Speculation: 17" Thinkpad?

[RUSH2112]

I was just wondering, do you think Lenovo will intoduce a 17" Widescreen Thinkpad? Maybe in the form of a reincarnated A or G Series.

There is certainly a market for them. I can't say that I'd spring for one, but they seem to be doing pretty well with Dell and HP/Compaq, as well as Apple. My guess is that anyone who wants a professional 17" notebook either has to go for a Dell Precision or Apple MacBook Pro, so I'd imagine that Lenovo should sell them pretty well.

[jamiphar]

I have no clue whether or not they will, but it'd be sweet if they made one that was not only 17", but only 1" thick, like a couple of the Macs I've seen.

[schen]

I think it's not only a facinating topic, but something that I've been thinking about off and on for some time. At first I hated them (the whole catagory of "desktop replacements"), especially when I was in IT. I felt like that they completely ignored the "prime directive" of mobile computing... being mobile! But I've leaned more and more toward accepting these folding desktops as I've gotten to understand that there purpose (by and large) isn't for professionals (with a few exceptions), but for folks at home who'd like to have the ability to close up their PC and put it away. And as PCs have increasingly become a "commodity", and notebooks have become more standardized, home buyers virtually never open computers up any more. With that aspect out of the way, there's no reason not to use a notebook.

If they did decide to do it though, I'd like to see them do something like a next generation A30/31... mobile workstation class machine, but like you guys said; in a thin and wide format. With the way my wife likes to use her notebook (A31); basically meaning never leaving the end table by her recliner, I'd probably be someone who'd buy one!

I think it'd also be cool for them to do something similar to the Dell M2010. IBM does have a little bit of history building that sort of thing, like the PS/2 P70/75 that were sold as "portable servers"! I wouldn't be shocked if they did simply because they've now branched out from the purely business model with the Z series.

I'd be interested to know how many of just this forum's members have TP that are "desk-bound", wouldn't use something like that!

[christopher_wolf]

IBM does have a little bit of history building that sort of thing, like the PS/2 P70/75 that were sold as "portable servers"! I wouldn't be shocked if they did simply because they've now branched out from the purely business model with the Z series.

I am reminded of my old P75 which was pretty much a one-armed bandit in the sense that it would take one's arm off if one wasn't careful.

I wouldn't be too thrilled with a 17" Thinkpad as my work extends into the areas of research where there really is not much of a use for a huge screen (and, no, I am not carrying a 17"to meetings everyday even if it is ), but there are others that might be enthused at such prospects; sufficiently such that Lenovo might add another subseries just for that.

[RUSH2112]

I'd be interested to know how many of just this forum's members have TP that are "desk-bound", wouldn't use something like that!

Well I carry mine everywhere with me, however, I have been looking into a secondary system that would be mostly desk-bound. This is part of my interest in a 17" notebook. I would go with a desktop, but I would also like to be able to use it as a spare laptop in case something happens to my X60s. I was actually seriously considering a MacBook Pro, since it can never hurt to run on multiple platforms (not to mention there are a few good OSX-only apps that I like).

[schen]

Well I carry mine everywhere with me, however, I have been looking into a secondary system that would be mostly desk-bound. This is part of my interest in a 17" notebook. I would go with a desktop, but I would also like to be able to use it as a spare laptop in case something happens to my X60s. I was actually seriously considering a MacBook Pro, since it can never hurt to run on multiple platforms (not to mention there are a few good OSX-only apps that I like).

Yeah, I'm definitely interested too and I do like the Mac, although I'm just too cheap to actually buy one. Maybe if it was me that was deskbound (since I do all the media stuff), but I just built up an inexpensive AMD based desktop to do the Photo and Video editing instead. Furthermore, I just can't bring myself to buy one of those HP 8000 Series or Toshibas. I do think that it would be very cool form-factor to use as a Guest-Room/Extra System machine.

So, for now, I'll just keep my wife in A30/31s till they are no longer viable and I'll use my Ts. Hopefully I'll be able to get my A22 up and running to fullfill the Guest Room/Extra System role.

