Take a look at our
ThinkPads.com HOME PAGE
For those who might want to contribute to the blog, start here: Editors Alley Topic
Then contact Bill with a Private Message

The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

General Questions, Rumors, Real news & More
Post Reply
Message
Author
european.es
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:00 am
Location: Cádiz, Spain

The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#1 Post by european.es » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:09 am

Hello,

can someone tell me which one was the last, "REAL", original, true ThinkPad model made by IBM, right BEFORE Chinese Lenovo bought IBM's laptop business? I intend to buy a second hand ThinkPad and would like to know which ThinkPad model/series was the LAST real IBM.

Thank you! :thumbs-UP:

BillMorrow
*Senior* Admin
*Senior* Admin
Posts: 7405
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:40 pm
Location: San Francisco -> Florida -> Georgia
Contact:

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#2 Post by BillMorrow » Sat Feb 01, 2020 2:37 am

hello and welcome to the forum..

T60p
Bill Morrow, kept by parrots :parrot: & cockatoos
Sysop - forum.thinkpads.com

*
She was not what you would call refined,
She was not what you would call unrefined,
She was the type of person who kept a parrot.
~~~Mark Twain~~~

european.es
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:00 am
Location: Cádiz, Spain

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#3 Post by european.es » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:00 am

T60p? Okay, thank you! :thumbs-UP:

european.es
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2020 12:00 am
Location: Cádiz, Spain

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#4 Post by european.es » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:25 am

Hello again,

I just found this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThinkPad_T_series

it says:

"Launched in April 2005, the ThinkPad T43 and T43p laptops were the last T-series laptops manufactured for IBM."

It seems that it is not sure which one was made before Lenovo put their fingers on this series, but I got an idea now. The T43 and T60 are almost identical too.

Thanks again.

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8437
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#5 Post by dr_st » Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:54 am

I just love this question every time it comes up. It is as pointless as it is impossible to answer with a simple model number. That is because the transition was inherently gradual.

* At the date of the sale, obviously multiple models were already in various stages of development and production
* Many of the designers who worked on Thinkpads under IBM continued working on them under Lenovo

So the same model will frequently say "manufactured for IBM" on early units and "manufactured for Lenovo" on late units (even though they were built in the same factory by the same ODM). I think every model originally announced in 2004-2005 will have a mix.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

ajkula66
SuperUserGeorge
SuperUserGeorge
Posts: 16851
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:28 am
Location: Brodheadsville, Pennsylvania, USA

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#6 Post by ajkula66 » Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:27 am

dr_st wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:54 am

So the same model will frequently say "manufactured for IBM" on early units and "manufactured for Lenovo" on late units (even though they were built in the same factory by the same ODM). I think every model originally announced in 2004-2005 will have a mix.
Yep. I owned several T42 units with Lenovo badging top to bottom.
...Knowledge is a deadly friend when no one sets the rules...(King Crimson)

Cheers,

George (your grouchy retired FlexView farmer)

FlexView AARP club members:A31p, T43pSF

Abused daily: T520, X200s


PMs requesting personal tech support will be ignored.

micrex22
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:22 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#7 Post by micrex22 » Thu May 07, 2020 5:38 pm

T60/T61. IBM had to fix the infamous nvidia boards on the T61s when Lenovo didn’t care to do so. So IBM was still providing IBM branded laptops to their customers. Also IBM loaned Lenovo their intellistation 9229 chassis for Lenovo to use in their thinkcentres stripped down somewhat.

TLDR: IBM and Lenovo work together with sharing designs and things and the T60/T61 are *at least* quasi-IBM.

kfzhu1229
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1546
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:59 pm
Location: Toronto, Canada

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#8 Post by kfzhu1229 » Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm

T42/p 's would be the last ones you can find that doesn't have a Lenovo imprint in the bottom label of the laptop. I do have one of those T42 units that I had just restored if you want one
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Lat D830 X9000 8gb 128gb WSXGA+ Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)

