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Lenovo CES 2020

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amardeep
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#31 Post by amardeep » Sun Feb 02, 2020 7:27 am

sebileis wrote:
Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:27 pm
amardeep wrote:
Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:21 pm
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Reimagine ... 261.0.html

Dell : XPS 13" goes 13.4" 16:10 screen, even smaller bezels, edge-to-edge keyboard with 1mm travel, Intel Ice Lake, up to 32GB RAM (soldered), replaceable SSD.
Me : ducks for cover, this thread is gonna get ugly !

Some pictures including new and old XPS 13".
What is everyone's obsession with increasingly thin bezels?? What happens if you drop your laptop and there's no buffer zone between the impact and the screen?
I like to have the smallest package built around a particular screen size, as that gives better portability, and ok, I admit, looks cool too. I am happy to give a little bit of space back for a degree of ruggedness. I'm not obsessed with having pretty-much no bezel, though if possible without much compromise, of course the smaller the better. By the way, is bezel size is going to help much against a drop ? Maybe a little, but I'm not sure it's going to do a lot, and I'm not in the habit of dripping laptops (so far !). In particular, the bezels below the screens are currently pretty big. Thinkpads do have to have space for buttons above the trackpad, which the XPS does not bother with, but I still think the dimensions could be tightened up a fair bit, and it would work out even better with a 16:10 screen.

If we look at something like the Thinkpad X60s (link to image at notebookcheck.net), that strikes me as something in the right ballpark, and useful as inspiration for a new design. As a side note, I guess the clamshell type design would have helped stiffen the screen as well on these generation of Thinkpads, but that aspect is long gone now. Funnily enough, I'm not obsessed on laptops being ridiculously thin, obviously thinner is better all other things being equal, but I'll happily trade a few mm's for the 7-row keyboard with some reasonable amount of travel, and replaceable RAM and SSD. So, a slightly fatter X1C or tightened-up X390, with a 16:10 screen, the T25 7-row keyboard, and, if at all possible, a RAM slot or two please. This is just my vision of the ideal, YMMV.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#32 Post by bgx » Thu Feb 06, 2020 10:27 am

I quite agree with amardeep.

having super thin bezel/computer should not be the metric you look for.

e.g. when the camera has to be placed in the keyboard with a weird angel, or when the computer is made so thin that the keyboard has not enough depth or the battery is made weaker.

That being said, why have so much plastic around the bezel? I think most thinkpad could accomodate a 16:10 screen without changing anything and with 0 compromise. I prefer to have pixel than useless plastic bezel!

To compare the X1yoga4 vs the X1yoga1, some + and some - point in that respect:
+thiner bezel with no impact on anything. Of course, i would have prefered a 16:10 screen, but I really didnt get the massive bezel of the X1y1 (all the more after coming from a X40 and a X60S which had tiny bezels more than 10 years earlier). In that respect, the X1Y4 makes me feel closer to a x60s than the X1Y1, because of its smaller bezel and a bit more massive feel (because the LxW are smaller I guess even though the height is also slighly smaller). Step in the right direction.

- that being said, i think they did too much compromise on the height (trakpoint even more shallow - luckily i found a 3Dprinted cattongue one which makes everything much nicer), the trackpoint button have 0 height, which is the most annoying problem I feel. And the keyboard is even more shallow than before.

I can live with all these small problems, but i would prefer a *slightly* thicker computer with bigger battery, less shallow trackpoint/buttons and keyboard travel).

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#33 Post by amardeep » Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:01 am

What's an X12 ? Well, obviously it would be a 12" X-series machine, but I haven't heard anything about this one. This page mentions it, https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/commercial ... pad/c/22TP along with X13, T14, T15. Then again this page also has a category for "Wine - Do Not Use" whatever that could be ! Could just be a dumping ground for bits of web-site experimentation, but it's all a bit weird.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#34 Post by RealBlackStuff » Sat Feb 15, 2020 4:15 am

That webpage is an utter mess, mentioning all the oldtimers including 590, 600 and Transnote, all leading you to a page with a wavy picture and nothing else, just advertising for Office 2019.
I'm slowly getting fed-up with Lenovo, reading all those negative comments in the last few years, due to lack of QC, untested items brought out, poorly made hardware, etc.

