EZServ will not replace faulty fan

[keithh]

We bought a couple of T41ps from our gracious host Bill a couple of years ago, and they have been working splendidly. Last week, the fan in one of the ThinkPads died (boot up fan error), and I thought, "no problem, IBM has good service", and sent it in for depot repair.

When my wife called them yesterday to obtain a status update, she was informed the repair has been put on hold because the technician found some "brown substance" on the internal components except the hard disk, and they will not replace the fan unless I agree to pay them $900 to replace the motherboard, optical drive, Bluetooth card, etc., including the keyboard and the palm rest!

First, I am sure no coffee had been spilt on it, so I have no idea what this mysterious brown substance they claim to be there comes from. In fact I took off the keyboard and checked the fan before deciding to send it in, and the interior looked cleaner than I thought it would, and I can say for certain there was no brown substance inside at the time. The computer was running perfectly fine.

Over the past two days, we have spoken with half a dozen representatives, and they insist there is spill damage (and offered to produce photographic evidence, which I am still awaiting) and that it is irrelevant whether there is any spill damage on the fan itself as it is their policy not to perform "partial repairs" since even if the motherboard etc, are still in working condition, "they will fail some time in the future". But they would not agree to even test it and see whether the computer works. For all I know, it could be their technician who spilt coffee into it.

I have a nagging suspicion that even after several "escalations", we are still being bumped around by the same group of people, possibly all Solectron employees sitting within arm's reach of each other. In my last call with them, when I asked to speak with her supervisor, she gave me a (800) number. When I called it, it was her who picked up the phone. At that point I expressed my wish to contact her supervisor by email instead, for now I think we need to do everything in writing. The request she adamantly refused.

I asked her whether it is their policy that communications with customers can only be conducted through the telephone, and she went on about how their Dispute Resolution policy is for me to leave a message in his voice mailbox, and he will call me back in 3-5 business days.

By then I realised dealing with this group of people is hopeless, and searching through this forum reveals several other "nightmare" stories when it comes to dealing with EZServ. All I want them to do is to replace the fan that failed, and send the computer back.

Has anyone else experienced such torment to have a component as simple as the fan replaced?

Is there a phone number or email address I can use to reach the people at IBM responsible for overseeing warranty repairs? When I called the general inquiries number, I was sent to a small sales office in Phoenix. That guy was sympathetic, but he could not point me in the right direction, either.

I am aware of the ThinkPad Protection program, but at this moment I am afraid it is a moot point.

[tfflivemb2]

If the fan itself has died, then I would suggest replacing the fan yourself and avoid the headache, if they refuse to budge. Its not like the systemboard has died. The fans are pretty cheap.

Just so that you understand...if there appears to be spill damage and they STILL replace the fan, then they would be worried that should something else go wrong, they could be liable since they replace a component.

[cmarti]

Here is a cheap one.

MODERATOR EDIT: Modified post to make for easier viewing, without scrolling.

[keithh]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I agree that would be the best way to solve the problem, but unfortunately I am currently overseas and she is not as handy with computers. On top of that, she is now raging mad at IBM and anything IBM. :/

[DIGITALgimpus]

I have a feeling that's an easy way out they use on occasion. There have been a few similar reports of this. Very sad.

I'd second the suggestion of either doing it yourself, or finding someone local who can do it for you/your wife. IMHO that's your best bet.

[BillMorrow]

This story of finding a brown substance or some corrosion or SOMETHING on some part seems to be a story i keep hearing more frequently..
i own this place so i can call easy serve a bunch of f--king [censored]----s..!
they seem to find something that will make them more $$ than with a standard warranty repair..

you can do nothing except go to court and if it were me i sure would..

typically, venu runs either:
where the contract was entered into,
where the defendant is located,
or
where the loss took place.. (which is where you live, i think)

i am SO [censored] TIRED of hearing this same story i want to just weep..

at one time, ezserve fixed anything and returned your thinkpad before you realized it was gone..
(i had a 755CD that went in so tired, they just sent me a new refurbished one)

and so it goes..
the reputation is withering away with this type of story..

/END mind dump

its late (or early) so don't expect too much in the way of brilliant writing..

