ThinkPad for Win 7 and Win XP?

[McQuad]

I've been away from PCs for over a dozen years now, so please keep that in mind.

We presently have a need for two powerful old utilities: one was written for Win 7 and the other was written for Win XP. I've been reading conflicting reports about which ThinkPad is the latest that operated well via Win 7 - and running a Win XP virtual machine (VM) via the same ThinkPad. I've also read confusing information about ThinkPads with dual boot Win 7 and Win XP operating systems.

The bottom line for us is that the utilities I mentioned need to work with external drives and, quite frankly, SATA for an SSD would be very nice as well ... but I simply haven't kept up with the development of PC architecture, so I have no idea if Win XP, for example, was ever "updated" for SATA. If anyone on the ThinkPad boards would care share their thoughts about how something like this might be approached, I would be very grateful for your words.

Thank you for the help.

[RealBlackStuff]

It would be helpful if you tell us WHICH utilities you want to use on WHICH Thinkpads.
I'm still running W7-Pro 64-bit on my (2014) T440p and (2015) X250 and (2016) M900 Tiny.
Never bothered with any VM though.
Until recently I used a T23 with XP, but that machine has been sold.

[McQuad]

The utilities I mentioned are archaic multichannel audio media authoring packages that are no longer written or supported.

As I haven't touched a PC of any kind in over a dozen years, I really have no idea about which ThinkPads can be used for what. The Lenovo ThinkPad PC laptop has been recommended for general build quality, so that's why I'm here asking about a machine that might operate well with Win 7 and Win XP.

[axur-delmeria]

T61/X61 would be my pick, T60/X60 in a pinch.

[TPFanatic]

Win 7 is supported on thinkpads up to Intel 6th Gen Core processors. It is a major PITA to install on computers newer than that.

Win XP is supported up to Intel 3rd Gen Core processors.

XP has to be installed in "AHCI Compatability" mode, set in BIOS, then once installed you can install the laptop's SATA controller driver then update XP's registry to use "AHCI" mode, and set it back in BIOS. Honestly I don't think it's worth the hassle, you can just run it in Compatibility mode forever and it'll be fine.

Steps

Go into the registry using regedit and change each of the "start" values in the registry keys below from 3 to 0 and this will allow you to change between the different modes by just changing the option in your bios each time you reboot.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\pciide

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\msahci

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStorV

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\servic es\iaStor

That said, Professional editions of Windows 7 can use Microsoft's "Windows XP Mode" virtual machine.

https://archive.org/details/windows-xp-mode_20200907

For any particular Thinkpad model that will run both or either OS perfectly, anything from 2006-2012. 7 is good up to machines from 2016 or so but it gets tough to install as they decontent optical drives and move to USB 3 protocols not natively supported by 7. Newer will be faster, lighter, and more efficient.

The best Thinkpad models are generally the T series (XP and 7: T60, T61, T400 or T500, T410 or T510, T420 or T520, T430 or T530, and for 7 only: T440p or T540p, T450 or T550, T460 or T560), try to get one without dedicated graphics, and be prepared to do a thermal repaste on any old laptop.

[McQuad]

For any particular Thinkpad model that will run both or either OS perfectly, anything from 2006-2012. 7 is good up to machines from 2016 or so but it gets tough to install as they decontent optical drives and move to USB 3 protocols not natively supported by 7. Newer will be faster, lighter, and more efficient.

The best Thinkpad models are generally the T series (XP and 7: T60, T61, T400 or T500, T410 or T510, T420 or T520, T430 or T530, and for 7 only: T440p or T540p, T450 or T550, T460 or T560), try to get one without dedicated graphics, and be prepared to do a thermal repaste on any old laptop.

This is a terrific post, TPF! I will give it's due diligence as soon as I get some free computer time, but, in the meantime, I'd like to ask you to clarify the bolded bit in the quote. When you write, "...thermal repaste...," do you mean the thermal paste between the CPU itself and the CPU heat sink? I recall doing this ... way back ... in my PC building days, but I wanted to make sure that's what you're referring to.

[TPFanatic]

Yes that's correct. Lenovo's factory paste is not good, I've had to replace it on most of my secondhand ThinkPads. I personally like Arctic MX-6, it spreads nicely with the tube nozzle and is not electrically conductive. Grizzly Kryonaut is a another very popular aftermarket favorite here. Social media also now recommends the Honeywell PTM7950 thermal pad as a substitute for thermal paste.

