Widescreen T-series Thinkpad coming .... October?

[snife]

I like apples because they are sweet but i enjoy the bitterness of oranges - i really can't decide which one i want.

I don't object to non business features on a notebook, i do watch dvds and a lot of downloaded video but its not my primary purpose for using it. Many of the applications I use work fine on widescreen like adobe and macromedia stuff as I can rearrange my panels but office products (with the exception of excel) just cause me to waste a lot of the pixels available and the majority of websites just look ridiculous on widescreen and high resolution displays which is an issue.

IMHO Dell and Apple are the cause of the brainwashing of the public into wanting widescreen and regrettfully we will be in a situation in several years where 4:3 will not be an option.

[NS]

Don't say i am old fashioned.

I still prefer the classic T60 to widescreen. Pulling all images wide. EEkkkkkk!!! I hate it...!

I didn't mean to say you are old fashioned if you don't like the widescreen model for yourself. What I meant was; you could be old fashioned if you do not want to see anyone with a widescreen T-series ThinkPad anywhere. If someone else having a widescreen T-series ThinkPad would turn your stomach.

No, i will not have it myself but i loved to see how others are using it. Presently, my neighbour is using a wide screen Z series thinkpad.

[mfratt]

And how can you compare a T-series to a Porsche? Tsk, its a Ferrari at least.

I disagree. Ferraris may be the generally more "desirable" car, but Porsche makes the better car *overall.* Ferraris are always in the shop. Expect to spend at least $15,000/yr on maitance. Ever try driving a Ferrari in the snow?

Porsche makes a solid, fast, *reliable* and *practicle* car. If you get an awd model, you can drive it all year round (no promises on the paint job). Not to mention, theyre about 1/2 the price.

If anything, Thinkpads are the Porsche, and Dell XPS's or Alienwares are the Ferraris.

[kstuart]

Without regard to "like" and "dislike", I can't imagine that there will be one 4:3 display on any device in the world in 20 years...

[christopher_wolf]

Without regard to "like" and "dislike", I can't imagine that there will be one 4:3 display on any device in the world in 20 years...

Doomsday scenario...but not quite. There will still be systems with 4:3 up until that point. The question is, will Widescreen still be that popular that far down the line? Methinks not.

[zhenya]

You folks all need to get over yourselves.
Lenovo makes a great machine and the T series is fantastic - but the vast majority of the T60's available for purchase today are still made with 1024x768 resolution screens!! We have 5 year old Dell machines that are running 1600x1200. I just recently tried to purchase a t60 for a coworker. After trying out someone else's 14.1" 1400x1050 T60 for a while, he complained that the text was too small and he was having difficulty reading the screen. I figured, no problem, I'll just get him that resolution in a 15" screen to upsize the pixels a bit. Ha! Try to find a t60 with a 15" 1400x1050 screen that comes out under $2000 including Office and an on-site warranty! I don't think it can be done. IMHO, Lenovo loses a lot more credibility for even offering a 1024x768 screen on their flagship model than they ever will by offering a wide screen version.
Not to mention that my 14" z60t is lighter than the equivalent T60, and fits more comfortably on my lap or on my airline tray.

[christopher_wolf]

Did you take a look through the tabook.pdf that lists all the models available with different configurations? It should be in there.

Also, what is a user doing *complaining*? They get what they get and they should be happy with it. Start them off with good stuff and keep them there for awhile until you feel the whim, err, need to upgrade them; if they are serious about working they will quit whining with what they are given in the first place from which I take it is pretty good to begin with...Alas, that is the nature of a user.

Seriously, though, if he complained that SXGA+ on a 14.1" was too tiny, what is the problem with the XGA T60? At least they *offer* XGA on it, think of what would have happened if they didn't for the person that requested it. Most, if not all, of IBM/Lenovo's Widescreen efforts are probably going to go into the Z Series as you noted.