micrex22
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:22 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#9 Post by micrex22 » Sun May 31, 2020 2:32 am

kfzhu1229 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm
T42/p 's would be the last ones you can find that doesn't have a Lenovo imprint in the bottom label of the laptop. I do have one of those T42 units that I had just restored if you want one
My T60p doesn't have a lenovo label at the bottom either. Early T60s didn't have Lenovo branding (aside from the BIOS splash and COA).

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 829
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#10 Post by Ibthink » Sun May 31, 2020 5:14 am

I think people get a little bit lost on small details like if the Lenovo logo is there or not in regards to the question "which is the last IBM ThinkPad". The bigger picture is more interesting to me personally.

The transition between IBM and Lenovo was a smooth one. Lenovo didn't just take over the brand, they took over the entire IBM PC division, so the same people who worked at IBM one day worked for Lenovo the next day (May 2005). Technically, that makes T43p, X41 and X32 the last ThinkPads released by IBM, as they came out in April 2005. However, Lenovo released the X41 Tablet in June 2005, a mere two months later – that machine was completely developed by IBM as well.

The Z60 followed in 2005 and it already featured a slightly updated design language as well as the Magnesium structure frame/roll-cage. ThinkPads typically have a two year development window, so the development of the Z60 was mostly done under IBM, too. Since it basically was a blue-print for the T60/R60 (January 2006) in terms of overall design, those are also mostly IBM designs.

In essence, you can not really draw a clear line – that is why the ThinkPads of this era are really "IBM/Lenovo ThinkPads", because both companies had a hand in designing them. It would be inaccurate to call them "IBM ThinkPads" just as it would be not quite right to call them "Lenovo ThinkPads".

The first model that was completely 100 % designed by Lenovo was the ThinkPad X300. All the prior models like T61 and R61 are still based on the Z60/T60 design that was mostly done by IBM, as those models were updates. Same is true for the T400/T500.

By 2011, all ThinkPads were 100 % based on purely Lenovo designs, but still followed the IBM design language. In terms of design, Lenovo really only became Independent from the IBM template in 2013, so that is definitely the end of the Lenovo/IBM transition era.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8437
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#11 Post by dr_st » Sun May 31, 2020 12:05 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 5:14 am
I think people get a little bit lost on small details like if the Lenovo logo is there or not in regards to the question "which is the last IBM ThinkPad". The bigger picture is more interesting to me personally.
I couldn't agree more, and yet this silly (so as not to use a harsher word) question keeps coming up. :mrgreen:
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

w0qj
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1101
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:53 pm
Location: Hong Kong

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#12 Post by w0qj » Sun May 31, 2020 1:34 pm

Amen!
dr_st wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 12:05 pm
I couldn't agree more, and yet this silly (so as not to use a harsher word) question keeps coming up. ...
The point is, the essence of the ThinkPad line was successfully replicated under Lenovo.
~Superior ThinkPad keyboard keys for touch typing (we finally adjusted to the newer chiclet/island type keyboards).
~Tough-as-nails build of ThinkPad (we used X1 Carbon while backpacking on a *bumpy* bus/road in Africa!)
~TrackPoint very useful while in the field (we used ThinkPads while on bus, taxi, ferry, train--try using a mouse there!)
~Mobile broadband option (ditto--we used ThinkPads while on bus, taxi, ferry, train with mobile broadband!)
~Matt LCD screen (honesly, we do more work with less glare on ThinkPads, and watch less movies on it).
~Docking Station solutions compatible with several generations of ThinkPads (this is GREAT for company IT investment).
~User-upgradable HDD/SSD without voiding the warranty (this is GREAT for company IT investment).
~Great repair depot / on-site repair service (our key ThinkPads are on 5-year on-site warranty).

Other things taken out of the ThinkPad line since T42 which we have mixed feelings about:
~Eliminated: LCD lid latch (honestly, our X1 Extreme accidentally turned on twice during the past year).
~Eliminated: HDD indicator lights (amongst other indicator lights): we feel HDD indicator light was genuinely useful.
~Eliminated: Parallel Port on T42 (ok with us).
~Eliminated: Ethernet Port changed to proprietary LAN dongle (why did they do this to the T490? There was enough space).
~Eliminated to a degree: Not all components are user-upgradable anymore (CPU soldered. Some have part/all of RAM soldered which IMHO should not happen on T-series ThinkPad such as the T490).