[Phantom Gremlin]

Would it be better to pay for on-site repair when purchasing?

On the other hand, don't the on-site repairmen sometimes say they must return to depot anyway?

Also on-site doesn't help people in exotic locations.

[Loof]

This illustrates why you should pay for the on-site warranty. It is more expensive, but worth it. We have a fleet of over 1000 ThinkPads -- all with on-site warranties -- and my experience is that about 20% of the time EZSERV will deny us on one thing or another, which is why we don't use EZSERV very often. But if you have the on-site warranty and can get the technician to come to you, they are usually very busy and don't have time to search for spill damage to negate the warranty. They simply want to swap out the part and get back on the road to the next customer. Only twice, in 7 years of dealing with on-site technicians, have they insisted on sending the ThinkPad into EZSERV.

Loof

[DIGITALgimpus]

What Bill said!

I do think they are doing this to cut costs. Just to many reports of this now for me to believe people are lying.

[BillMorrow]

Would it be better to pay for on-site repair when purchasing?

On the other hand, don't the on-site repairmen sometimes say they must return to depot anyway?

Also on-site doesn't help people in exotic locations.

YES..!

[dsigma6]

wait a second...did i read that they wont replace just one faulty component? or was this because of the brown substance? now im thinking i cant send my thinkpad in for the inverter and HD because its not enough wrong with it?

ahh!

[keithh]

In reply to dsigma6's post, my understanding is, yes, they should (or at least they are obligated to) replace just one faulty component, and we are upset because they are refusing to do this.

I believe what they mean by "partial repair" is, say you have a broken inverter and a motherboard, they will not repair the inverter alone because the computer would not be functional without a working motherboard as well.

But in this case, when we checked the fan before sending it in, we did not see any of the purported brown substance inside the machine. Further, we know the rest of the machine worked before sending it in. When we brought this up to EZServ, their response was "even if the motherboard is working now, it is going to fail in the future and you will just have to send it in again, we don't do partial repairs".

This is ludicrous. Everything will eventually fail. If there really is spill damage on the motherboard, and it fails in 3 months' time, we would deal with it then. But here, they want us to pay for something today that as far as I know, is neither damaged nor failing.

My advice to dsigma6 would be, for the hard disk, ask for a replacement to be sent out to you, so you can replace it yourself and send the old one back, as it is a customer-replaceable part. For the inverter, either purchase onsite service, or have it repaired at a local authorized repair center. EZServ depot service just isn't worth the hassle.

At the same time, I feel it is unfortunate that many of us on the forum feel compelled to advise others to purchase onsite warranty and ThinkPad Protection as "workarounds". We pay a premium for ThinkPads to begin with, and we have the right to expect reasonable warranty service. Why do we have to pay another $500 to get the service that we should already be getting?

[keithh]

An update about the situation if I may.

Following an advice from a previous "EZServ nightmare" thread, I sent an email to IBM through the <A HREF="http://http://www.ibm.com/ibm/sjp/">"Email Sam Palisamo" page</A>, for it appears there is no way to have the situation resolved without involving someone outside of EZServ at Memphis, Tennesse. The staff there is eager to act as judge and jury, and whenever we asked to have the case escalated, I am under the impression that we are being passed between the same group of people.

This afternoon, I received an email from a Program Manager in the Executive Customer Relations Management Team of Lenovo International. I would like to compliment Lenovo/IBM for their quick response. We are going to call him tomorrow to discuss the issue further.

I think this is one of the dangers when a company outsources their warranty operations to some third party. The warranty is made between IBM/Lenovo and the customers. When they are not satisfied by the warranty service they are receiving, what happens? IBM/Lenovo's reputation take a hit, and the customers stop purchasing from IBM/Lenovo. How about Solectron? It doesn't affect them much, as long as they can convince IBM/Lenovo they are cheaper than others to secure the outsourcing contract when it is up for renewal.

Dissatisfied customers affect IBM/Lenovo's reputation and bottomline much more so than Solectron's. It is not surprising at all that Solectron (or whatever corporate entities or groups of people the service had be subcontracted out to) would take advantage of the situation, provide the minimum level of service they can get away with, and perhaps even "encourage" the customers to pay for more service than they actually need.