To add more to the Win 7 topic, Lenovo's EOL portal still provides all their drivers for the old Windows 7 ThinkPads. That's here: https://download.lenovo.com/eol/index.html

I've also been appreciating archive.org for downloading old Microsoft softwares that they no longer host. There's also multiple downloads for Lenovo recovery image sets for those old ThinkPads for installing an OEM Preload of Windows 7, which is the ideal way to activate a machine with built-in licensing, aka the SLIC 2.1 table in the BIOS.

On licensing I must mention that most T400-T500 and all older ThinkPads do not have SLIC 2.1 since Windows 7 did not yet exist. It can generally be "added" to the laptop by flashing a modified BIOS, which is basically counterfeiting Windows. If it's of concern, best aim for a machine new enough to be OEM licensed for 7.

[McQuad]

That said, Professional editions of Windows 7 can use Microsoft's "Windows XP Mode" virtual machine.

https://archive.org/details/windows-xp-mode_20200907

For any particular Thinkpad model that will run both or either OS perfectly, anything from 2006-2012. 7 is good up to machines from 2016 or so but it gets tough to install as they decontent optical drives and move to USB 3 protocols not natively supported by 7. Newer will be faster, lighter, and more efficient.

After reading your post, TPFanatic, it would seem that the bit about the merits of newer machines - in bolded text (above) - makes pretty good sense. We own a copy of Win 7 Pro, so your words about "Windows XP Mode" are also very interesting. You also mentioned that "7 is good up to machines from 2016 or so..." Does this mean that the use of Windows XP Mode is an option for ThinkPads up the the Intel 6th Gen "Sky Lake" models? If so, which "newer" ThinkPad would you be looking for?

[RealBlackStuff]

For laptop CPUs it is recommended to do a surface spread of thermal paste (or use the above pads).
for a how-to, see either one of these:
http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth ... d_v1.1.pdf
https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/How+to+App ... +Paste/744

[TPFanatic]

According to here the requirements for XP Mode are very lean. https://superuser.com/questions/344639/ ... -requireme

It's just a Virtual XP in a Virtual PC VM, designed by Microsoft for Windows 7 SP1 Pro and better editions. So I think it'll just work in any machine running 7 SP1 Pro. I personally used it on old laptop from 2008 running 7 SP1 Pro x64 in order to run both some XP-only and 16-bit programs.

If you already have a Windows 7 PC, give XP Mode a shot!

Although buying a cheap old ThinkPad is always fun, I wonder why not just do it with VMs and save money? Contemporary PC is certainly capable of doing VMs.

Personally the newest Thinkpad I have good experience with Windows 7 is the Ivy Bridge generation X230/T430/T530/W530. I tried Windows 7 on P71 (7th gen, unsupported) and S1 Yogas (4th and 6th Gen, technically supported, but no optical drives and poor USB support) and it was not as pleasant. Based only on my personal experience I would say buy cheapest T430 or T530 with an optical drive, install Windows 7 Pro and XP Mode, and enjoy.

Edit : here's an archive for Microsoft's USB installer tool for windows 7. Microsoft no longer hosts the download. https://archive.org/details/windows-7-u ... ller-en-us It can create a USB installer of Windows 7, I believe it has to be run from an existing Windows 7 PC.

Here you can find a Mirror for Gigabytes WindowsImageTool which can inject USB 3 drivers into a Windows 7 USB installer. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/thre ... ol.249384/ This may help for installing 7 on the newer no-optical drive laptops like T450,T460.

[McQuad]

According to here the requirements for XP Mode are very lean. https://superuser.com/questions/344639/ ... -requireme

It's just a Virtual XP in a Virtual PC VM, designed by Microsoft for Windows 7 SP1 Pro and better editions. So I think it'll just work in any machine running 7 SP1 Pro. I personally used it on old laptop from 2008 running 7 SP1 Pro x64 in order to run both some XP-only and 16-bit programs.

If you already have a Windows 7 PC, give XP Mode a shot!

Although buying a cheap old ThinkPad is always fun, I wonder why not just do it with VMs and save money? Contemporary PC is certainly capable of doing VMs.

@TPFanatic .....

