Take a look at our
ThinkPads.com HOME PAGE
For those who might want to contribute to the blog, start here: Editors Alley Topic
Then contact Bill with a Private Message

16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

General Questions, Rumors, Real news & More
Message
Author
bgx
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 am
Location: rennes, france

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#31 Post by bgx » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:04 am

Puppy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:34 pm
Still broken keyboard layout and no AMD Ryzen option. But it is a good start to get rid of the 16:9 idiocy.
Again, you are ranting without making much sense.
I was a die hard classic thinkpad (X40:2005-2011, X60s:2011-2017).
Since, i have a X1yoga (1st OLED, replaced by a 4th IPS after the early OLED debacle).

The keyboard is better than the one i had on x40 and X60s, and I prefer the layout also (it takes a bit of time to adapt to home/end being on different place than the page up/ page down), but it makes sense. I would prefer dedicated buttons for volume and mic on/off (I had on the X1yoga1st btw), but i can live with that.

Notice that on <= 13inch, the insert/home button are comboed, and this is pretty bad afaik, but on >=14", no problem, there are 2 differnt buttons.

The only true problem i see is the 16/9 aspect ratio which is really suboptimal on many task, in word and excel in particular. And the awfully large bezel under and above the screen. PRoblem solved with the 3:2 titanium it seems, if only they keep the rest similar (ie all the port which are a joy to use, in particular the full size hdmi which is so convenient on holidays).

Concerning AMD vs Intel: on powerful machines, I would prefer the more powerful current rizen iterations (thought tiger lake seems to be a step in the right direction). For the lightest subnotbooks, I do prefer the more energy efficient current intel iteration (of course, all of that could change one way or another in the future).
I downvolt/downclock (I remove the stupid turbo using throttlestop, dividing the power consumption by 2!).

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8663
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#32 Post by dr_st » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:35 am

bgx wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:04 am
Puppy wrote:
Tue Sep 29, 2020 2:34 pm
Still broken keyboard layout and no AMD Ryzen option. But it is a good start to get rid of the 16:9 idiocy.
Again, you are ranting without making much sense......
.....The keyboard is better than the one i had on x40 and X60s, and I prefer the layout also.....

....Notice that on <= 13inch, the insert/home button are comboed, and this is pretty bad afaik, but on >=14", no problem, there are 2 differnt buttons....

....The only true problem i see is the 16/9 aspect ratio which is really suboptimal on many task...
So, for you the complaints about the keyboard layout are "rants" and the 16:9 is the only "true" problem. For others, like yours truly, the keyboard layout is the actual problem, and the 16:9 aspect ratio is a non-issue.

Please don't assume that the things you find important are universally such.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

bgx
Sophomore Member
Posts: 178
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:56 am
Location: rennes, france

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#33 Post by bgx » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:34 am

My point is that many people here havent actually tried to use the new keyboard (not so new now) for a while and try to adapt to it. They are scared, but they didnt try to adapt to it (fear of change, entropy, etc). I understand I was like that before changing.

I was afraid about the keyboard feel/quality, and i was afraid about the layout, I was afraid about the tackpoint, and I was afraid about the aspect ratio, coming from a very classical thinkpad.

My impression, from someone who did use both for several years is as follows:
- the keyboard quality is better (coming back to my x60s for a bit was painful, the keys seemed very mushy)
- the layout is good. I do miss the dedicated keys, but it is really not a big issue, and the adaptation was not either painful nor long.
- the trackpoint is a bit more problematic, but i found ways to get other design thanks to 3d printed (though ELAN trackpoint on the X1Yoga 4th is cleraly worse than the synaptic one on the X1 Yoga 1st. I kinda remember it was synaptic on the X60s and elan on the X40 as well, and it also felt better on the x60s).

-In the end, the aspect ratio is the only real problem.

Now, this is certainly a subjective matter, and anybody who actually used a "new design" for an extended period of time and an "old design" should give his/her opinion.

Not everyone rant, but some people dont stop (e.g. our Czeck friend), while they never tried!

Did you spend years with both? Do you want to share your opinion?

edit: I see that you have many machines. mostly old design -but u have a T490 and a X1yoga (gen?). Which ones are u using now, why?
How is the feel of the T25 keyboard vs the x61? similar, different, better? dont you agree that the feel of the X1yoga at least keyboard is much better than the X61?

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8663
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#34 Post by dr_st » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:35 am

bgx wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:34 am
Did you spend years with both? Do you want to share your opinion?

edit: I see that you have many machines. mostly old design -but u have a T490 and a X1yoga (gen?). Which ones are u using now, why?
How is the feel of the T25 keyboard vs the x61? similar, different, better? dont you agree that the feel of the X1yoga at least keyboard is much better than the X61?
I have used an X1 Carbon for about a year and a half, as a company-issued laptop, and now it's been replaced with a T490. I don't use the Yoga at all, it's not mine. It's not an X1 Yoga, BTW, it's a Yoga 14 (which is like a Yoga 460, but black).

I much prefer the Thinkpad 25 keyboard layout still. There are more keys overall and the layout is more like desktop keyboards, so I don't feel limited or constantly having to adjust.

