Take a look at our
ThinkPads.com HOME PAGE
For those who might want to contribute to the blog, start here: Editors Alley Topic
Then contact Bill with a Private Message

Lenovo CES 2020

General Questions, Rumors, Real news & More
Message
Author
amardeep
Sophomore Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:15 pm
Location: Winchester, United Kingdom

Lenovo CES 2020

#1 Post by amardeep » Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm

Another year, another CES thread (following the Lenovo CES 2019 and Lenovo CES 2018 threads). What major excitements await us ? The name change to T14, X13 etc, and ... well not sure much else of note is going to happen apart from the usual minor feature / component bumps ?

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#2 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 am

amardeep wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm
What major excitements await us ?
The fading light of the do-it-all business laptop
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16750
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#3 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:28 am

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:49 am
amardeep wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm
What major excitements await us ?
The fading light of the do-it-all business laptop
Yep.

A decade ago anyone who would've suggested removing the RJ45 (LAN) port from a business laptop would've been laughed out of the room, at the very least. Nowadays it's the new norm... :roll:

And that's just scratching the top of the proverbial iceberg...
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#4 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:09 am

ajkula66 wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 6:28 am
A decade ago anyone who would've suggested removing the RJ45 (LAN) port from a business laptop would've been laughed out of the room
And there is no substitute. Wi-Fi is crap unless you live on a desert island with no other router 10 km away. But in typical residential area when you can see 100 networks it is pretty useless. Similar to no expansion RAM slot; 16 GB RAM model is typically much more expensive than the base 8 GB RAM + 8 GB upgrade, because there is no web configurator in second-class countries like this one. To get the 16 GB RAM configuration you have to pick i7 with overpriced big capacity SSD.

USB-C is a disaster when it comes to reliability, there are numerous reports of mechanically broken USB-C ports in a short period of time. And the repair cost is very high as you have to replace the system board.

No wonder I've returned to desktop PC + cheap laptop combo.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

Thinkpad4by3
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2655
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:25 am
Location: N. Bellmore, ny

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#5 Post by Thinkpad4by3 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:29 am

I don't even get why they don't make one model based off the modular model of laptops. Like if a company brought out a small phone...there is just nothin' else like it and for that segment it could be the only thing you can buy. I feel like it really wouldn't be such a loss if they made something...I don't know LIKE ANOTHER T25!!
Thinkpad4by3's Law of the Universe.

The efficiency of two screens equally sized with equal numbers if pixels are equal. The time spent by a 4:3 user complaining about 16:9 is proportional to the inefficiency working with a 16:9 display, therefore the amount of useful work extracted is equal.

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#6 Post by Ibthink » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:42 am

amardeep wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 1:02 pm
Another year, another CES thread (following the Lenovo CES 2019 and Lenovo CES 2018 threads). What major excitements await us ? The name change to T14, X13 etc, and ... well not sure much else of note is going to happen apart from the usual minor feature / component bumps ?
Yeah, mostly I think that it will be a small update this year. The P, X and T series designs are still pretty fresh, so I would not expect Lenovo to release yet another redesign just yet.

The most interesting question will be: Is there going to be an Ice-Lake powered ThinkPad? Most mainstream models will probably adopt Comet Lake, which is a small update (besides the hexa-core option). Also, what happens to the ThinkPad X1 Tablet? It is still stuck with Kaby Lake Refresh. So there are still a few areas where not everything is known.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8223
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#7 Post by dr_st » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:25 am

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:09 am
Wi-Fi is crap unless you live on a desert island with no other router 10 km away. But in typical residential area when you can see 100 networks it is pretty useless.
You know, I kinda don't think you are correct about how it works...
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#8 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm

dr_st wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:25 am
You know, I kinda don't think you are correct about how it works...
Wi-Fi b/g has three separate channels only, n has eight. If you can see almost 100 networks nearby, all of them have to share it. The "old" gigabit LAN has always full 1 Gbps speed and less than 1ms latency 24 hours a day. Anything that isn't equal or better than this is crap.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16750
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#9 Post by ajkula66 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:36 pm

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm
If you can see almost 100 networks nearby
Then you are in a pretty congested area, and even AC or the new AX might not be able to save you. In this type of environment, wired LAN is a must.
The "old" gigabit LAN has always full 1 Gbps speed and less than 1ms latency 24 hours a day. Anything that isn't equal or better than this is crap.
Not all wired connections are created equal either BUT presuming that one is sitting on a high-speed FTTH/FTTP circuit I would agree.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF, X60T

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8223
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#10 Post by dr_st » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:23 pm

Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm
Wi-Fi b/g has three separate channels only, n has eight. If you can see almost 100 networks nearby, all of them have to share it.
Yes, but throughput doesn't drop proportional to the number of networks on the same channel. There is some interferences for sure, but the formula is more complicated than that. Weak networks on the same channel probably have very marginal effect, even if you can 'see' them. I tried to find some actual benchmarks that show exactly how speed is affected by a 'busy' medium, but couldn't so far.
Puppy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:31 pm
The "old" gigabit LAN has always full 1 Gbps speed and less than 1ms latency 24 hours a day. Anything that isn't equal or better than this is crap.
Well, you are welcome to drag your gigabit router and broadband line with you everywhere you go. Good luck.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#11 Post by Puppy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 5:31 pm

dr_st wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:23 pm
Well, you are welcome to drag your gigabit router and broadband line with you everywhere you go. Good luck.
Typical scenario is that I have more computers connected to local network so it isn't about the broadband speed only. Every additional 10 ms of latency or frequent dropouts are noticeable and annoying on remote desktop connection experience or dropping connection speed when copying large 50+ GB files. And this is where the Wi-Fi fails miserably. The throughput isn't proportional, especially with MIMO routers, but the result is still terribly [censored] network compared to simple GigaLAN cable :) Broadband connection is ~300 Mbps and ~7ms latency so the Wi-Fi would make it worse again. I would expect new technologies to be an improvement over the old ones.

There is still opportunity for a decent docking solution (USB-C only these days), but I haven't asked for a too slim laptop that can't accomodate LAN connector without providing a better alternative.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8223
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#12 Post by dr_st » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:10 pm

Pretty sure you can get good USB-to-Gigabit adapters, and the USB-C flavors will become more widespread as the USB-A connector is phased out.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#13 Post by Ibthink » Wed Dec 04, 2019 5:20 am

dr_st wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:10 pm
Pretty sure you can get good USB-to-Gigabit adapters, and the USB-C flavors will become more widespread as the USB-A connector is phased out.
Also, all current ThinkPads still contain a Gigabit Ethernet chip and have a native Ethernet output, even if they don't have the full-size RJ45 port. So it doesn't even have to be a USB C adapter in this case. This dongle provides the native Ethernet output.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

amardeep
Sophomore Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:15 pm
Location: Winchester, United Kingdom

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#14 Post by amardeep » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:21 pm

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Reimagine ... 261.0.html

Dell : XPS 13" goes 13.4" 16:10 screen, even smaller bezels, edge-to-edge keyboard with 1mm travel, Intel Ice Lake, up to 32GB RAM (soldered), replaceable SSD.
Me : ducks for cover, this thread is gonna get ugly !

Some pictures including new and old XPS 13".

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8223
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#15 Post by dr_st » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:56 pm

amardeep wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:21 pm
Dell : XPS 13" goes 13.4" 16:10 screen, even smaller bezels, edge-to-edge keyboard with 1mm travel, Intel Ice Lake, up to 32GB RAM (soldered), replaceable SSD.
Pretty awesome, except keyboard is sh!te, sh!te, sh!te. Like on every laptop out there. Apparently most people don't use a keyboard for anything other than one-finger typing in their Facebook messenger.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#16 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:31 pm

dr_st wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:56 pm
Pretty awesome, except keyboard is sh!te, sh!te, sh!te. Like on every laptop out there.
Yes, including ThinkPads. There is no way to get proper laptop keyboard anymore.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

amardeep
Sophomore Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:15 pm
Location: Winchester, United Kingdom

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#17 Post by amardeep » Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:39 pm

Imagine a Thinkpad X13 with that screen and bezels, an edge-to-edge keyboard, trackpoint, in traditional Thinkpad black and design. Throw in the seven row keyboard and my order's definitely in. I say this every year though, and I know the probability is zero !

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#18 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:48 pm

amardeep wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 3:39 pm
I say this every year though, and I know the probability is zero !
Of course. But there are other aspects. Those thin models like T490 have crappy trackpoint, short key travel and bad cooling.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#19 Post by Ibthink » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:07 pm

Puppy wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:48 pm
Those thin models like T490 have crappy trackpoint, short key travel and bad cooling.
I think your Matebook 13 has much shorter key travel (just 1 mm vs. 1.7 mm on the T490) and its CPU performance is also worse than the T490. And it does not have a TrackPoint at all.

But I guess a nice aspect ratio and navigation keys via FN on the arrow keys make all those things irrelevant. :wink:
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

bgx
Sophomore Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 am
Location: rennes, france

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#20 Post by bgx » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:51 pm

with dell going 16:10 and lenovo itself, there is more chance to have thinkpad move to 16:10 as well. what are the chance of that happening in the 2020 lineup, at least for some models?

Not like we told them to do so 4 years ago for the 25th year aniversary thinkpad (90% of votes were more squarish than 16:9).