I'm reticent about it, but I'm a longtime MacBook Pro user...

In other words, we don't have a PC of any kind, so, unless I'm missing something [which is pretty likely I admit], I need a PC, right? In addition to having a pretty serious space problem [as in we need a laptop], one of the old software utilities that we would like to revive is known to work via Win 7 - and the other is known to work via Win XP - my present thinking is the newest Win 7 ThinkPad I can find and a Win XP VM. Do I seem to have the basics covered?

By the way, would you mind educating an old Mac user ... What is a "FrankenPad"?

[RealBlackStuff]

A FrankenPad is a Thinkpad of one type, with the innards of another one.
The most popular is the T601, which is a 15" T60 with the motherboard of a 14.1" T61.
More info here: https://theboardroom.info/franken_pad.html

We have a Forum member PiZzA EnGiNeEr who sells all sorts of Thinkpads.
Best of all (for you): he is located right in Cambridge, MA.
You can send him a PM message here

[axur-delmeria]

A FrankenPad is a "Frankenstein Thinkpad" made from parts of different but compatible Thinkpad models.

IIRC the first Frankenpads were T40/T41/T42's that were repaired by replacing the malfunctioning system board with one taken from the R50/R51, which were interchangeable with the T40 series.

Since then, more Frankenpads have appeared, like the T601 -- a T60 15" chassis with IPS screen with the system board of a T61 14.1" (non-widescreen) inside. There's also the X601, which is an X61 board in an X60 chassis, or the X225 (X230 board in X220 chassis).

[MikalE]

I ran a dual drive, dual boot T520 with Win XP Pro64 and Windows 7 Pro for quite awhile until upgrading to Windows 11.

The T520 is a good machine for your needs.

[McQuad]

I ran a dual drive, dual boot T520 with Win XP Pro64 and Windows 7 Pro for quite awhile until upgrading to Windows 11.

The T520 is a good machine for your needs.

After the 32-bit XP and Win 7 projects are completed, naturally, I'd like to end up with a machine that can handle a modern 64-bit OS. My reading is telling me that the T520 is a 2011 ThinkPad which was available with the same Intel 64-bit Core-i7 2820QM 2.3 Ghz "Sandy Bridge" CPU that [still] powers our 2011 MacBook Pro 17 (MBP 17).

It's a long story, but our MBP 17 gave us great service for many years until, very suddenly, the dedicated GPU on the motherboard, an Asus Radeon HD 6750M, decided to "end it all," which left us with a Pepto Bismol display ... that, quite frankly, made me crave a bottle of the stuff. Anyway, the solution was a series of console commands that said "Adios" to the dedicated GPU and, more importantly, "Hola" to the Intel HD Graphics 3000 GPU that's integrated into the i7 CPU. In short, this was a disaster that taught me - the hard way - that there are real upsides to integrated graphics, so seeing that the T520 came with this CPU really caught my attention.

I've never run a "dual drive" setup in any machine and the closest I've come to a dual-boot setup was when I ran a 32-bit version of Win 7 via the BootCamp utility in Mac OS X (circa 2012). Would you kindly elaborate on how you booted to two separate drives? Was it a matter of making a cable switch when you wanted to use the "other" OS/HDD in your machine?

After being thoroughly confused by the FrankenPad concept, it is very refreshing to read a post like this one.

[RealBlackStuff]

On Thinkpads that can have more than 1 drive (HDD or SSD), you use function key F12 at startup to select which drive you want to boot from.
T520 can have THREE drives:
- first 2.5" drive in the main bay
- second 2.5" drive in an adapter in the Ultrabay (instead of the CD-drive)
- third (mSATA) drive in the WWAN-slot.

PS: the same applies to the 14" T420 (T520 is 15.6").

[McQuad]

Using Coreboot with a T520 you could opt for an Ivy-Bridge CPU and the most powerful would be a Core i7-3940XM (w/o Coreboot you're limited to SB so a Core i7-2960XM). It would honestly be easier to get a T530 so you can skip the Coreboot requirement of a T520 and yes people have gotten higher than 3.7GHz:

https://www.reddit.com/r/thinkpad/comme ... thinkpads/

While I wouldn't advise doing it with a T430 I have been able to get my Core i7-3940XM up to 3.6GHz across all cores and am hoping to reach 4GHz or higher before the year is up (in the secondary T430, main has a 3632QM).