The keyboard feel of the Thinkpad 25 is very good. It is very firm and solid. More firm and solid than any legacy Thinkpad keyboard I've used other than T4x series. The travel is shorter than actual legacy keyboards. It bothers some, but not me. The layout is more important to me than key travel.

The keyboard feel on the 6-row keyboards is also good I do agree that the current 6-row Lenovo keyboard is still the best laptop keyboard, short of the 7-row Lenovo keyboard, so, unfortunately, they have no real incentive to bring the 7-row back.

But I will not buy a Lenovo laptop with a 6-row keyboard for my personal use, ever. I'd rather continue using legacy systems, and if I ever need more power - I will hunt for a quad-core modded **30 series with a 7-row keyboard, or a T480 in TP25 chassis.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

Puppy
Senior ThinkPadder
Senior ThinkPadder
Posts: 2803
Joined: Sat Oct 30, 2004 4:52 am
Location: Prague, Czech Republic

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#35 Post by Puppy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:32 am

bgx wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:04 am
it takes a bit of time to adapt to home/end being on different place than the page up/ page down
I'll rather spend that time by someting more useful :D Even HP, Acer or MSI have better keyboard layouts now, having these four navigation keys vertically clustered. I also don't mind to have Fn-ed them on cursor keys, as my current Huawei laptop has. All of these options are better and more logical for me than the 6-row Thinkpad layout.
ThinkPad (1992 - 2012): R51, X31, X220, Tablet 8
Huawei MateBook 13

TPFanatic
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:29 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#36 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:46 am

Each of the times I've played with an Ivy Bridge unit, I've entertained the 6 row for a month or a few and in time swapped it over to the 7 row every time.

Even if it's a fine keyboard in itself, the new keyboard has a compromised layout which I don't accept when there's a clearly superior alternative, courtesy of the 7 row mod for the Ivys. For newer models, I'm unfortunately SOL, which is why I will never upgrade past the **30 gen.

I like classic T-Series ThinkPads. I like the 7 row, Integrated Numpad, ThinkLight, lid latch, Ultrabay. Even the **20 gen is still plenty fast and capable for laptop things, I'm using a T420 daily since this time last year, and my eGPU takes care of graphical needs. More power, should I want it, will come in a desktop, that has more upgrade potential than any newer "ThinkPad".
lenovo T420 i5 2520m 16GB QHD w/ eGPU GTX 960
lenovos T520 i7 2720qm 8GB FHD, T420s i5 3320m 8GB QHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD w/ Optimus, S1 Yoga i7 4600u 8GB FHD
IBM X601 Tablet L7500 8GB SXGA+
Enable 2 finger scroll on old Synaptics touchpads.

fatpolomanjr
Sophomore Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: Moreno Valley, CA USA
Contact:

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#37 Post by fatpolomanjr » Wed Sep 30, 2020 4:29 pm

TPFanatic wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:46 am
which is why I will never upgrade past the **30 gen.

I like classic T-Series ThinkPads. I like the 7 row, Integrated Numpad, ThinkLight, lid latch, Ultrabay. Even the **20 gen is still plenty fast and capable for laptop things, I'm using a T420 daily since this time last year, and my eGPU takes care of graphical needs. More power, should I want it, will come in a desktop, that has more upgrade potential than any newer "ThinkPad".
I mean, never say never, and all that. At some point **30 will have the same status as Thinkpads older than say 2005. I get what you're saying though, which is why I'm such a fan of the work by HOPE and Xue Yao.

It is annoying to have to adjust to a new layout where PgUp/Dn is displaced and you have to use the Fn key to get to media keys. I've been using 40% to 75% mechanical keyboards with function layers customized to my liking, with no need for the TKL layout emulated by a 7-row Thinkpad keyboard. It is still very nice to have on a laptop, and nonsensical that they felt the need to completely axe the famous, tried and true layout.
T14s | AUO 14" FHD Low Power 400 nit | Ryzen 7 4750u | Windows 10
T70 | 15" UXGA LED with RealBlackStuff LED-Cable-Mod | i7-7700HQ | Windows 10
X62 | 12.1" SXGA+ Xiphmont LED | i7-5500U | Xubuntu / Windows 10

TPFanatic
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:29 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#38 Post by TPFanatic » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:21 pm

How much more capable will laptops need to get though? Lenovo seems to thinks 16GB RAM is just fine for the X1 Nano to max at, which is also the most my T420 can take (and it has 16GB, only because I got it at a really good value, because 8GB is just fine). I also downgraded from an i7 2670QM back to the i5 2520m to no detriment in performance. My videos exported a little faster with the quad, but they still export in good time with the i5. It reboots in under 30 seconds, the desktop is snappy, my old games run at plenty FPS off the HD3000, 1080p Youtube works great, I have all the screen space for multiple windows of web browsing, graphic design, word processing. The machine is 9 years old and I don't think it will be any less capable in another 9. Amazingly the advent of the QHD adapter made it more capable than it was 9 years ago.
lenovo T420 i5 2520m 16GB QHD w/ eGPU GTX 960
lenovos T520 i7 2720qm 8GB FHD, T420s i5 3320m 8GB QHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD w/ Optimus, S1 Yoga i7 4600u 8GB FHD
IBM X601 Tablet L7500 8GB SXGA+
Enable 2 finger scroll on old Synaptics touchpads.

