another question to all gurus here: I have read that moving UXGA display into R61i would also mean exchange of the inverter, because original XGA inverter of R61i would not manage UXGA resolution. Is it correct?

In each and every R61i I've modded it worked witout any inverter switch, incl. LED Hydis screens, SXGA+, UXGA from both Boe-Hydis and ID-Tech, and Sharp panels.

[BigCatAndy]

T8300 costs around 7Euros in EU
EDIT: middleton the board prior to CPU swap. There was no 4:3 unit that was native penryn-enabled.
In each and every R61i I've modded it worked witout any inverter switch, incl. LED Hydis screens, SXGA+, UXGA from both Boe-Hydis and ID-Tech, and Sharp panels.

Thanks for the hints.
I bought that part I mentioned earlier for 40€ incl. shipping. Perhaps, I really should start with modifing BIOS - in this way I open all possible features. And if I break it, then it's just 40€

Regards,
Andrey

[BigCatAndy]

Just a question: why R61i and not R61 in gerenal? I observe now another R61 (completely equipped), with faster CPU (T7500, 2 GhZ). Would it match also? Actually, the same type (8943), but another letters at the end.

[dr_st]

Just a question: why R61i and not R61 in gerenal? I observe now another R61 (completely equipped), with faster CPU (T7500, 2 GhZ). Would it match also? Actually, the same type (8943), but another letters at the end.

It doesn't matter. As long as it's the 15" 4:3 (894x-xxx) type.

Where do you find all these 15" 4:3 R61's?

[wujstefan]

Just a question: why R61i and not R61 in gerenal?

No difference. It's just more common on European marke

Where do you find all these 15" 4:3 R61's?

These were pretty popular in EU, and are still available here; I guess German ebay or some loca aucton services. If need one give me a hint and I can hunt one for you - I do ship packages to the US time to time, and R61 are pretty common among the parcels It is not a problem to get a R61 here. It is a problem to get a decently shaped one

[BigCatAndy]

It doesn't matter. As long as it's the 15" 4:3 (894x-xxx) type.

Where do you find all these 15" 4:3 R61's?

German ebay + local offers/announcements. One can find R61/R61i relatively easy. Ok, the price can be unreal, but it's a problem of the sellers.

I have one question: there is a German WiKi for Thinkpads, and they write, that R61i did not have Bluetooth (only one type had Bluetooth). Can anyone confirm it? The one I bought actually had a Bluetooth LED on the front panel. As far as I know, Lenovo does nothing just for fun. So,I suppose, there is a Bluetooth unit if the indicator is there.

I think now about my spontaneous upgrade project "Merge T60p with R61i or R61". I know what I win - faster CPU, real 64 bit platform. But what will I loose? I know about the GPU (although I think, I will still perform my daily tasks with Intel GMA X3100 easily). What about my second HDD caddy in the DVD slot? Can I use it further? And can I use the DVD in the external USB box, where currently the DVD drive of T60p seats? Can I use my battery from T60p? Can I use my docking station (it is 2504, I suppose). My Bluetooth mouse?

Sorry, that I put so many questions. I always used only T-series, so I'm akind of "newbie" for R-series, and I don't know what it can, and what it cannot.
Cheers,
Andrey

[wujstefan]

I have one question: there is a German WiKi for Thinkpads, and they write, that R61i did not have Bluetooth (only one type had Bluetooth). Can anyone confirm it? The one I bought actually had a Bluetooth LED on the front panel. As far as I know, Lenovo does nothing just for fun. So,I suppose, there is a Bluetooth unit if the indicator is there.

There are no bad questions really

R61 4:3 all have bluetooth as far as I recall. At least I cannot recall seeing 4:3 LCD tape without bluetooth

What you loose with R61i vs T60p:
- graphics performance
- sleek design (for some, i.e. me this is not an issue at all)
And what you get:
- CPU performance
- 8Gb RAM capability
- better build (subjective)
- no-touchpad option
- reliability
- lower heat
- better battery life
- SATA-2 support
- BLU-RAY availability via ultrabay

Ultrabay in R61 is different type but compatible. All ultrabay devices ftom T6x wil work in R61.

What about my second HDD caddy in the DVD slot? Can I use it further?

Yes

And can I use the DVD in the external USB box, where currently the DVD drive of T60p seats?

Yes

Can I use my battery from T60p?

Yes

Can I use my docking station (it is 2504, I suppose).

Yes

My Bluetooth mouse?

Yes

[dr_st]

German ebay + local offers/announcements. One can find R61/R61i relatively easy. Ok, the price can be unreal, but it's a problem of the sellers

I see plenty of R61's on ebay.de right now, but not a single of them is the 4:3 type... Maybe not all results are shown to searches from outside the EU? Or maybe I'm just dumb. Go figure. I imagine local sellers would indeed have many more.

These were pretty popular in EU, and are still available here; I guess German ebay or some loca aucton services. If need one give me a hint and I can hunt one for you

Not right now, but maybe in the future. It would be an easier decision to make if the T60 hasn't been going strong. I do like "special" machines, so I might jump on the R61 15" Frankenpad. It's way more special than the "T601" Frankenpads.

[RealBlackStuff]

The 15" 4:3 R61 was only available with Intel graphics.
That's where 15" 4:3 T601 can shine.