Other things taken out of the ThinkPad line due to industry "trends":
~Eliminated: 7-row keyboard (our T410 with 7-row keyboard is still a daily driver, very useful).
~Eliminated: 4:3 or 16:10 LCD panel (our T410 with 16:10 LCD is very useful as vertical LCD space is precious).
~Eliminated: Ultrabay with (typically) DVD drive: (guess DVD discs and the like are less useful going forward. Still miss it.)

[Edit: addendum]
~Eliminated: ThinkLight, replaced with keyboard backlight back in the T/P/X 230/430/530 series.
[Edit: /addendum]

======================
We bought a T42 when IBM owned the ThinkPad brand, and as such our T42 had "IBM" imprinted on it. No Lenovo.

About halfway through the 12 month sales cycle of T42, IBM announced that the ThinkPad brand was sold to Lenovo.
Hence ajkula66's observation that some T42 units had Lenovo branding on it.

T43 was amongst the first ThinkPad models announced under Lenovo branding.

We were there; we watched this development very closely.
kfzhu1229 wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 6:56 pm
T42/p 's would be the last ones you can find that doesn't have a Lenovo imprint in the bottom label of the laptop. I do have one of those T42 units that I had just restored if you want one
ajkula66 wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 10:27 am
dr_st wrote:
Sat Feb 01, 2020 3:54 am
So the same model will frequently say "manufactured for IBM" on early units and "manufactured for Lenovo" on late units (even though they were built in the same factory by the same ODM). I think every model originally announced in 2004-2005 will have a mix.
Yep. I owned several T42 units with Lenovo badging top to bottom.
======================
When Lenovo/ThinkPad showcased the super-thin X300 (with mobile broadband!) during the 2008 Olympics, we were very excited.
Eagerly awaited for the 14" version of X300 to come along, which ended up being the X1 / X1 Carbon series.
Happy customer of the X1 series ever since ;)
Ibthink wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 5:14 am
...The first model that was completely 100 % designed by Lenovo was the ThinkPad X300. ...
Last edited by w0qj on Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

omero72
Posts: 37
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2011 7:04 pm
Location: Marmara, Anatolia

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#13 Post by omero72 » Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:02 pm

Ibthink wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 5:14 am
truncated. quoted just for replies.

Thank you for the comprehensive comment. That thing,whether a TP was made by IBM or Lenovo has always interested me too.

I've got R31 (Oct 2002), R51 (Feb 2005), X41 (Dec 2005) and Lenovo N500 3000

in terms of durability and mechanical strength, R31 and X41 are super. R51 has issues on its plastic case,several cracks small and not so small occured in time, but I still love it.

Well, according to the dates given, I have 3 Thinkpads which are manufactured totally by IBM and of course they are fantastic machines.

But. The Lenovo N500 3000 is quite good too, particularly when you take the performance, usability, quality / price ratio into account.

micrex22
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 404
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2015 12:22 am
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#14 Post by micrex22 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:16 am

Ibthink wrote:
Sun May 31, 2020 5:14 am
I think people get a little bit lost on small details like if the Lenovo logo is there or not in regards to the question "which is the last IBM ThinkPad". The bigger picture is more interesting to me personally.

The transition between IBM and Lenovo was a smooth one. Lenovo didn't just take over the brand, they took over the entire IBM PC division, so the same people who worked at IBM one day worked for Lenovo the next day (May 2005). Technically, that makes T43p, X41 and X32 the last ThinkPads released by IBM, as they came out in April 2005. However, Lenovo released the X41 Tablet in June 2005, a mere two months later – that machine was completely developed by IBM as well.

On IBM's official announcement letter you can see how they explain IBM and Lenovo are collaborative companies at this point. However, I think it's moreso people missing classic IBM features and the old RGB Paul Rand logo. Honestly if they had a non-chiclet keyboard option and a a 3:2 display option like Microsoft the people would be satisfied even if they have to put up with looking at the ugly lenovo logo. But of course that was too much for them.

cadillacmike68
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1055
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:19 pm
Location: Florida

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#15 Post by cadillacmike68 » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:36 am

woqj:

Later ThinkPads past the T42 have lid latches. My T61s, T500s and T/W530s all have them. Maybe the X series do not any longer but at least up to T/W 430/530 did.