fatpolomanjr
Sophomore Member
Posts: 198
Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:11 pm
Location: Moreno Valley, CA USA
Contact:

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#39 Post by fatpolomanjr » Thu Oct 01, 2020 2:53 am

This is more a side note of the ram limitation:

I don't know if it's the nature of the ongoing "advancement" of modern software or some kind of deal between OEMs and OS designers to add more bloat to justify chasing higher specs, but with just Microsoft Teams and Chrome open with a few tabs I'm at 6.1GB memory usage. That's significantly higher compared to just a year or two ago when all my devices had 8GB of memory with only 50% utilization. I'm perfectly fine with 16GB on a desktop pc or a laptop with removable memory, but for soldered memory I worry about when the 6.1GB ram becomes 14GB or 15GB usage and I won't be able to simply install more ram.

Maybe by then the Linux support for the X1 Nano will be good enough with similar battery life optimizations as Windows 10, but even so I'd rather just use WSL for the few times a year I need to compile a new keymap.
T14s | AUO 14" FHD Low Power 400 nit | Ryzen 7 4750u | Windows 10
T70 | 15" UXGA LED with RealBlackStuff LED-Cable-Mod | i7-7700HQ | Windows 10
X62 | 12.1" SXGA+ Xiphmont LED | i7-5500U | Xubuntu / Windows 10

amardeep
Sophomore Member
Posts: 142
Joined: Sun Sep 30, 2007 2:15 pm
Location: Winchester, United Kingdom

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#40 Post by amardeep » Thu Oct 01, 2020 3:43 am

It seems a bit weird to limit this to 16GB. That's probably fine at the moment, but I had imagined most serious new design laptops could be configured up to 32GB. Oh for the days of a free RAM slot for later expansion, you could get 16GB and have a slot free if you needed more later on.

exTPfan
Junior Member
Junior Member
Posts: 259
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:38 pm
Location: Ann Arbor, MI

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#41 Post by exTPfan » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:02 am

Thinkpad X1 Carbon to have 16:10 screen in February 2021 (maybe).
https://www.notebookcheck.net/ThinkPad- ... 791.0.html
Work: T60/61 FPad (Win 7, UXGA IPS); T60/61 FPad (Win 7, UXGA IPS); forever.
Toys: X1 (first gen, Win 7); T450s (Win 7).

TPFanatic
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:29 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#42 Post by TPFanatic » Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:23 am

If this is true...
:bow: 16:10 :bow: Lenovo
It won't be long before the other manufacturers copy.
The golden ratio, era returns.

eDP IPS 16:10 mods for T410?
lenovo T420 i5 2520m 16GB QHD w/ eGPU GTX 960
lenovos T520 i7 2720qm 8GB FHD, T420s i5 3320m 8GB QHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD w/ Optimus, S1 Yoga i7 4600u 8GB FHD
IBM X601 Tablet L7500 8GB SXGA+
Enable 2 finger scroll on old Synaptics touchpads.

dr_st
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 8663
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:20 am
Location: Israel

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#43 Post by dr_st » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:17 am

TPFanatic wrote:
Tue Oct 06, 2020 10:23 am
eDP IPS 16:10 mods for T410?
For Z61t.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad, A21m 2628-GXU

TPFanatic
ThinkPadder
ThinkPadder
Posts: 1493
Joined: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:29 pm
Location: Boston, Massachusetts

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#44 Post by TPFanatic » Tue Oct 06, 2020 11:59 am

Would 14.1" 16:10 be unique to the market? Apple still does 15.4" and 13" and the new X1 Nano is 12".
lenovo T420 i5 2520m 16GB QHD w/ eGPU GTX 960
lenovos T520 i7 2720qm 8GB FHD, T420s i5 3320m 8GB QHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD, T430 i5 3320m 8GB FHD w/ Optimus, S1 Yoga i7 4600u 8GB FHD
IBM X601 Tablet L7500 8GB SXGA+
Enable 2 finger scroll on old Synaptics touchpads.

Ibthink
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 861
Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2012 6:28 am
Location: Gelnhausen, Germany

Re: 16:10 returns to ThinkPads: The X1 Nano

#45 Post by Ibthink » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:53 pm

- Apple has 13.3" and 16" (instead of 15.4") 16:10, though rumor has it that they will move to 14" next year.

- Dell has 13.4", 15.6" and 17" 16:10 on their XPS line.

- Lenovo has 13" (X1 Nano), 13.3" (various IdeaPad/Yoga/ThinkBook models) and 14" (Yoga Slim 7 Pro) 16:10.

I guess this is the problem when a format is only available as custom screens - there are no real standards. The classical sizes 14.1" and 15.4" are currently not used by anyone.
IBM ThinkPad R50e | lenovo ThinkPad X301 | lenovo ThinkPad Z61t

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “GENERAL ThinkPad News/Comments & Questions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 27 guests