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Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Very nice read:
solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12/how-and-why-i-stopped-buying-new-laptops.html
Money quote (literally):
»[...]For that price, you may be able to buy the crappiest new laptop on the market, but it surely won’t get you two spare laptops. If you manage to keep working with this lot for ten years, your laptop costs would be 28.5 euros per year. You may have to replace a few solid-state drives and SD-cards, but it won’t make much difference. Furthermore, you save the ecological damage that is caused by the production of a new laptop every 5.7 years.«
solar.lowtechmagazine.com/2020/12/how-and-why-i-stopped-buying-new-laptops.html
Money quote (literally):
»[...]For that price, you may be able to buy the crappiest new laptop on the market, but it surely won’t get you two spare laptops. If you manage to keep working with this lot for ten years, your laptop costs would be 28.5 euros per year. You may have to replace a few solid-state drives and SD-cards, but it won’t make much difference. Furthermore, you save the ecological damage that is caused by the production of a new laptop every 5.7 years.«
A few 14.1" and 15" T61+ Frankenpads and one T480
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Good article.
For me it's simpler.
No 7-row keyboard - no dice.
For me it's simpler.
No 7-row keyboard - no dice.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
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Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
I totally agree with that article (as probably most on this Forum).
There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to buy any new laptop.
The only computers I ever bought new were a Commodore 64 back in the '70s and a desktop tower, which has been upgraded a few times since, always with ASUS motherboards.
In this current century I have "gone" through over 160 used Thinkpads.
A handful or two are missing from this list, because early on I did not keep track of those.
And IIRC I only ever had one non-IBM/Lenovo machine, a NEC Versa.
Most of these were bought reasonably cheap, because they had a password.
And since I'm retired, I had plenty of time fixing/playing with them.
From my IBM/Lenovo list (in alphabetical order):
3000-C200 1
3000-N200 1
E530 1
G560 1
M900 1
R51 3
R52 5
R60 4
R61 2
R61i 1
R400 1
R500 1
S100 1
SL500 1
SL510 2
Transnote 2
T20 1
T22 1
T23 37
T30 7
T40 2
T40p 1
T42p 1
T43 6
T43p 2
T60 4
T601 3
T60p 1
T61 15
T400 4
T410 2
T420 3
T440p 1
T500 6
W510 2
X31 3
X41T 2
X60s 2
X60T 1
X61s 1
X61T 2
X1 1
X1-C1 1
X131e 1
X200 2
X200s 6
X201 3
X220 1
X230 1
X240 1
X240s 2
X250 1
X300 1
X301 4
Total: 163
From the above, I have only these 5 left (the rest was sold):
T23 1
T440p 1
X240 1
X250 1
M900 1 (really a miniature desktop)
And my faithful (ASUS mobo) desktop tower will go up for sale next (replaced by the M900).
To be honest, I've made a pretty penny or 2 with all that wheeling and dealing, so basically all my laptops are 'free'.
There's absolutely no reason whatsoever to buy any new laptop.
The only computers I ever bought new were a Commodore 64 back in the '70s and a desktop tower, which has been upgraded a few times since, always with ASUS motherboards.
In this current century I have "gone" through over 160 used Thinkpads.
A handful or two are missing from this list, because early on I did not keep track of those.
And IIRC I only ever had one non-IBM/Lenovo machine, a NEC Versa.
Most of these were bought reasonably cheap, because they had a password.
And since I'm retired, I had plenty of time fixing/playing with them.
From my IBM/Lenovo list (in alphabetical order):
3000-C200 1
3000-N200 1
E530 1
G560 1
M900 1
R51 3
R52 5
R60 4
R61 2
R61i 1
R400 1
R500 1
S100 1
SL500 1
SL510 2
Transnote 2
T20 1
T22 1
T23 37
T30 7
T40 2
T40p 1
T42p 1
T43 6
T43p 2
T60 4
T601 3
T60p 1
T61 15
T400 4
T410 2
T420 3
T440p 1
T500 6
W510 2
X31 3
X41T 2
X60s 2
X60T 1
X61s 1
X61T 2
X1 1
X1-C1 1
X131e 1
X200 2
X200s 6
X201 3
X220 1
X230 1
X240 1
X240s 2
X250 1
X300 1
X301 4
Total: 163
From the above, I have only these 5 left (the rest was sold):
T23 1
T440p 1
X240 1
X250 1
M900 1 (really a miniature desktop)
And my faithful (ASUS mobo) desktop tower will go up for sale next (replaced by the M900).
To be honest, I've made a pretty penny or 2 with all that wheeling and dealing, so basically all my laptops are 'free'.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
This guy speaks our language and must have visited this forum at some time. Great blog there and most on this forum probably feel the same way.
For me when I find a Thinkpad that I really like I buy 2 units and this gives you spares going forward.