It's really time they get their act together, because if they continue like this, they will be worse than Acer in a few years from now.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (the Real Black Stuff). And pigs CAN fly!
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#35 Post by WarhawkCZ » Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:13 am

I also want to comment on a few things here. It's gonna be more thinking aloud.
  • I've been shopping for a new laptop past few years and can't find anything that fits my budget and brings me joy. Also, I plan to use the unit for 5 years. I simply don't like this consumerism when people change their gear every second year. My main driver is t430 with the FHD, quad-core and the keyboard mod. What a machine. Just two days ago, I booted t42p and the 4:3 aspect ratio is just brilliant. Booting windows XP was like coming home after long time.
  • It seems that milenials got to thinkpads. Either www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/ got quite silly or I am getting old. I simply can't stand "oh, look at my e460 I've just bought" anymore. :eek:
  • Docking options is an another issue I'd like to rant about. My corporation gave me dell precision 5530 in very high configuration. Unfortunately the USB-C docking is extremely unreliable. My friends with thinkpads and HPs report the same thing. Sometimes reboot helps, sometimes you just need to live with it. There's simply nothing better than native signals. I know that USB-C operates with many alternate modes but this is the point. It's not reliable. Not even mentioning the super tiny connector on the thick wire. If they used at least the bigger USB-C plug...Even worse is that manufacturers do not specify details on USB-C. You need to buy the laptop and test it yourself. Bullsh!t.
  • I work for a well-known tech company manufacturing semiconductors. I should be theoretically surrounded by engineers praising professional solutions. The opposite is true. I constantly see modern LCD screens and laptops connected over VGA cables or project files stored on desktop. My orthodox filemanager is like witchcraft to them. Do you really think that such people care for screen aspect ratio? They don't even know that this could be different. Fu!king macbook is the icon.
  • Some companies now re-discovered what they killed some time ago. They are advertising brilliant productivity boost with 3:2 or 16:10 aspect ratio. It seems that Acer is one of the most progressive ones. Some models of the new Swift 3 and Swift 5 come with 3:2 aspect ratio. If it just wasn't glossy screen and the power button wasn't right next to the backspace key. My GF bought Swith 3 last year and I am positively impressed. It is a good laptop for this price.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#36 Post by amardeep » Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:22 pm

New models are announced, X13 at notebookcheck.net, T14, T14s and T15 at notebookcheck.net. No redesign or changed screen aspect ratio or anything major like that.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#37 Post by jdrou » Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:22 pm

T14 is replacing the QHD display option with UHD. Not sure I'd like that; I'd probably need to run it at QHD resolution.
Current Thinkpads:
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#38 Post by RealBlackStuff » Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:26 am

If QHD was OLED, then there's your answer.
Those LCDs are a flop.
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#39 Post by jdrou » Thu Feb 27, 2020 1:18 am

RealBlackStuff wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:26 am
If QHD was OLED, then there's your answer.
Those LCDs are a flop.
I think only X1/Yoga used OLED.
T460-T490 families had QHD IPS options.
Current Thinkpads:
X31, X40, X61T, X61, X201, X220 (i7 IPS), W520 (FHD), T440p (FHD),
T480 (QHD)
Dells: Latitude C840, Precision M70, Precision M4400, M6400 (WUXGA), M6600, M6700, 7730, XPS 13
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#40 Post by bgx » Fri Feb 28, 2020 12:32 pm

OLED was available on X1 yoga 1st and 2sd. But it was a disaster (got 3 panels swapped before they give me a Yoga 4th! a panel cannot hold more than ~14 months. One was refurbished and hold only 1.5 months).

Nowadays, only X1E and the newly annonced X13Yoga have a OLED option. All samsung. Hoping and believing the situation is better.

amardeep
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#41 Post by amardeep » Tue May 05, 2020 8:03 am

Some more ... stuff : https://www.notebookcheck.net/Lenovo-Th ... 791.0.html

Lenovo follows its usual clear product segmentation
Lenovo will release a new ThinkPad P15v – as the roadmap explains, the "v" marks a more affordable value model, so the ThinkPad P15v will be a step down from the more expensive ThinkPad P15. Also, Lenovo will release a rebranded ThinkPad P15v under the T series umbrella as the ThinkPad T15p. Both will probably be very much like one another, save for a different GPU.
Also, it seems the X12 may be a real thing, but it's still not clear exactly what it is. Might be a 12" notebook, but is probably the 12" detachable (i.e. tablet + keyboard style) mentioned. What's an X1 Nano ?