[beeblebrox]

I think it's not only a facinating topic, but something that I've been thinking about off and on for some time. At first I hated them (the whole catagory of "desktop replacements"), especially when I was in IT. I felt like that they completely ignored the "prime directive" of mobile computing... being mobile! But I've leaned more and more toward accepting these folding desktops as I've gotten to understand that there purpose (by and large) isn't for professionals (with a few exceptions), but for folks at home who'd like to have the ability to close up their PC and put it away. And as PCs have increasingly become a "commodity", and notebooks have become more standardized, home buyers virtually never open computers up any more. With that aspect out of the way, there's no reason not to use a notebook.

If they did decide to do it though, I'd like to see them do something like a next generation A30/31... mobile workstation class machine, but like you guys said; in a thin and wide format. With the way my wife likes to use her notebook (A31); basically meaning never leaving the end table by her recliner, I'd probably be someone who'd buy one!

I think it'd also be cool for them to do something similar to the Dell M2010. IBM does have a little bit of history building that sort of thing, like the PS/2 P70/75 that were sold as "portable servers"! I wouldn't be shocked if they did simply because they've now branched out from the purely business model with the Z series.

I'd be interested to know how many of just this forum's members have TP that are "desk-bound", wouldn't use something like that!

Interestingly a lot of professional people are using these big 17" notebooks. I see a lot of engineers using them (as a replacement for their desktop workstation) for CAD/CAM, electronics.
On after-work business parties, most DJs have the large 17" PowerMacs, running some fantastic DJ Software.
In a popular nightclub in London I saw a group of DJs with at least 5 large Powerbooks for mixing the sounds. It was like the in command center of the Enterprise. Veryy coool!

On the other hand, living room media Centers are still very crappy. A nice 20" detachable notebook comes in very handy, indeed. And Dell,HP are selling them quite well, now that notebook hard drives have a seriously reasonable capacity.

[dsigma6]

It was like the in command center of the Enterprise. Veryy coool!

Um, excuse me? They'd totally use ThinkPads.

[JonathanGennick]

But I've leaned more and more toward accepting these folding desktops as I've gotten to understand that there purpose (by and large) isn't for professionals (with a few exceptions), but for folks at home who'd like to have the ability to close up their PC and put it away.

Also, the wide screens are useful for spreadsheet mavens. My boss lives in Excel, and he's got a Dell something-or-other that's got the largest screen I've ever seen on a laptop. I couldn't believe it when I first met him in person and saw what he was carrying. I often joke--not to him though--that he must need two tray tables to hold the thing when he flys. Fortunately for his health, his lap size does not come close to matching his laptop size .

I'm sure his battery life is measured in seconds, and surely it must be a pain to lug that beast of his around, and my X30 looks like a gnat in comparison, but, as I said, he lives, eats, and breaths Excel, and constantly is maintaining his gimungus spreadsheets. He does actually use every inch of his display.

Home users too. I agree Schen, in that many people at home are happy these days that they don't have to dedicate such a huge amount of space to a fixed PC. For some, I think it's just the ability to go from kitchen-table to dining-table to coffee-table. It's nice not to be locked down to a single spot.

I still like 'em small though.

[dsigma6]

Fortunately for his health, his lap size does not come close to matching his laptop size

Fortunate for not having to pay for two plane tickets!

I've used a 17" Dell, and briefly two 15" widescreens, a Toshiba and an HP. They were so cool to look at, but I didn't need that extra space to type in Word. Matter of fact, widescreen makes Word look like garbage.

From a sell-out standpoint, Lenovo would appeal to a larger audience- So why wouldn't they do it?

[schen]

Also, the wide screens are useful for spreadsheet mavens. My boss lives in Excel, and he's got a Dell something-or-other that's got the largest screen I've ever seen on a laptop. I couldn't believe it when I first met him in person and saw what he was carrying. I often joke--not to him though--that he must need two tray tables to hold the thing when he flys. Fortunately for his health, his lap size does not come close to matching his laptop size .

I'm sure his battery life is measured in seconds, and surely it must be a pain to lug that beast of his around, and my X30 looks like a gnat in comparison, but, as I said, he lives, eats, and breaths Excel, and constantly is maintaining his gimungus spreadsheets. He does actually use every inch of his display.