I did this with my X301 and my X220. The thing is, I still have 4 fully functional laptops. Quality Thinkpads generally survive. LOL
Besides my laptops I also have 2 dual-core desktops and I have no intention of purchasing anything new in the foreseeable future.
For me when I find a Thinkpad that I really like I buy 2 units and this gives you spares going forward.
I did this with my X301 and my X220. The thing is, I still have 4 fully functional laptops. Quality Thinkpads generally survive. LOL
Besides my laptops I also have 2 dual-core desktops and I have no intention of purchasing anything new in the foreseeable future.
Active --- Love the X series
X301 W 7/Mint | X201 540M L Mint | X220 2520 W7/Mint
Nostalgia
X61 T7500 / T41 T42 T43 / A31
Rogue daily driver - Samsung RV511 15.6 " Screen - W 7
X301 W 7/Mint | X201 540M L Mint | X220 2520 W7/Mint
Nostalgia
X61 T7500 / T41 T42 T43 / A31
Rogue daily driver - Samsung RV511 15.6 " Screen - W 7
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
RealBlackStuff wrote: ↑Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:27 am
In this current century I have "gone" through over 160 used Thinkpads.
RealBlackStuff, how do you manage to have "gone through" 160 Thinkpads??
Do you actually run a Thinkpad repair business?
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- Location: Loch Garman, Éire
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Nope, I just liked to play with them.
Bought them cheap, fixed them if necessary, removed password if necessary, sold them on with some (pocket-money) profit, bought some more, etc.
This was made easy while I lived in USA (2006-2019).
Now that I'm back in Ireland, the market here is rather 'dry' for used laptops that are worth buying.
Apart from that, prices have gone through the roof, so I've stopped for now.
Bought them cheap, fixed them if necessary, removed password if necessary, sold them on with some (pocket-money) profit, bought some more, etc.
This was made easy while I lived in USA (2006-2019).
Now that I'm back in Ireland, the market here is rather 'dry' for used laptops that are worth buying.
Apart from that, prices have gone through the roof, so I've stopped for now.
Lovely day for a Guinness! (The Real Black Stuff)
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
Lenovo: X240, X250, T440p, T480, M900 Tiny.
PS: the old Boardroom website is still available on the Wayback Machine.
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- ThinkPadder
- Posts: 1494
- Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 9:19 pm
- Location: Florida
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Jeez, and I thought I had a lot of ThinkPads...
600 600X
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 1@ 1GHz SXGA+ 4 more; T23 2647 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+ 3 more
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
T41 T42 T43
T60 T61 8897 2.4GHz SXGA+; 8898 2.4Ghz; 6463 2@ WSXGA+; 7658 2.5GHz; T61p; 6 more T61s
T500 2
T530 W530
760LD FUBARd
T21 2647 T22 2647 1@ 1GHz SXGA+ 4 more; T23 2647 1@ 1.2GHz SXGA+ 3 more
T30 2366-88U 2GHz; 2366-83U 1.8G; 5@ 2366-LU0/66U; 2367-KU6 FUBARd
T41 T42 T43
T60 T61 8897 2.4GHz SXGA+; 8898 2.4Ghz; 6463 2@ WSXGA+; 7658 2.5GHz; T61p; 6 more T61s
T500 2
T530 W530
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- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2015 10:59 pm
- Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Well now it seems like I am keeping up the exact same thing you've been doing a decade earlier... Just I don't do just thinkpads anymore, but all business laptops from the ThinkPad Compaq/Elitebook and Latitude trio.RealBlackStuff wrote: ↑Fri Dec 10, 2021 4:19 amNope, I just liked to play with them.
Bought them cheap, fixed them if necessary, removed password if necessary, sold them on with some (pocket-money) profit, bought some more, etc.
This was made easy while I lived in USA (2006-2019).
Now that I'm back in Ireland, the market here is rather 'dry' for used laptops that are worth buying.
Apart from that, prices have gone through the roof, so I've stopped for now.
Granted I am in Canada so the convenience is more compromised, but I live in the biggest city in Canada so hunting down 2nd hand used ThinkPads and Latitudes really isn't anything hard if you show up to the right place at the right time. Though I am not getting nearly as much great ThinkPad deals lately that even comes close to something like a pair of worn E6410 and barely used E6420 for just C$50 together.
I come to enjoy such experiences and it's great for me to see if my hard work (many times going down things that no one have ever dealt with before) actually rendered a working laptop in the end.
As for the topic though, well I just really like the feeling of the older laptops where they have deep travel keyboards and excellent ergonomics in general.
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
But also big limitations. As much as I like the classic Thinkpads, I can't help but appreciate how good are modern high resolution IPS displays or the improved battery life.