I like the ThinkLight too, I thought it was gone in the T/W530, but they just moved the on / off to the spacebar.
600
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 4@ 900MHz, 1@ 1GHz SXGA+; T23 2647 2@ 1.13GHz, 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
T41 T42 T43
T61 8897 2.4GHz SXGA+; 8898 2.4Ghz; 6463 2@ WSXGA+; 7658 2.5GHz; T61p; 6 more T61s
T500 2
T530 W530

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8437
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#16 Post by dr_st » Wed Jun 03, 2020 4:05 am

omero72 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 4:02 pm
I've got R31 (Oct 2002), R51 (Feb 2005), X41 (Dec 2005) and Lenovo N500 3000

in terms of durability and mechanical strength, R31 and X41 are super. R51 has issues on its plastic case,several cracks small and not so small occured in time, but I still love it.

Well, according to the dates given, I have 3 Thinkpads which are manufactured totally by IBM and of course they are fantastic machines.

But. The Lenovo N500 3000 is quite good too, particularly when you take the performance, usability, quality / price ratio into account.
Well, actually, the R31 was built by Acer, the R51 by IBM and the X41 by Wistron. That's according to the schematics. Design-wise they were all under IBM. So you may have 4 laptops built by 4 different ODMs (original design manufacturer). Not sure who built the N500. :mrgreen:

P.S. Not sure IBM actually built any laptops; it's just that the schematics for R51 (and some other models) do not clearly show the ODM as some other schematics do.
cadillacmike68 wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:36 am
Later ThinkPads past the T42 have lid latches. My T61s, T500s and T/W530s all have them. Maybe the X series do not any longer but at least up to T/W 430/530 did.
I believe that the X220 is the first non-Tablet X-series without a lid latch.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

w0qj
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1101
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2004 9:53 pm
Location: Hong Kong

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#17 Post by w0qj » Wed Jun 03, 2020 12:22 pm

cadillacmike68:
1. Thanks for your heads-up about ThinkLight; felt something was "missing" and now know what was missed!
***Will add an [Edit: ThinkLight] into my original post for completeness.
We still use our X230, it also has both ThinkLight and keyboard backlight, same as T/W 430/530 as you said.
The X1 / X1 Carbon always came with keyboard backlight; it never had the ThinkLight.
www.thinkpadcenter.ch/2019/06/20/keyboa ... -backlight

2. Re: Latches in ThinkPads.
Personally, I don't plan to document which ThinkPad generation/model had which feature added/removed (eg: ThinkLight, LCD latches, etc.).
That would be a *very* long anthology/compilation; others would be more than welcome to meet this challenge!

OP's focus was what made a ThinkPad "IBM", and what made a ThinkPad "Lenovo".
Hence our focus is simply from the time of "IBM" ThinkPad T42 back in 2005, and compare to today's contemporary ThinkPads in the year 2020.
Daily Driver: X1 Extreme 1st Gen (X1E1): i7 | 16GB | 1TB | IPS
Current Thinkpads: X1E1 | X1C4 | X1C3 | X250 | X230 | T410
Retired Thinkpads: T42 | 560 (circa 1996)
~~IBM Thinkpad era computer bag !

Saucey
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:22 pm
Location: San Diego, California
Contact:

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#18 Post by Saucey » Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:38 pm

I knew about the R31 but I did not know about the X41 was done by Winstron.

Technically even the original ThinkPads were not 100% by IBM.
You have the Zenith 300, but the 700, 700C and 700T/2521 were co-developed by Ricoh.
Then we got Tadpole who licensed the TrackPoint on their laptops, and eventually made IBM the RS/6000 N40...

I'm all for opening the can of worms of True IBM Built ThinkPads.
Coffee, ThinkPads & Nikon Fan.

Current: PixelBook & W550s
Old Favorites: A31p, T43p, 2521, 755, T60

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8437
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: The last REAL ThinkPad before Lenovo

#19 Post by dr_st » Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:52 pm

Saucey wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 2:38 pm
I knew about the R31 but I did not know about the X41 was done by Winstron.
Most X series schematics I've seen have Wistron logos on them, from X41 to X230, as well as the first X1 Carbon, and most of the CS09 Thinkpads (T400s-T430s, T410-T430, W510-W530). They seem to be a very popular ODM with Lenovo, and before that IBM (R51e/R52). R40 were apparently manufactured by LG. Others include Quanta (e.g., G-series, Z-series some of the SL-series) and even ASUS/Pegatron, that also did some of the SL series. Some of the later incarnation of the Edge were moved over to Compal (eventually under the name LCFC which is a joint Lenovo-Compal venture).
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), X1 Carbon (20HQ), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “GENERAL ThinkPad News/Comments & Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 20 guests