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#42 Post by amardeep » Fri May 15, 2020 4:33 pm

X13 appears on some obscure bit of lenovo.com, but not the main X-series page yet : https://www.lenovo.com/us/en/coming-soo ... 2TPX13X3N1 I imagine it's indistinguishable externally from an X390.

Specs include this :
Dimensions (H x W x D)
FHD Non-Touch Display: 312mm x 217.2mm x 16.9mm / 12.28" x 8.55" x 0.66"
HD & FHD Touch Display: 311.9mm x 217.2mm x 16.9mm / 12.28" x 8.55" x 0.66"
I'm glad we were warned the FHD Non-Touch version results in a compromise in size. But if you're imperial rather than metric you'll be fine.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#43 Post by w0qj » Sun May 17, 2020 10:13 am

Amen.
WarhawkCZ wrote:
Sat Feb 15, 2020 7:13 am
I also want to comment on a few things here. It's gonna be more thinking aloud.
  • I've been shopping for a new laptop past few years and can't find anything that fits my budget and brings me joy. Also, I plan to use the unit for 5 years. I simply don't like this consumerism when people change their gear every second year. My main driver is t430 with the FHD, quad-core and the keyboard mod. What a machine. Just two days ago, I booted t42p and the 4:3 aspect ratio is just brilliant. Booting windows XP was like coming home after long time.
  • It seems that milenials got to thinkpads. Either www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/ got quite silly or I am getting old. I simply can't stand "oh, look at my e460 I've just bought" anymore. :eek:
  • Docking options is an another issue I'd like to rant about. My corporation gave me dell precision 5530 in very high configuration. Unfortunately the USB-C docking is extremely unreliable. My friends with thinkpads and HPs report the same thing. Sometimes reboot helps, sometimes you just need to live with it. There's simply nothing better than native signals. I know that USB-C operates with many alternate modes but this is the point. It's not reliable. Not even mentioning the super tiny connector on the thick wire. If they used at least the bigger USB-C plug...Even worse is that manufacturers do not specify details on USB-C. You need to buy the laptop and test it yourself. Bullsh!t.
  • I work for a well-known tech company manufacturing semiconductors. I should be theoretically surrounded by engineers praising professional solutions. The opposite is true. I constantly see modern LCD screens and laptops connected over VGA cables or project files stored on desktop. My orthodox filemanager is like witchcraft to them. Do you really think that such people care for screen aspect ratio? They don't even know that this could be different. Fu!king macbook is the icon.
  • Some companies now re-discovered what they killed some time ago. They are advertising brilliant productivity boost with 3:2 or 16:10 aspect ratio. It seems that Acer is one of the most progressive ones. Some models of the new Swift 3 and Swift 5 come with 3:2 aspect ratio. If it just wasn't glossy screen and the power button wasn't right next to the backspace key. My GF bought Swith 3 last year and I am positively impressed. It is a good laptop for this price.
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#44 Post by UMPC2024 » Mon May 18, 2020 7:14 pm

Well at least Lenovo has a $400 digital picture frame :mrgreen:

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#45 Post by amardeep » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:04 pm

Bunch of stuff over at notebookcheck.net :
A summary of the latest Thinkpads and forthcoming reviews.
P15 and P17 gain better cooling design and are more modular (e.g. GPU is on a daughtercard).
X1 Nano arrives in November, and is a 13" X1 series Thinkpad (no details on what screen aspect ratio it will have).

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#46 Post by cadillacmike68 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 1:11 am

Well, WiFi - ALL WiFi, Does suck compared to a gigabit Ethernet setup. I get particularly annoyed when you can just loot at the machine and the green steps go to orange and half of them go grey. So I'll run the Cat6e wires all over the place if I have to.

And optical drives - where did they go???
600, 600X
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 1@ 1GHz SXGA+ 4 more; T23 2647 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+ 3 more
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
T41 T42 T43
T61 8897 2.4GHz SXGA+; 8898 2.4Ghz; 6463 2@ WSXGA+; 7658 2.5GHz; T61p; 6 more T61s
T500 2
T530 W530

amardeep
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#47 Post by amardeep » Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:13 am

To be honest I've never had a problem with wifi. At home, internet speeds are 70 Mbps down, nearly 20 Mbps up using an internet speed test and I've never noticed a slow down, and coverage across (my admittedly small) home is fine. I'm not transferring large amounts of data between multiple machines on the same network, so that use-case is not relevant to me. As for optical drives, well I don't need those either, downloads and USB memory sticks work for me (except if I want to rip an audio CD, but that's very rare, to non-existant, I suppose there are external USB drives that coud be used in this case if I really wanted to do such a thing). These things are the least of our worries, there's a lot worse in Thinkpad-land !

Curious to see what this X1 Nano will look like.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#48 Post by amardeep » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:36 am


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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#49 Post by Ibthink » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:24 pm

No, it is still called "ThinkPad T14" or "ThinkPad T14 Gen 1". The "T14i" is not an official product name and just on the website to differentiate the Intel from the AMD model.

I have a T14 with Intel CPU beside me at the moment and it does not say "T14i".
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#50 Post by amardeep » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:25 pm

X1 Nano is a 13" 16:10 Thinkpad, see thread on this site.

On the leaked slides on Twitter, the "2020 Thinkpad Commercial Porfolio" slide has an NEC logo in the top right of the X13 image, which is odd. What's that about ?

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#51 Post by Ibthink » Sun Jul 19, 2020 5:43 am

Lenovo and NEC have a partnership. Occasionally, Lenovo ships rebranded NEC products and vice-versa. So NEC probably sells the X13 in Japan under a different brand name.

Lenovo Japan and NEC PC are a joint-venture that develops most ThinkPads, see: http://necpc-lenovo-recruit.jp/ (site is Japanese)
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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#52 Post by Screamer » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:13 am

Rebranded? I guess that is why the LaVie Z (HZ550) was branded under Lenovo's name?

On NEC's side, I noticed an L560 that has been given a makeover. They identify it as the 'VersaPro type VX, VK23', and it comes with two keyboard options. One with an integrated numeric keypad, and one without the integrated numeric keypad.

The most interesting part about this particular 'L560', is that it has 5 USB 3.0 Type-A ports, an RS-232 serial port, a Type II CardBus slot, and a HDMI port. It seems to have removed the ExpressCard/34 slot, Mini-DisplayPort, SmartCard reader, and the docking port. Also, it looks like it uses the same slim-tip DC plug that Lenovo is currently using, so I guess that makes a lot of sense.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#53 Post by amardeep » Mon Jul 20, 2020 5:19 am

Thank you both for the info, I was not aware of this link between Lenovo and NEC, interesting.

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#54 Post by amardeep » Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:13 pm

Some more X1 Titanium / X1 Nano / X12 snippets or rumours from notebookcheck.net via Verizon.

X1 Titanium : 13.5" 2560x1504/ 1.3kg / 29.8 x 23.3 x 1.2 cm / 42Wh battery
X1 Nano : 13" 2160x1350 / 0.95kg / 29 x 21 x 1.5 cm / 48Wh battery
X12 : ? 1366x768 detachable / 0.58kg / 28.3 x 20.6 x 0.86 cm / 30Wh battery

X! Titanium pixel numbers looks odd once you work out the aspect ratio.

Someone on Reddit claims this, take it with a big pinch of salt.
This got posted by a Lenovo partner in the German ThinkPad forum:
X1 Titanium 13,5”, 3:2, 2K, 450 nits, 100% sRGB
X1 NANO 13,0”, 16:10, 2560x1600 px, 450 nits, 100% sRGB 2x Thunderbolt4
X12 Detachable 12,3” FHD IPS 400nit 3:2 Display

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#55 Post by bgx » Thu Sep 03, 2020 2:25 am

X1 nano has been confirmed to be 16:10. But the mac-like port available (= almost none) makes me not want it.

I am excited to see the X1 titanium if it is really 3:2 !!

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Re: Lenovo CES 2020

#56 Post by amardeep » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:40 pm

Having squinted at the blurry low-res pic on the "Verizon leak", I don't think this is the same device as on the Lenovo roadmap slides leak. The latter seems to have a border either side of the keyboard, whereas the former is (almost ?) edge-to-edge. One or both could be placeholder pictures.

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