X301: SU9600 | 8GB | 1TB | WXGA+
X1C5: 7600U | 16GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C9: 1145G7 | 16GB | 1TB | WUXGA | WWAN
X1Y8: 1365U | 32GB | 1TB | WUXGA
P14s G1 AMD: 4750U | 32GB | 1TB | PG FHD Touch
T14 G2: 1145G7 | 32GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C5: 7600U | 16GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C9: 1145G7 | 16GB | 1TB | WUXGA | WWAN
X1Y8: 1365U | 32GB | 1TB | WUXGA
P14s G1 AMD: 4750U | 32GB | 1TB | PG FHD Touch
T14 G2: 1145G7 | 32GB | 1TB | FHD
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- Location: Toronto, Canada
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Oh yeah most definitely. Even for something as new as the ThinkPad T430 or the Latitude E6430, and then you equip it with the best looking HD+ native LVDS display (from Alienware and from Inspiron/Studio 1440 respectively), only to find out that the true IPS displays from a T440p is a world better in display quality, not to mention higher resolution.
Battery life is definitely something older laptops cannot match, unless you strap them with batteries that go over the airplane 100Wh limits, though I rather have this than dealing with puffy Li-Po battery cells...
Dell Lat CP MMX-233 64mb 40gb W2k
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)
600 PII-266 416mb 40gb WXP
T23 PIII 1.13ghz 1gb W7
Precision M4300 X9000 8gb 160gb WUXGA Ultrasharp fp W10
T530i 15.6" i7 16gb fp W10
UXGA:
A30p PIII 1.2 1gb W7 (IDTech)
T43p 2.26 2gb fp W10 (Sharp)
Lat C840 P4-2.5 2gb 60gb W7 (Ultrasharp)
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Not sure how old are you folks or your family situation (I hope you're doing fine) but mine has been [censored] lately and I've come to realize what my priorities in life are. Sure, I still think the classic keyboard is the best you can get, but what if Lenovo stubbornly refuses to release it ever again? I can't live in the past forever; specially considering the pressure to upgrade from the recent mainstream OS changes. I don't like it, but I can live with the 6 row keyboard.
For that reason I've settled on Skylake for the foreseeable future. I don't get the stellar performance of newer generations but I do get like 90% of all improvements. Namely, decent battery life, decent screen, light weight, thinness (though I really couldn't care less about that) and above all, future proofing. Not only I can swap the current M.2 SATA drive for an NVMe down the line, but I can also upgrade to WiFi 6E; all with stock parts. I'll be still running Windows 7 until I really feel forced to switch, which doesn't feel like it will happen any time soon. And when that finally happens, my machine will run Windows 10 just fine. And when M$ also pulls the plug on Windows 10, then I'll be able to run Windows 11 (Yuck). I'm sorry but I remain skeptical of Linux coming to save the world...
So I'm in the process of refurbishing a bunch of X1C4 that I've got for about $200 each (with small issues such as crackings and the like). I've concluded that the top model (i7 6600U, 16GB of RAM and WQHD panel) is not really that far from what's available now. Though, to be honest, is not a path I would recommend to other people. As much as I like my X1s, they are high maintenance, with parts being scarce and expensive, and not very long lasting (fragile). I'm sure I'd be much happier with a T25, or at least a T470, but I'm not really into the mood of dumping all this and starting over again.
I'd gladly spend my time with other forum members organizing the resurrection of the classic Thinkpad (I already insinuated it with my post on the "ThickPad") but I'm just tired of fighting windmills.
Flat batteries aren't that bad. The one in my X301, for example, is 13 years old already and still holds a decent charge.
Difference is that, just like it happens with phones, they've been quietly adding quick charging "features" that degrade batteries much faster. I've avoided trashing my phone's battery by charging it with a regular charger (not quick charge) and leave it overnight, but I've not found a way to do the same with laptops. If you own a more recent model, you're charging the battery way too fast and killing it quickly in the process. It doesn't help that they've been replacing regular cells with high voltage ones, which are also prone to quick degradation.
I told the whole issue with batteries to my sister and she went "OMG, I always thought quick charging was best". She now knows how easy is to fool the market into its own demise.
X301: SU9600 | 8GB | 1TB | WXGA+
X1C5: 7600U | 16GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C9: 1145G7 | 16GB | 1TB | WUXGA | WWAN
X1Y8: 1365U | 32GB | 1TB | WUXGA
P14s G1 AMD: 4750U | 32GB | 1TB | PG FHD Touch
T14 G2: 1145G7 | 32GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C5: 7600U | 16GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C9: 1145G7 | 16GB | 1TB | WUXGA | WWAN
X1Y8: 1365U | 32GB | 1TB | WUXGA
P14s G1 AMD: 4750U | 32GB | 1TB | PG FHD Touch
T14 G2: 1145G7 | 32GB | 1TB | FHD
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
The only two laptops I've bought new were my R60 and X220. I just find better value going used or refurbed. Had I bought my current notebook new in 2018 it probably could have cost twice what I paid for it on eBay. There was little practical difference since the one I bought looked new.
ThinkPad L14 - 2.1GHz Ryzen 4650U | 16GB | 256GB | 14" FHD | Win11P
ProBook 470 G5 - 1.6GHz Core i5 | 16GB | 2.2TB | 17" FHD | Mint
ProBook 470 G5 - 1.6GHz Core i5 | 16GB | 2.2TB | 17" FHD | Mint
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Regarding new laptops and my 7-row keyboard obsession:
The oldest laptop in my collection that I still find usable for daily work is the X220. It is over 10 years old at this point. I expect that the Thinkpad 25 (which is 4+ years old, but based on 5-year old technology) will be usable for ~5 more years. I could always try to do the "T480 in Thinkpad 25 shell" to extend its usable life even further.
If I need a more powerful PC, I can use a desktop. They are easier and cheaper to obtain and upgrade.
In the future, I may need a more powerful laptop, and there will be no 7-row offerings at all. In this case I can buy any machine; it doesn't have to be a Thinkpad.
The oldest laptop in my collection that I still find usable for daily work is the X220. It is over 10 years old at this point. I expect that the Thinkpad 25 (which is 4+ years old, but based on 5-year old technology) will be usable for ~5 more years. I could always try to do the "T480 in Thinkpad 25 shell" to extend its usable life even further.
If I need a more powerful PC, I can use a desktop. They are easier and cheaper to obtain and upgrade.
In the future, I may need a more powerful laptop, and there will be no 7-row offerings at all. In this case I can buy any machine; it doesn't have to be a Thinkpad.
Thinkpad 25 (20K7), T490 (20N3), Yoga 14 (20FY), T430s (IPS FHD + Classic Keyboard), X220 4291-4BG
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
X61 7673-V2V, T60 2007-QPG, T42 2373-F7G, X32 (IPS Screen), A31p w/ Ultrabay Numpad
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Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Xue Yao/Xyte.ch X2100 has 7 row keyboard, but the price is over roof, 20mil IDR or 1750 SGD for bar bone... he ship it world wide. well, I just hope the price droping, and it has 10 gen intel CPU, good battery life and open source board firmware code. I just hope the market for 7 row keyboard explode and make Lenovo think twice... It really are a very novel keyboard, and useable for every situation... I can't let go my X220 tbf... I really like it... I can't live without it...dr_st wrote: ↑Tue Mar 01, 2022 2:34 amRegarding new laptops and my 7-row keyboard obsession:
The oldest laptop in my collection that I still find usable for daily work is the X220. It is over 10 years old at this point. I expect that the Thinkpad 25 (which is 4+ years old, but based on 5-year old technology) will be usable for ~5 more years. I could always try to do the "T480 in Thinkpad 25 shell" to extend its usable life even further.
If I need a more powerful PC, I can use a desktop. They are easier and cheaper to obtain and upgrade.
In the future, I may need a more powerful laptop, and there will be no 7-row offerings at all. In this case I can buy any machine; it doesn't have to be a Thinkpad.
X220 with Win 10 21H2 Fedora 38 XFCE 4.18 (official spins)
i7-2640m, disabled Hyper Thread, Temp Drop on average 10*C, all core activated, need KVM for Windows
12gb RAM (enough for now, DDR3L)
480 Kingston Fake SSD
64gb Samsung SD Card
Recently rolled back to Windows 7 from Win 10 21H2. Sad
i7-2640m, disabled Hyper Thread, Temp Drop on average 10*C, all core activated, need KVM for Windows
12gb RAM (enough for now, DDR3L)
480 Kingston Fake SSD
64gb Samsung SD Card
Recently rolled back to Windows 7 from Win 10 21H2. Sad
Re: Article: »How and why I stopped buying new laptops«
Let's not be such cheapskates. It costs a lot to develop a motherboard. For around $1,300, that's not expensive at all.
X301: SU9600 | 8GB | 1TB | WXGA+
X1C5: 7600U | 16GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C9: 1145G7 | 16GB | 1TB | WUXGA | WWAN
X1Y8: 1365U | 32GB | 1TB | WUXGA
P14s G1 AMD: 4750U | 32GB | 1TB | PG FHD Touch
T14 G2: 1145G7 | 32GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C5: 7600U | 16GB | 1TB | FHD
X1C9: 1145G7 | 16GB | 1TB | WUXGA | WWAN
X1Y8: 1365U | 32GB | 1TB | WUXGA
P14s G1 AMD: 4750U | 32GB | 1TB | PG FHD Touch
T14 G2: 1145G7 | 32GB | 1TB | FHD
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