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#21 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:58 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:07 pm
I think your Matebook 13 has much shorter key travel (just 1 mm vs. 1.7 mm on the T490)
It is 1.2 mm but it doesn't matter. Anything worse than X220 or older keyboard is sh!it anyway. CPU performance is actually very good for a Core i5 ultrabook and it has much better display provided by a single vendor than any ThinkPad gets, even in double price range. Yes, clustered navigation keys is another pro compared to the completely broken 6-row ThinkPad layout designed by idiots.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 815
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#22 Post by Ibthink » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:21 pm

bgx wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 5:51 pm
with dell going 16:10 and lenovo itself, there is more chance to have thinkpad move to 16:10 as well. what are the chance of that happening in the 2020 lineup, at least for some models?
I agree that chances are higher now than a few years ago, but at least for this year, I strongly doubt anything will materialize.

- Lenovo redesigned almost all models last year, which means that another redesign this year is unlikely

- 16:10 still appears to be of limited availability, not only in terms of size (no 14 inch and 15 inch), but also in terms of resolution & special features (like the Privacy screen that some ThinkPads have now). Available 16:9 supply is a major advantage for manufacturers.

- There is no indication that the competing business lines of Dell / HP are moving to a different aspect ratio. Recent high-end additions like the HP Elite Butterfly or the Dell Latitude 9510 announced today still use 16:9.

If Lenovo would move something to 16:10 (or 3:2 even), I think the most likely models are probably X1 Carbon & X1 Yoga. These are most likely to compete with something like the Dell XPS 13 and moving to a different aspect ratio would differentiate them from the less expensive models.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#23 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:49 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:21 pm
- There is no indication that the competing business lines of Dell / HP are moving to a different aspect ratio.
Because these dinosaurs (including Lenovo) aren't able to change themselves. That's why "obscure" PC laptop brands like Microsoft, Huawei or even Chuwi (with all the limitations and quality compromises) are more attractive now for non-corporate customers. The old quality/ergonomy/serviceability we had known from the IBM and early Lenovo era has gone anyway. Brands like Acer or MSI provides the same, if not better, quality these days for a better price. Again, if you don't need a portable machine, returning back to desktop PC is the best option you can pick now :(
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#24 Post by Puppy » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:03 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:21 pm
but also in terms of resolution & special features
Yes, no way to get a $30 cheap 55% sRGB low-res 16:10 display and use it in a $2000 laptop :D Until then, Lenovo is not interested.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

amardeep
Sophomore Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:15 pm
Location: Winchester, United Kingdom

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#25 Post by amardeep » Fri Jan 03, 2020 1:05 pm

X1C G8 at notebookcheck and anandtech. Not sure much significant has changed apart from CPU refresh (not sure, notebookcheck says CPUs are new, anandtech says they're the same generation as before). They moved the X1 logo on the lid so it looks a bit neater.

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2789
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#26 Post by Puppy » Fri Jan 03, 2020 6:42 pm

And still no good display options for the X1C8. The WQHD is the low-contrast one and the 4K wide-gamut one has no sRGB emulation (unlike HP or Dell) so it is useless in most of applications.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

bgx
Sophomore Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 am
Location: rennes, france

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#27 Post by bgx » Mon Jan 06, 2020 2:33 am

And Acer goes 3:2 on its highest end Spin 5.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/Acer-Spin ... 311.0.html

amardeep
Sophomore Member
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:15 pm
Location: Winchester, United Kingdom

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#28 Post by amardeep » Mon Jan 06, 2020 3:35 pm

No new Thinkpads apart from X1 Carbon and Yoga, and the Fold ? https://www.lenovo.com/gb/en/events/ces ... ts#laptops No T14 or X13 ? Or will they appear at some later Lenovo event at CES ?

bgx
Sophomore Member
Posts: 161
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 am
Location: rennes, france

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#29 Post by bgx » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:46 pm

CES starts tommorow, right?

usually, X1/yoga are annonced first, and T4/X3xx a bit later. I assume nothing different this year.

Still hoping for some 16:10 surprise in X13/yoga department, since the panel exist in 13"....

sebileis
Freshman Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:08 pm
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Contact:

Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#30 Post by sebileis » Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:27 pm

amardeep wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:21 pm
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Reimagine ... 261.0.html

Dell : XPS 13" goes 13.4" 16:10 screen, even smaller bezels, edge-to-edge keyboard with 1mm travel, Intel Ice Lake, up to 32GB RAM (soldered), replaceable SSD.
Me : ducks for cover, this thread is gonna get ugly !

Some pictures including new and old XPS 13".
What is everyone's obsession with increasingly thin bezels?? What happens if you drop your laptop and there's no buffer zone between the impact and the screen?
W540+T450 TP i7-4800MQ K1100M 16 GB RAM 240GB SSD
FrankenPad T601 UXGA LED AFFS X9000 8 GB RAM 240GB SSD
Dell Vostro 470 GTX 1080 i7 3770 16 GB RAM 2x250GB SSD+2x2TB HDD
MacBook A1181 T8300 4 GB RAM 160GB HDD

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “GENERAL ThinkPad News/Comments & Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests