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Lenovo CES 2019

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dr_st
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#61 Post by dr_st » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:45 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 3:50 pm
I'm sorry but I don't happen to have a microscope to read text documents on my phone. I was happy with a 480p display on my phone.
That's ridiculous; are you just making an argument for the sake of an argument, or have you never actually used a phone? Surely it is known that phone operating systems (unlike Windows) don't render anything based on number of pixels, but only on physical dimensions. Thus, on a high-res phone, all elements will be exactly the same size, just sharper.

But, hey, your argument "read text documents" barely even holds in the desktop world either, considering that every single PDF viewer and every single document editor (like Word) render text in a resolution-independent way, and that every browser and almost every respectable pure text editor have built-in scaling features to increase text size to anything you want.

Really the only thing that falls behind in Windows at least is rendering of UI elements and OS menus/utilities.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#62 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:39 pm

dr_st wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:45 am
That's ridiculous; are you just making an argument for the sake of an argument, or have you never actually used a phone? Surely it is known that phone operating systems (unlike Windows) don't render anything based on number of pixels, but only on physical dimensions. Thus, on a high-res phone, all elements will be exactly the same size, just sharper.

But, hey, your argument "read text documents" barely even holds in the desktop world either, considering that every single PDF viewer and every single document editor (like Word) render text in a resolution-independent way, and that every browser and almost every respectable pure text editor have built-in scaling features to increase text size to anything you want.

Really the only thing that falls behind in Windows at least is rendering of UI elements and OS menus/utilities.
I'm not saying that you'd really read it at 6pt font. I know that it's all scaled and the sharpness is the only difference. The problem is on a mobile device like a phone...the only trade-off of a 4K display over a 480p is just battery life. More pixels...more GPU utilization....less battery life...and a higher price. I barely see a difference....and on that, I can't justify the point in having a higher resolution display I can't utilize, and in most cases just cusses more problems than it solves.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#63 Post by dr_st » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:52 pm

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:39 pm
the only trade-off of a 4K display over a 480p is just battery life. More pixels...more GPU utilization....less battery life...and a higher price. I barely see a difference....and on that, I can't justify the point in having a higher resolution display I can't utilize, and in most cases just cusses more problems than it solves.
Yes, I can agree with the general statement, but cannot agree that 480p is a good spot for mobile phones, having seen how much nicer (and easier to read) text looks on iPhone 5 and newer phones compared to the old iPhone 3GS... There are many resolutions between 480p and 2160p, you know.

If anything, on small screens, I'd say that high resolution is even more important (counter-intuitive as it may sound). That's because the eye can distinguish very small elements easier when they are very sharp. When the elements are bigger (like on a typical laptop/desktop LCD), less sharpness is required.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#64 Post by amardeep » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:40 pm

Funny range, isn't it, if the leaked specs are to be believed ? Could do with some pruning.

MBP 13  304 x 212 x 15 mm  /  16GB max  /  16:10 screen
XPS 13  302 x 199 x 12 mm  /  16GB max

T490    329 x 227 x 19 mm  /  48GB max  /  lr-bezel  8mm
T490s   329 x 226 x 17 mm  /  32GB max  /  lr-bezel  9mm
X1C G7  323 x 217 x 15 mm  /  32GB max  /  lr-bezel  7mm
X390    312 x 217 x 17 mm  /  16GB max  /  lr-bezel  8mm

The T490s in particular looks like it's now trying to fill a non-existent gap. I guess price is another factor that should be in the list. Left-right bezels are all about the same. Don't know about top-bottom but the overall dimensions give a clue.

Would have been nice if the X390 was about 210 mm rather than 217 mm in its second dimension, and even then that's not particularly tight packaging compared to contemporary rivals. Would have been nicer if it could be stuffed with 32GB RAM. Nicer still if it had a RAM slot. Nicer-er if it had a T25-keyboard variant ! OK, the last two requests are seemingly way off into fantasy land these days.

Why do Lenovo package so conservatively ? Is it durability ? But the X1C seems to get away with reasonably tight packaging.

Nothing fun like a 3:2 screen, or that T25 keyboard. RAM slot disappeared from the T490s. Did I read that matte screens are on their way out (bit of a shame, but at least actual screen quality is better these days than the mediocre stuff from a few years ago) ? Will the batteries be user-serviceable at least (i.e. unscrew bottom to replace) ?
Last edited by amardeep on Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#65 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:25 pm

dr_st wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:52 pm
Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:39 pm
the only trade-off of a 4K display over a 480p is just battery life. More pixels...more GPU utilization....less battery life...and a higher price. I barely see a difference....and on that, I can't justify the point in having a higher resolution display I can't utilize, and in most cases just cusses more problems than it solves.
Yes, I can agree with the general statement, but cannot agree that 480p is a good spot for mobile phones, having seen how much nicer (and easier to read) text looks on iPhone 5 and newer phones compared to the old iPhone 3GS... There are many resolutions between 480p and 2160p, you know.

If anything, on small screens, I'd say that high resolution is even more important (counter-intuitive as it may sound). That's because the eye can distinguish very small elements easier when they are very sharp. When the elements are bigger (like on a typical laptop/desktop LCD), less sharpness is required.
I've had phones from 480p to 1080p on a 4.7-5.0" display and I really haven't come into a situation where it really mattered too much for the lower res. 480p still clocks in at over 200dpi, so it's not like 480p a huge deal like it is on say a 10" for 15" display.

And I can say for sure my 480p and 720p phone DID last longer despite having a smaller battery.
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#66 Post by amardeep » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:16 pm

X390, X390 Yoga, T490, T490s, T590 have been announced. See notebookcheck.net (X390 / X390 Yoga and T490 / T490s / T590) or the Lenovo website. news.lenovo.com has data sheets.

The X390 has up to 32GB RAM (!). It also has the usual Lenovo attention to detail on its website with enter and right-hand shift keys reversed in their keyboard picture (shift above enter, i.e. one row up compared to left-hand shift key), and some fairly creative copy on the website, "The X390 was designed to handle the hectic demands of your job, no matter where those demands take it. Tested against 12 military-grade requirements and more than 200 quality checks, and containing soldered-down memory, it’s built to withstand extreme conditions. Back at the office, use the ThinkPad Pro Dock (sold separately), a USB-C side mechanical docking station that easily connects to and levels your laptop." Anyway, could be a decent laptop.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#67 Post by pianowizard » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:16 am

Thinkpad4by3 wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:25 pm
I've had phones from 480p to 1080p on a 4.7-5.0" display and I really haven't come into a situation where it really mattered too much for the lower res. 480p still clocks in at over 200dpi, so it's not like 480p a huge deal like it is on say a 10" for 15" display.
You probably use only apps that display huge giant text, and view mobile web sites rather than desktop (sometimes called "classic") web sites. On my phones I read PDF files of scientific papers and view most web sites as desktop sites, so the ability to discern fine details is crucial. My Samsung Mega's 6.3" 720x1280 screen (233.1 DPI) is really insufficient for these tasks. My other two current phones do a much better job: Lenovo Phab 2 Pro (6.4" 1440x2560 @ 458.9 DPI) and Samsung Tab S2 (8.0" 1536x2048 @ 320.0 DPI).
dr_st wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:52 pm
If anything, on small screens, I'd say that high resolution is even more important (counter-intuitive as it may sound). That's because the eye can distinguish very small elements easier when they are very sharp. When the elements are bigger (like on a typical laptop/desktop LCD), less sharpness is required.
Exactly. I have had smartphones for almost 12 years, ranging from 2.25" 320x320 (Palm Centro) to 8.4" 1600x2560 (Samsung Tab S). When the screen is small I tend to look at it from a shorter distance, and a consequence is that I can resolve individual pixels more easily than when I view an 8.0" screen. I bet I am not the only person with this habit. Small screens need to help overcome this user habit by having higher pixel densities than larger screens. We view desktop monitors at much greater distances, so pixel densities can be far lower, e.g. 100 DPI. Laptop screens are somewhere in between smartphone screens and desktop monitors. I certainly find 1080p too low for 13" and larger laptops.
Last edited by pianowizard on Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#68 Post by Puppy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:10 pm

pianowizard wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:16 am
I certainly find 1080p too low for 13" and larger laptops.
Yes, especially after playing with Dell XPS 13 4K :-)
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#69 Post by ZaZ » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:46 pm

While I can use a 14" 1080 screen at native resolution for a while, fatigue sets in pretty quick. I like the 17" FHD screen I had, but 6.5 pounds is too heavy for a portable notebook in 2019. I'm hoping FHD on a 15" strikes a nice balance.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#70 Post by dr_st » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:54 pm

ZaZ wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:46 pm
While I can use a 14" 1080 screen at native resolution for a while, fatigue sets in pretty quick.
Is this at 100% or 125% scaling?
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#71 Post by ZaZ » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:30 pm

That was at native resolution. Eventually, I bumped it up to 125 scaling to make it easier on the eyes, but that kind of made it like 1600x900 screen.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#72 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:08 pm

ZaZ wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:30 pm
That was at native resolution. Eventually, I bumped it up to 125 scaling to make it easier on the eyes, but that kind of made it like 1600x900 screen.
I don't personally mind 1080p at 14" but thats as far as I'll go before hardware scaling. I have 12" 1080p and it was pretty straining on the eyes...so I bumped it to 125%.

But I also have 12" 768p which I find fine along with 900p 15.6".
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#73 Post by madicetea » Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:39 pm

I think T490 Healthcare Edition looks cool. How many hospitals do you think will buy into them?

ref. https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press ... kflows.htm
Last edited by madicetea on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#74 Post by dr_st » Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:07 am

ZaZ wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:30 pm
That was at native resolution. Eventually, I bumped it up to 125 scaling to make it easier on the eyes, but that kind of made it like 1600x900 screen.
But sharper. :) I am comfortable with 100% scaling at 14" FHD; would be more comfortable with 125%, but keep it at 100% to avoid blurriness issues when going between different external screen setups.
madicetea wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 6:39 pm
Sirs, can we please talk about something that isn't a page about screen size and resolution in the CES 2019 post?
Sure. Let's talk about the fact that all the laptops Lenovo releases should just be dumped from the conveyor belt straight into the dumpster, because none of them have the 7-row keyboard, which makes them all crap by definition. :mrgreen:
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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#75 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:14 am

dr_st wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:07 am
But sharper. :) I am comfortable with 100% scaling at 14" FHD; would be more comfortable with 125%, but keep it at 100% to avoid blurriness issues when going between different external screen setups.

Sure. Let's talk about the fact that all the laptops Lenovo releases should just be dumped from the conveyor belt straight into the dumpster, because none of them have the 7-row keyboard, which makes them all crap by definition. :mrgreen:
Both of these points...exactly! :mrgreen:
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2019

#76 Post by ZaZ » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:10 pm

dr_st wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 3:07 am
I am comfortable with 100% scaling at 14" FHD; would be more comfortable with 125%, but keep it at 100% to avoid blurriness issues when going between different external screen setups.
The only computer I have with more than one screen is my desktop, which has two identical LCDs.
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