[AlphaKilo470]

You folks all need to get over yourselves.
Lenovo makes a great machine and the T series is fantastic - but the vast majority of the T60's available for purchase today are still made with 1024x768 resolution screens!!

Have you considered that many people actually want the 14" XGA? My crappy eyesight combined with my need for the smallest practical formfactor really makes the 14" XGA a winner in my book. Still, I do miss the 15" SXGA+ screen of the Vaio I once had for a brief period of time but still, I find the 14" XGA to be a great compromise for my needs vs. my wants.

[zhenya]

Sure, it's fine that they offer it - I think the more options available the better. I do think that it is ridiculous that it appears to be the only resolution offered on 50% or better of the T60 models though. Offering something as an option is very different than making it the defacto standard.

I did use the tabook to try to find him a 15" 1400x1050 model. Yes, they offer a few combinations, but like I said above, the price skyrockets when you want anything other than 1024x768 on the 15" screen. I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous. That would have been fine in 2001, but these days if Lenovo wants to remain competitive, they are going to have to offer better options than that. 1024x768 might have been good for his eyesight, but I won't buy machines with that resolution because we have several proprietarty pieces of software that use that as their minimum resolution. I was able to find something else that suited him, but the point is - we're moving to Thinkpads from Dell - and this was something we never even had to consider when purchasing a Dell.

CW, I don't think that he was whining - we don't have that kind of work environment. He was genuinely concerned that he might have trouble reading the screen that he was going to be spending 40+ hours per week looking at. Part of my job is to make computing life easier for our users - not demand from up on high that they be happy with what they get.

[christopher_wolf]

CW, I don't think that he was whining - we don't have that kind of work environment. He was genuinely concerned that he might have trouble reading the screen that he was going to be spending 40+ hours per week looking at. Part of my job is to make computing life easier for our users - not demand from up on high that they be happy with what they get.

*snickers*

OK, OK...Doing it the hard way has its merits too.

I guess I had always viewed it as making sure the networks and systems run fine and are available 24/7, such statements rarely say anything about users. Generally, left alone, a network runs just fine...Now when somebody starts using it, *that* is where the trouble always starts. In severe cases, I recommend upgrading the user peripherals!

[AlphaKilo470]

Well, with that thought in mind Chris, I have never seen a computer function as smoothly and flawlessly as when in the off position. I also have to say, in a semi-related note, that ever since my watch battery died, the ol' Folex has been accurate twice per day.

[snife]

Sure, it's fine that they offer it - I think the more options available the better. I do think that it is ridiculous that it appears to be the only resolution offered on 50% or better of the T60 models though. Offering something as an option is very different than making it the defacto standard.

I did use the tabook to try to find him a 15" 1400x1050 model. Yes, they offer a few combinations, but like I said above, the price skyrockets when you want anything other than 1024x768 on the 15" screen. I'm sorry, that's just ridiculous. That would have been fine in 2001, but these days if Lenovo wants to remain competitive, they are going to have to offer better options than that. 1024x768 might have been good for his eyesight, but I won't buy machines with that resolution because we have several proprietarty pieces of software that use that as their minimum resolution. I was able to find something else that suited him, but the point is - we're moving to Thinkpads from Dell - and this was something we never even had to consider when purchasing a Dell.

CW, I don't think that he was whining - we don't have that kind of work environment. He was genuinely concerned that he might have trouble reading the screen that he was going to be spending 40+ hours per week looking at. Part of my job is to make computing life easier for our users - not demand from up on high that they be happy with what they get.

XGA resolution is still by far the most popular resolution on ThinkPads so Lenovo are just reflecting this in the models they offer to give users what they want.

15" XGA screens are the cheapest for Lenovo to buy so this is why these models cost much less than other configurations. Your making the switch from Dells to ThinkPads so I assume you understand that ThinkPads are better than Dells so I do not think it is fair to compare the 2 on price (yes I am a Dell basher but it is still true)

[zhenya]

XGA resolution is still by far the most popular resolution on ThinkPads so Lenovo are just reflecting this in the models they offer to give users what they want.

15" XGA screens are the cheapest for Lenovo to buy so this is why these models cost much less than other configurations. Your making the switch from Dells to ThinkPads so I assume you understand that ThinkPads are better than Dells so I do not think it is fair to compare the 2 on price (yes I am a Dell basher but it is still true)

Or is it that most users end up with XGA screens because that is the bulk of what Lenovo offers? (For example - of 47 T60's between $1500 and $2000 on cdw.com right now 33 have XGA screens!) With the exception of those who need XGA for their vision's sake, I'm skeptical you would find many others who would willingly choose an XGA screen.

Believe me, I am switching to Lenovo because I hate Dell build quality and design, but I am comparing apples to apples here. Dell doesn't even offer XGA on most of their models - and a Thinkpad is already more expensive even before you try to upgrade the screen. Dell also offers the ability to choose any screen you want, for not a significant amount more money - typically about $70 to go up one level and $150 to upgrade to their best screen. I find it hard to believe that it costs Lenovo significantly more money than Dell to purchase a higher resolution screen.

In any case, XGA seems appropriate as the default configuration perhaps on the R series (eh, maybe not even there) but certainly not as the default on the their flagship!

[snife]

I think it is odd too - I personally prefer SXGA+ on 14" or UXGA on 15" but having dealt with many users who complain that things are too small at these resolutions, people generally do prefer XGA

Due to Dells ship volumes, everything they get will be cheaper than what Lenovo get as they have the buying power. I have no real basis for this but given that every Dell I have seen has had lit pixels on it and this is something I very rarely see on a ThinKPad, I suspect they may use lower grade panels.

I do agree that Lenovos sales strategy is annoying - you should be able to configure any model the way you want, this is one thing I do like about Dell but again, they are in the foruntate position of being able to do this because they sell directly which is something most other vendors would not be able to do.

[GomJabbar]

I do think that it is ridiculous that it appears to be the only resolution offered on 50% or better of the T60 models though.

Just speculation, but I wonder if the non-XGA higher-resolution displays are more prone to dead/stuck pixels? This could be one reason for making these higher-resolution displays somewhat more expensive and less available. How many unhappy customers have been generated because of dead/stuck pixels in their $2000+ notebook? A user may be happier stuck with XGA than with one or more stuck pixels.

FWIW, I chose a 14" XGA model because I wanted the smaller form factor of the 14" but at the same time was concerned that the fonts might be too small in a 14" SGXA+ display. Sure, I would have preferred the clarity of a higher resolution, but not at the price of small fonts. [Yes, I know font sizes can be changed, but this doesn't always work.]

[zhenya]

FWIW of 20+ Dell laptops at our shop, all with resolutions greater than 1024x768, we don't to my knowledge, have any with dead pixels. Unfortunately the first dead pixel I've ever seen is the one on my z60t.

[dsigma6]

I'm still trying to figure out why this topic was created after the same topic, minus "..." - was created a few threads down.

[GomJabbar]

I'm still trying to figure out why this topic was created after the same topic, minus "..." - was created a few threads down.

Elementary my dear Watson. fbrdphreak posted his thread: Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:15 am in the GENERAL ThinkPad News/Comments & Questions forum where it belonged. The OP of this thread Tiger posted his thread: Thu Aug 10, 2006 11:47 in the T60 Series forum. The T60 Series forum is more active than the GENERAL ThinkPad News/Comments & Questions forum, so the thread received more attention there. A little later, one of the Mods or Admins moved this thread to the proper forum. Seeing as how this thread already had more replies, it kept growing.

Regardless, IMO the thread rightly belongs to fbrdphreak who happens to be affiliated with LaptopLogic, whose article spawned these threads in the first place. Additionally, fbrdphreak posted his thread in the proper forum for the subject.

EDIT: A couple of typos fixed.

[dsigma6]

i ain't go to school. and i concur with who it "belongs" to.

[jjesusfreak01]

i ain't go to school. and i concur with who it "belongs" to.

Ahh, you have an evil post count!!!
Respond quick!

[dsigma6]

Ahh, you have an evil post count!!!
Respond quick!

Thanks for noticing! I was going to just edit my posts until I really had to add a new one, but that is in fact evil! Hello 667!

[christopher_wolf]

Ahh, you have an evil post count!!!
Respond quick!

Thanks for noticing! I was going to just edit my posts until I really had to add a new one, but that is in fact evil! Hello 667!

Oh wow....Do I ever get a kick out of reading some of the threads here.

[jjesusfreak01]

Ahh, you have an evil post count!!!
Respond quick!

Thanks for noticing! I was going to just edit my posts until I really had to add a new one, but that is in fact evil! Hello 667!

Oh wow....Do I ever get a kick out of reading some of the threads here.

You know this happens on every forum...

Anyways, what would the forums be without the humor? Just another boring help site...

[archer6]

Personally I prefer the UXGA resolution on a 10.4" display...

Lots of information displayed in a very small area. Compact display causes very little drain on the battery. Text is clear as a book! Reduces the amount of time I spend in front of the computer... as I have to squint to try and make out what's being displayed. Headache comes on quickly and I'm done for the day...leaving early...

has this thread drifted or what?....

[christopher_wolf]

Lots of information displayed in a very small area. Compact display causes very little drain on the battery.

Eeeeeexcept when you go to move a Window; remember, you have the same number of pixels, hence transistors, that you have to push/pull up and down per each pixel. So moving around a window more, which will happen according to Fitt's law for someone coming from even a 12" screen, will more than compensate for the power savings by changing the same amount of pixels, albeit it in more movements as the user juggles windows, than on, say, a 15" UXGA. The power response characteristic of the LCD under use will be similar to that of a larger screen for no real gain except for making the text really tiny. So, if you use the LCD alot, most of the powersavings will vanish as compared to a larger screen with the same resolution.

[thePCxp]

In any case, XGA seems appropriate as the default configuration perhaps on the R series (eh, maybe not even there) but certainly not as the default on the their flagship!

And what do you mean by that?

[christopher_wolf]

In any case, XGA seems appropriate as the default configuration perhaps on the R series (eh, maybe not even there) but certainly not as the default on the their flagship!

And what do you mean by that?

For his sake, I hope not what you think he means.

[christopher_wolf]

In any case, XGA seems appropriate as the default configuration perhaps on the R series (eh, maybe not even there) but certainly not as the default on the their flagship!

And what do you mean by that?

For his sake, I hope not what you think he means.

Isn't that right.......Zhenya?

[snife]

In any case, XGA seems appropriate as the default configuration perhaps on the R series (eh, maybe not even there) but certainly not as the default on the their flagship!

And what do you mean by that?

I know your an R series fan but I would agree it makes more sense as the whole point of R series is that they should be less expensive than T series (hence why the R60e only comes with 15" XGA). However, with the R60, I have never seen an R series which was so similar to a T series and I cannot understand why it appears to get so ignored.

[archer6]

I know your an R series fan but I would agree it makes more sense as the whole point of R series is that they should be less expensive than T series (hence why the R60e only comes with 15" XGA). However, with the R60, I have never seen an R series which was so similar to a T series and I cannot understand why it appears to get so ignored.

I'm a ThinkPad Fan (all models)...

Having migrated from a rather narrow focus on T models only. This because I have watched as the R & X series have both evolved into very nice notebooks in their respective catagories. Recently I purchased a Z series just to see what that was like and to experience the newest model in the line. This model fits in nicely just as though it had been in the line all along. Everything is very "ThinkPad", build quality, look & feel, and functionality.

I too have noticed how much the R series is beginning to mirror the T series, very interesting. For those who do not travel daily with their ThinkPads the R is a great model. I have just begun deploying those in my office environment (in place of T models) for the employess that do not leave the facility and so far our experience has been exemplary.