Consider this hypothetical situation: if they replace a broken fan and send it back, they have generated perhaps $40 in revenue, billable to IBM/Lenovo. Now if they can convince a customer to replace pretty much all the internal components of a ThinkPad, that is a $900 job, billable to the customer.

And while they have the machine hostage, many customers are not that difficult to persuade. What if the customer wouldn't budge? Well, the worst that can happen is they will send the machine back to the customer, who will have to get it repaired elsewhere at their own cost, and swear he will never buy from IBM/Lenovo again. Cost to Solectron? Nothing.

I think all of us here can agree IBM/Lenovo builds the best notebook computers bar none, but that would be all for nought if they don't keep a closer eye on how Solectron is doing to Lenovo/IBM's customers.

[dsigma6]

im looking forwar to what comes out of your conversation tomorrow.

im really taken back that this warranty i just bought seems worthless now. someone else said they used it and it was a great deal, now this conflicting information...

i guess i send it in and see what happens, they wont charge you until you OK it right?

[keithh]

dsigma6, a few days ago I would have agreed with you that the depot warranty service is a great deal. We have had hard disks and keyboards replaced with the minimum of hassles.

At the moment I am inclined to believe they are generally good with sending out customer-replaceable parts, but when you have to send your computer to their Memphis, TN facility, that is quite another matter.

Perhaps Bill or someone else would know whether this is because IBM/Lenovo handle customer-replacement parts requests inhouse still?

I do not want anyone to stop buying ThinkPads because of Solectron's business practices. I am usually the part of silent majority who would just think, "fine, if this is how you are treating your customers, I'll take my money elsewhere". But in this case, I suspect IBM/Lenovo do not know what Solectron is doing to their customers, and they need to be aware of the magnitude of damage Solectron is doing to their reputation and bottomline.

No, they are not charging anything without the customers' approvals, although I am not clear about whether there will be an "inspection fee" down the line.

[JHEM]

At the moment I am inclined to believe they are generally good with sending out customer-replaceable parts, but when you have to send your computer to their Memphis, TN facility, that is quite another matter.

Just so we have both sides of the take on Solectron, my 2373-GEU T41p is enroute home to me after a complete motherboard replacement under warranty.

It would have been back yesterday but I didn't get the box out Monday as I had hoped.

I'll report on the results of the repair process upon receipt tomorrow.

Regards,

James

[JPOESQ]

At the moment I am inclined to believe they are generally good with sending out customer-replaceable parts, but when you have to send your computer to their Memphis, TN facility, that is quite another matter.

Just so we have both sides of the take on Solectron, my 2373-GEU T41p is enroute home to me after a complete motherboard replacement under warranty.

It would have been back yesterday but I didn't get the box out Monday as I had hoped.

I'll report on the results of the repair process upon receipt tomorrow.

Regards,

James

I hope that you have better luck than I had. My T41p system board failed and I too sent it to the depot for repair. The computer came back, and when I booted up it started recognizing new hardware (video and network controller). I poked around and found out that I had USB 1.0 instead of 2.0, a 10/100 network controller, and 64M of video memory - hey, that's not a T41p!

Well, it turns out that they put the wrong system board in my computer - from a T30. So, I had to go through hoops getting it replaced, because they wouldn't believe me at first. Finally, I got the case escalated and they agreed to send a tech out to my business to do the repair.

2 days later, the computer was repaired. But, the tech screwed up the keyboard bezel so I called and had one sent to me, and replaced it myself.

The computer worked for 3 weeks, and now the system board has failed. The video memory is bad/intermittent, so the system board needs to be replaced.

I called for repair, told them that I wanted onsite service, and got the case escalated again. That was 2 days ago, no tech has been here, the service call was canceled, and I have spent over 2 hours on the phone talking with 5 reps to try to get this resolved.

Today I called and was told that a tech would come to my business by 5pm. No show, no call, no repair.

[AlphaKilo470]

Well, it turns out that they put the wrong system board in my computer - from a T30.

How the hell do you get a T30 mobo in a T4x? Are the cases similar enough for that or were they just really talented?

[keithh]

John, I am sorry to hear about your experience with EZServ. A T30 system board in a T41p? That's incredible.