Home users too. I agree Schen, in that many people at home are happy these days that they don't have to dedicate such a huge amount of space to a fixed PC. For some, I think it's just the ability to go from kitchen-table to dining-table to coffee-table. It's nice not to be locked down to a single spot.

I still like 'em small though.

Yeah, you guys are probably right on, since I've been out of touch with the business world for a few years now, although I'm more referring the traditional business notebook crowd like consultants etc. that travel quite a lot. I can't imagine trying to open one of those monsters on anything other than first class!

Like you said, I'm sure it'd be great on spreadsheets though! I sure could have used more elbow room when my day started and ended with Excel. It would have been especially helpful to enter data on a number pads. Now, it's mostly websurfing and typing tests for which an SXGA is almost perfect. Half the time, I have it working on my lap in bed.

I really think that eventually, many of the desktop folks will move in the direction of these "full-bodied" notebooks, especially now that the prices of those things are in the sub-$1000 range. I'll keep my fingers crossed that a ThinkPad or Lenovo version come out before I have to break down and buy an HP or Toshiba!

[lowie]

Since I got a Dell D620 (15.4"widescreen 1140*900px) for work, my collection is complete!

The 620 for desktop work (excel/cad/development), my 14" T42 to take with me if size is not too big an issue, and my 12" x30 when I travel light-weighted (airplane, bus, holidays, ...)

Despite of the extra weight, I wouldn't mind getting a 17" D820 for work. Their hi-res screens are amazing (1900*1200px)...

Although I am not in the market for a 17"' Thinkpad, I must agree that they would sell well, there is a market for those machines, and it's growing.

I just hope that Lenovo and other manufacturers will not focus on those "bigger" models, and decrease their offer/increase the price of subnotebooks (12"-13")

[JHEM]

Yeah, you guys are probably right on, since I've been out of touch with the business world for a few years now, although I'm more referring the traditional business notebook crowd like consultants etc. that travel quite a lot.

I've been retired for almost 15 years from "the business world" but maintain contacts through my present work in academe and consulting. I was at a Governor's Breakfast last week in Princeton and saw the usual turnout of attendees and their laptops. The folks on the state side trooped in carrying a variety of "lowest bidder" Dells, Gateways, HPs, Compaqs, etc. The legal and engineering attendees from the civilian side almost universally were carrying various flavors of Thinkpads with T4X machines being most prevalent. Not to [censored] any particular machines with faint praise, but the Dell, etc. users had a great deal of difficulty utilizing the WiFi enabled projector for their presentations. The Thinkpad users opened access connections, logged on, selected the projector in presentation director and were off and running. The "bloatware" maligned by so many is useful in the real world and, more importantly, works!

I also find it interesting to follow the laptop preferences of my family members who are out in the work force. My SIL is the director of sales in oncology for a major Pharma. His sales force is equipped with X41Ts for presentations in Dr.'s offices and are delighted with the machines. They're soon to upgrade to X60Ts.

My eldest daughter, his wife, is the Manager of Int'l Clinical Trials for a rival Pharma and she and her employees all carry T42s as they are primarily involved in working with electronic documents, emails and spreadsheets. They'll be upgrading to T60s during the coming year, primarily 14" models, but I understand that they're already testing some of the widescreen models.

My wife, an independent consultant to Pharmas in clinical trials, carries a T42 also as she has similar document and FDA submittal requirements as our daughter, just on a higher level. However, at home in her office, she has a 20" widescreen LCD for working on her spreadsheets.

Our other daughter, a physical therapist, now conducts wellness seminars for corporations around the US. She carries her T40 everywhere along with a projector for her presentations. As a road warrior she's more concerned with overall travel weight than needing a larger display size.

Her husband is a mortgage trader and his office in Tulsa uses Thinkpads as well, although there is a lot of discussion about "upgrading" to widescreen units from other companies as, meeting Schen's description, they spend their entire day viewing various spreadsheets.

My son the pilot lugs his X31 everywhere and wouldn't give it up at gunpoint. He feels it's the perfect size for his needs on the "road" and he never has any problems connecting to the WAPs provided at most of the FBOs he visits with its internal Atheros a/b/g card.