I was just reading the quote (above) about possible CPU swaps for the T520 ThinkPad. Apparently, something called "coreboot" offers the ability to add faster CPUs to the T520 ... but the bit that really caught my attention is what I've featured in blue.

Can you do all of the things discussed in this thread, regarding the T520, with a (newer) T530? As you can read in Posts 14 thru 16, dual-booting XP and Win 7, as well as installing (3) drives, seem to be realistic possibilities with the 2011 T520. The T530, on the other hand, is a 2012 machine, so, naturally, I'd appreciate knowing if it offers the same upgrade possibilities as the older T520.

Thank you for the help.

[TPFanatic]

T530 can also do 3 drives. And after you are done with XP and 7 I attest that it is an excellent machine for Windows 10. I have the latest Windows 10 installed on a W530 (workstation version of T530) and it works great. T530 is not yet "End Of Life" on Lenovo's page and is one of the oldest Thinkpads with OEM drivers for Windows 10.

[RealBlackStuff]

If you go for a T520/W520 or T530/W530, they can easily be upgraded to an IPS FHD screen, see https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=131695
(provided you can find such a screen).

Another difference between xx20 and xx30 is the keyboard; 7-row on xx20, 6-row on xx30 with even a backlight option.

You can get illustrated Hardware Maintenance Manuals for Thinkpads, click on the HMM link at the top of the webpage.
Up till and including xx20 models, they also contain the partslist.
From xx30 onward parts are in a separate PDF, often called frubom or fru_bom.
From xx80 onward, Lenono has gone really bonkers and put those parts in an Excel spreadshit.

[TPFanatic]

If you go for a T520/W520 or T530/W530, they can easily be upgraded to an IPS FHD screen, see https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.php?t=131695
(provided you can find such a screen).

I have done IPS upgrades on T520/T530/W530 using the readily-obtainable eDP converters and displays. In my opinion it is not at all easy.

[RealBlackStuff]

If you read on in that link, then you'll find a ready-to-pop-in screen!
https://forum.thinkpads.com/viewtopic.p ... 58#p857058

[TPFanatic]

It's a TN.

[n2ri]

Im currently trying to do this with a W520. as I have a T61 with 1tb hdd running winXP 32bit SP3 has middlton BIOS but just not up to speed etc for browsing and current aps online so also using a W500 with 2TB SSD running win7 ultimate 64bit. both units have max ram and both can dock in same adv dock 2503 but the 1tb BU ext HDD is maxed and T61 wont see 2tb HDD in ultrabay caddy. the W500 does great online etc but all W500 units have over heat issues causing intermittent display fails seems as they were not designed to handle the increased heat plus lenovo installed screens in cabinet air holes restricting air flow more than the T61 cabinet and current web use combined with data storage issues and swapping between the 2 to use all my older accs and printers that cant run on win7 or 64bit plus no AV support for win XP 32bit the last 2 years is main reason for moving both systems to a W520 plus I refuse to use any newer MS OS as they have become dummy terminal OS cloud based and loaded with malicious Trojan viruses since win10 came out. and Linux is still at win 3.1 level for user friendly and ap compatibility. I hate cloud based PC. I want to keep my data on MY PC and be able to use it offline at will. after all its called PC meaning personal computer. NOT public computer that you need permission to access from 3rd party. I dont like having to use over twice the power of the other 2 Thinkpads making the adv dock obsolete etc. but the W520 with color balance is the most advanced Thinkpad available b4 Lenovo officially crashed the IBM reputation for excellence in laptops just to compete with Aldis $300 junk. I have every acc needed to work with these 3 models but having trouble moving data from T61 then trying to learn how to do the duel boot stuff. I plan to move the SSD from W500 to W520 then incorporate the win XP 32bit from T61 to it and use a 2tb HDD as archive/BU in the W520 ultrabay for all the T61 data and onward. I have watched all youtubes on thinkpads for this switch and compared other choices including W700/701 series and saw the W520 is best. T series was great 20 years ago but the W series is improved for road warrior type abuse making an true mobile office. I also have several Canon BJC-55/85 printers as they were perfect for this use also wish they kept making them. plus many other accs most of which stay on desktop with docking stations. any help in my endeavor is greatly appreciated.