Lenovo destroying the Thinkpad legacy?

[RUSH2112]

When Lenovo bought the right to produce and sell Thinkpads, we knew there would be some changes, but I see them completely ruining the namesake they bought. I realize that much of this is preference, but I am very traditionalist when it comes to Thinkpads.

The Windows / Application Keys - Normally, a Windows key does not bother me too much (Although Id rather it not be there - or at least be a generic super key, rather than an os-specific one), but with the tighter keys on the X series, it can become a pain when going after the ctrl or alt key. At if they must have it, put it in the top row like Toshiba does. Better yet, offer a legacy keyboard for those of us who do not want these unecessary keys.

Titanium Covers - While I was a little upset seeing Thinkpads with non-black covers, it was really just fine when it was restricted to the Z series, and remained a strict option. Now, it is tough to configure a Z without the titanium, and there is talk of expanding it to other models. Eeek

Switch of power adapters - Just upsets me that my collection of classic adapters are now useless

Widescreens - Again, restricted to the Z series, it is a little unerving, but so long as it stays to the Z, its fine. It is now confirmed that the T will get widescreens 11/28. This will probably eventually reach the X, as well. Many Thinkpad users prefer classic 4:3 screens, myself included. I would not be happy if the Thinkpad I wanted was only available with a 16:9

Glossy screens - I think it was around 90% of voters on the Lenovo Design Blogs like matte over glossy. I can not stand glossy screens. Keep them away from Thinkpads. It has apparently been confirmed, however, that they will offer glossy screens soon, too though.

Build quality - Complete speculation here, but Lenovo may very well start draining quality to save cost in the future, which would be a big blow to the Thinkpad faithful

[Kyocera]

This whole Lenovo bashing thing has been covered, it will be years before it can really be determined that Lenovo has done anything, good or bad to the thinkpad line.

[christopher_wolf]

Why is this being re-hashed over and over again?

We just archived a very old forum that had to do with the gripes of users that IBM had sold the PC Division to Lenovo. Here is a quick run down to those still interested;

Power adapters? It was going to happen eventually, *especially* in moving to a very new chipset. Why expect them to keep the old adapters? Horizontal compatibility (Adpater works for XTRA systems) is much more important and I would rather they keep that instead of worrying too much about keep older power adatpers for those who, for some reason, want to keep their old adapters even though they get one new adapter per Thinkpad.

Glossy? Not coming on the majority of Thinkpads and matte screens aren't going away at all. If glossy is desired, put an annoying reflective coating on the screen and you get pretty much the same effect. If matte is not desired, very well, one is welcome to peel it right off the screen (if one can somehow manage that).

Widescreen? I don't see big problem here, nobody is going to replace 4:3 on the Thinkpads with Widescreen. Widescreens are being made, that is fine, but they are the Z Series and the upcoming announcement of a new Widescreen branch of the T Series. Get 4:3 if that is the preferred aspect ratio, get 16:9 if that is the preferred aspect ratio. Not much of a problem


Build Quality? It has stayed the same or even, *gasp*, improved over the previous Thinkpad models. One big one that comes to mind is the Roll Cage that is in the T60 as an improvement over the T4X Chassis. In all the shipments of new Thinkpads I have had the chance to see and play with, I have not seen one case where the build quality turned shoddy all of a sudden, especially when compared to the previous Thinkpad model (e.g. T60 vs. T4X, X60 vs. X41, etc).

Windows Key? Annoying for some, but it can be useful in other operating systems; BSD and Linux can both accomodate this and so can other OSes. If the Windows Logo is bothersome, make a new one and slap it on. Maybe a BSD Daemon or a Tux Penguin or Glenda from Plan 9. The only physical problem here is that it is one more addition to the bottom row of keys.

[tfflivemb2]

Not to feed this issue, since it has been covered in numerous threads, I still want to address your specific statements:

The Windows / Application Keys – The fact that a Windows key was on a laptop that I was working on helped me out, when the touchpad failed to work. I was able to use the windows key quickly to jump through the shut down process. Not too big of a fan myself, but will admit that it made it easier in that specific situation.

Titanium Covers – This is an option. It isn’t required that you get this cover. The option is merely there for those that might want it.

Switch of power adapters – IMHO, this is a matter of progression. These are more powerful systems, and perhaps the new adapter handles it more effectively. Besides, how do you think people felt when they switched to using the barrel style after using the 5 pin adapters.

Widescreens - Again, this is merely an optio for those that are interested in it.

Glossy screens – Read the above statement

Build quality – As you stated, this is “Complete speculation here”. To guess that they might reduce quality for the sake of saving money, is just that…a guess. I think that they will look back on the iSeries and not go that direction. Furthermore, at this point in time the designers at Lenovo are the same ones that were at IBM.