Given the sheer volume of machines coming in and out of EZServ, it is perfectly understandable that some mistakes would be made from time to time. Even if they perform 95% of the repairs perfectly, that would probably still add up to hundreds of disgruntled customers a year. I believe the true test of their service would be how the complaints are handled, and how willing they are to rectify their mistakes.

I look forward to hear more from James and John.

[JPOESQ]

Well, it turns out that they put the wrong system board in my computer - from a T30.

How the hell do you get a T30 mobo in a T4x? Are the cases similar enough for that or were they just really talented?

Actually, it must have been a T40 motherboard to have fit in the case. The FRU was one digit off the correct FRU. In any event, it wasn't a T41p.

[JHEM]

Actually, it must have been a T40 motherboard to have fit in the case. The FRU was one digit off the correct FRU. In any event, it wasn't a T41p.

See my report in the T4X Forum WRT my swapped MB.

At least the one I got is a T41!

Regards,

James

[keithh]

An update.

On Friday, we had a conference call with the Program Manager from Executive Customer Relations Management Team of Lenovo International and someone from EZServ. They agreed to put a new fan in and send the machine back, and it should arrive by Tuesday.

I have to point out the two of them are much more reasonable compared to the multitude of telephone representatives whose job appear to be wasting their customers' time. The guy from EZServ explained their policy is to replace everything they think are "compromised". I note this is a carefully-chosen word, compared to "failed" or "failing" the telephone representatives averred. But they have promised to put the fan in and send it back, we did not see the need to press the point.

I will post another update when the machine arrives. Hopefully it will be in working condition, and still has a T41p motherboard inside. If not, we know where John's new motherboard came from!

[keithh]

Another update for anyone interested.

EZServ replaced the fan in the T41p and sent it back to us as promised. With some trepidation we attempted to turn it on... and it works!

But there is one snag. The red channel on the LCD is missing, and everything appears blue. I suspect it is caused by a loose video cable. At any rate, we are going to have them send someone over to fix it under onsite warranty, which they are still trying to instate.

The onsite warranty problem is another story unto itself. We attempted to use the onsite warranty service when the fan started acting up, but we learnt our status of our onsite warranty coverage was lost somewhere between IBM and Lenovo. The staff handling the warranty records at both IBM and Lenovo were courteous, but they were not sure whether it was IBM or Lenovo who should have the records, and it took them a long time to locate it. This is why we had to send the machine to EZServ two weeks ago in the first place. As of today, we have been given to understand the records should be updated in their system in a few days, and we will finally be able to use it.

Needless to say, we would rather not having to send the machine back to EZServ if we don't have to.

[lophiomys]

After you got your TP back, have you actually seen some brown substance
inside, as reported by the repair man? Did EzServe spill coffe over your TP,
or was it just a blunt lie?

[keithh]

The "brown substances" they referred to appear to be dust to me. There was quite a bit of dust inside the computer, but I do not see why it can be a cause for concern. I have seen dustier machines.

The interesting part is, the machine was obviously, and still is, in working condition. According to their telephone representatives, all the internal components except the hard disk had to be replaced due to the presence of these "brown substances", because if they have not failed yet, they are failing. Have they tested it before making such a claim, demanding $900 from their customers and accusing them of causing spill damage?

The only place where there is anything remotely like liquid stains is on the metal plate that forms the bottom of the optical drive bay. It is not near any of the openings. I have no idea how that came about. As they have replaced the faulty fan, I see no more point wasting my time arguing with them.

I would like to point out 90% of the cases handled by EZServ is probably trouble-free, and most people have good experience with them. Until two weeks ago, I was one of them. When the keyboard and the hard disk died, we received replacements on the next day. Techs and telephone reps are people. There are good ones and bad ones. The problem is there appears to be little supervision. IBM/Lenovo would do itself a great service by keeping a closer eye on what Solectron is doing to its customers.[/i]

[christopher_wolf]

Hmm, liquid stains on the optical drive? Probably just discoloration of the sealing tape that the optical drive is partially wrapped in.

Very strange, though...Either they didn't even bother to test the system, or they did and it turned out OK but whoever the tech was didn't want to admit it.