EDIT: Just realized that Chris replied while I was typing this message.

[RUSH2112]

I really brought this up because of the *confirmation* people in the T60 forum have claimed of widescreen and glossy T series. I know the gripe with lenovo has been hashed over and over, it just kind of set me over the top when I realized that my next T series mighe only be available as a widescreen, glossy, titanium-backed model.

[tomh009]

I really brought this up because of the *confirmation* people in the T60 forum have claimed of widescreen and glossy T series. I know the gripe with lenovo has been hashed over and over, it just kind of set me over the top when I realized that my next T series might only be available as a widescreen, glossy, titanium-backed model.

Key word: might. Widescreen will be an option. Glossy will be an option if it's even available. And magnesium covers are pure speculation at this point.

[K. Eng]

I really brought this up because of the *confirmation* people in the T60 forum have claimed of widescreen and glossy T series. I know the gripe with lenovo has been hashed over and over, it just kind of set me over the top when I realized that my next T series mighe only be available as a widescreen, glossy, titanium-backed model.

Extremely unlikely.

You have to look at what the hypothetical Widescreen T60 would be competing with: The HP nc6400 and the Dell Latitude D620, both of which are widescreen business models.

Note that neither the nc6400 nor the D620 have glossy display options. Corporate customers do not demand or want glossy displays. I really doubt Lenovo would shoot themselves in the foot by offering businesses a product they don't want.

More of a case could be made for a titanium backed model. The Titanium lids are very sturdy, more sturdy IMO than the traditional magnesium alloy enclosure.

[dsigma6]

Not to feed this issue

Same here, but in regards to needing a windows key- Why not just ctrl+esc?

[tomh009]

Not to feed this issue

Same here, but in regards to needing a windows key- Why not just ctrl+esc?

I, too, would be happier without Windows keys, but I really think we are beating a dead horse here ... the old keyboards ain't comin' back!

[Thinkpaddict]

Lenovo must be in a tight spot, trying to expand their market competing with the likes of Dell, while trying to maintain the prestigious, austere, and business image of the Thinkpad brand.

Personally, I would keep the T and X series the way they are basically (excepting the obvious technological advances such as new CPUs, graphic cards, etc.) They should probably make the R series more cool, and put a bland shiney sticker on the back since it seems to atract teenagers so much As for the Z series, the problem with them is that they are too expensive for something that is not a classic Thinkpad. Not that they are bad products in any way, just that don't have enough of a market out there for them.

Are we doomed to a future of endless Dells and Starbucks? I hope not.

[beeblebrox]

Lenovo must be in a tight spot, trying to expand their market competing with the likes of Dell, while trying to maintain the prestigious, austere, and business image of the Thinkpad brand.

Personally, I would keep the T and X series the way they are basically (excepting the obvious technological advances such as new CPUs, graphic cards, etc.) They should probably make the R series more cool, and put a bland shiney sticker on the back since it seems to atract teenagers so much As for the Z series, the problem with them is that they are too expensive for something that is not a classic Thinkpad. Not that they are bad products in any way, just that don't have enough of a market out there for them.

Indeed, Lenovo does not look very good at the moment. Only China as their home market is quite ok on terms of sales.

Lenovo seems to be too small a player to compete with HPs and Dells. I guess the proposed merger with Acer might help a lot in terms of purchase power. Acer and Lenovo together should achieve a much better price on components. Now, with margins on notebooks reaching virtually a zero level I see a lot of M&A activity going on in the business.
I guess that Lenovo will try everything to attract as many buyers as possible. Thus all the different notebook variations and notebook lines. Widescreen, glossy, etc.

However, I see that they did not get their inventory mess in order. They have way too many model variations. The ThinkPad options seem to be endless.

Apple has only 4 models, a very good inventory management (best in the world, better than Dell) and makes excellent profits.
I also thought, that their new 3000 Series would be very different and consumer oriented. Now, they are advertized as small/medium business notebooks. Are black/silver and cost about the same as ThinkPads.
They should have a business ThinkPad line and a Lenovo 3000 Consumer line with thrilling design and modern colors. But they don't.
I am in doubt about Lenovo's marketing genius...

[christopher_wolf]

If you want an overly-complicated parts catalog, try some of HP's older equipment and parts catalogs and the "combos" that some of them had.

I can't see Lenovo doing badly at all with the Thinkpads right now, the model line is well in control and there is a good amount of options. Apple having only 4 models doesn't necessarily mean that it is on purpose for a good reason, there are many Apple users, some of them former, that wish that Apple would have branched out with their offerings and at least offered lighter, more portiable systems and perhaps a tablet. They didn't do that and, for anybody else but Apple and a few other special niche hardware suppliers, it would be a bad idea indeed to purposefully cut down their model line to about 4 models given that there is demand for more variety. It may suite Apple well because they are, more or less, varients on the same overall concept, but it would hurt a company like Dell far more because it wouldn't be doing the right thing for them.

Shipping has improved from Lenovo, given the recent spate of T60/ps I have seen come through; there was no problem and it actually turned out I have had more problems with the M65 Precision Dells and that shipment.

[tomh009]

Indeed, Lenovo does not look very good at the moment. Only China as their home market is quite ok on terms of sales.

Eh? Lenovo's market share is currently in the 7-8% range globally, #3 in the market place, selling close to 20M units per year, and up significantly year-over-year. Not OK? Really?

I guess that Lenovo will try everything to attract as many buyers as possible. Thus all the different notebook variations and notebook lines. Widescreen, glossy, etc.

However, I see that they did not get their inventory mess in order. They have way too many model variations. The ThinkPad options seem to be endless.

Apple has only 4 models, a very good inventory management (best in the world, better than Dell) and makes excellent profits.

Apple aside, pretty much all the other major players work the same way. HP has about two dozen base models, Dell has 16, Lenovo has between eight and 15, depending on whether you count T43 and T43p as different models, for example. Then each manufacturer allows you to build your own configuration, or to pick from a number of preconfigured systems. I'm not seeing evidence of an "inventory mess" -- am I missing something here?

As for the Apple model, it may work for them (it really is positioned really differently than most other notebooks), but if you read Apple forums, you will see people complaining about the lack of choices. For example, they have no 12" models at all. Would you really be happier if Lenovo dropped everything other than the T series?

[Dead1nside]

The main appeal for buying a new Apple MacBook etc. is the triple boot ability. All the Mozilla developers seem to be running them for testing purposes. I'm not sure about the inclusion of the Windows ky, re-assigning Alt Gr seemed to do for me. The T60p looks world class though. The ThinkVantage tools and especially now the SLED 10 support for the T60 line really sell it for me. I will definitely get one before I go to university.

[beeblebrox]

If you want an overly-complicated parts catalog, try some of HP's older equipment and parts catalogs and the "combos" that some of them had.

I can't see Lenovo doing badly at all with the Thinkpads right now, the model line is well in control and there is a good amount of options. Apple having only 4 models doesn't necessarily mean that it is on purpose for a good reason, there are many Apple users, some of them former, that wish that Apple would have branched out with their offerings and at least offered lighter, more portiable systems and perhaps a tablet. They didn't do that and, for anybody else but Apple and a few other special niche hardware suppliers, it would be a bad idea indeed to purposefully cut down their model line to about 4 models given that there is demand for more variety. It may suite Apple well because they are, more or less, varients on the same overall concept, but it would hurt a company like Dell far more because it wouldn't be doing the right thing for them.

Shipping has improved from Lenovo, given the recent spate of T60/ps I have seen come through; there was no problem and it actually turned out I have had more problems with the M65 Precision Dells and that shipment.

No, you got it wrong.
The main prupose of a company is to make sustainable profits. IBM couldn't do it, they were a slow dinosaur. Even their new CEO had to fight that bureaucracy and PC business is extreme fast business. Lenovo has severy problems to acquire a much larger production volume, apart from getting any meaningful profits. It looks like Acer will be #3 by end of this year. And still, compared to HP and Dell, the rest of the business are just dwarfs. Lenovo lacks high volume, notebooks are becoming a commodity business with neglegible margins. Lenovo really needs to grow their profits and markets very fast, otherwise they are toast in a few years.
Just read the recent interview with Deepak Advani , senior vice president and chief marketing officer of Lenovo. There is still a long way to go, better run.
No wonder, that they brought in the Dell executive as their new CEO.

And yes, Apple is doing everything right. Anyone who understands supply chain and inventory business will acknowledge their strategy. Lenovo ist stuck between a franchise shops and direct sales business. Now they are looking at Apple to see if they can copy that.

I am not so much concerned about silly problems such as good, better, worse screens. Nobody in their right mind will start searching for an obscure tabook to find a usefull configuration. They would go to the homepage with ther rep's and configure a mass volume batch.

A consumer would only see that confusing homepage and quickly leave for Sony or Apple.
So, in summary, Lenovo is not very consumer oriented. Despite their commercials.
They definitely need a distinctive high volume consumer line that can share components with their thinkpads to lower costs. Right now it is a mess.