His wife tele-commutes from home as operations manager for a rival fractional operator on an R52 and is in desperate need of a widescreen display for viewing all of her pilot and aircraft scheduling spreadsheets.

So, in just that small user sample above, I can identify four users who would benefit from upgrading to a widescreen equipped Thinkpad (my eldest daughter, my wife, my SIL the mortgage broker and my DIL) and two who would lust after a 17" widescreen model (the mortgage broker and my DIL). While many consider laptops with large widescreen displays to be consumer oriented devices, I believe they would fit a useful niche among business users and be warmly received.

James

[JonathanGennick]

Since I got a Dell D620 (15.4"widescreen 1140*900px) for work, my collection is complete!

The 620 for desktop work (excel/cad/development), my 14" T42 to take with me if size is not too big an issue, and my 12" x30 when I travel light-weighted (airplane, bus, holidays, ...)

For those who alternate like this between many different notebooks, I 've a question: how in the world do you keep things synchronized? I use POP email, and right now I read all of my email on my desktop. It'd take me a half-hour or more to get in properly moved over to the laptop, and then I'd have to remember not to accidentally hit the "get new mail" button on the wrong machine.

Mail is my biggest headache when it comes to switching between machines. How do you handle it with three?

And then what about all your files? I work on from 15-20+ book projects at a time, each with many files, and I don't know how I'd keep them all straight were I constantly to be switching machines.

[RUSH2112]

Mail is my biggest headache when it comes to switching between machines. How do you handle it with three?

And then what about all your files? I work on from 15-20+ book projects at a time, each with many files, and I don't know how I'd keep them all straight were I constantly to be switching machines.

While I only use one computer right now, there was a point that I was using 3-4 on a daily basis.
As far as mail, I just use web mail. Gmail is great for this, and I see no reason to use Thunderbird/Outlook.

In terms of files, I used one machine primarily for school, so my "important" files were all right there, yet I could move files around either over the network or with thumb drives or external hard drives.

[tomh009]

Mail is my biggest headache when it comes to switching between machines. How do you handle it with three?

And then what about all your files? I work on from 15-20+ book projects at a time, each with many files, and I don't know how I'd keep them all straight were I constantly to be switching machines.

For mail, absolutely the best approach is Outlook with an Exchange server back end. The mail is always wherever you are.

For other files, a sync applet (I user SyncBackSE myself, but there are lots of others, too, to choose from) is the way to go. It'll keep your files straight, no matter where you update them.

[JonathanGennick]

For mail, absolutely the best approach is Outlook with an Exchange server back end. The mail is always wherever you are.

I don't have that option. I don't work for a corporation. Well, I guess I do, but I don't use Outlook, nor Exchange Server, and doing so would not solve the problem of synching my personal email which is pop-based.

Web mail I've avoided. I like to be in control, and when I travel I am often disconnected. Plane rides are when I catch up on email. On a cross-country trip, I'm usually burning through email the whole time.

Maybe I should look into the pen-drive approach. I don't do a lot of graphic work, and I think most of my current project files would fit into just a few gigs.

I use "The Bat!" as an email client. There is some sort of pen-drive-based version of that product. Perhaps I should investigate it.

[JHEM]

I don't have that option. I don't work for a corporation. Well, I guess I do, but I don't use Outlook, nor Exchange Server, and doing so would not solve the problem of synching my personal email which is pop-based.

Set your email client to leave the emails on your ISP's server on all but one machine.

It's a little messy and you still wind up with one or more emails on one machine that isn't on another, also you'll always wind up with a lot of already read copies that need to be deleted.

I use Outlook and have my server based email client as the "home" for all my email folders, so as long as I'm on my home network any of my machines can access that single folder.

When I'm on the road I use webbased email.

James

[smugiri]

Google apps for the domain is going to go a long way towards solving the problem of email availability for small businesses ( the "why can't my email/docs follow me?" problem ). I am trying it for my small business. You need a domain (about $10 a year) and can try it out here.

Another cool trick Google is bringing to the market is pop aggregation: google checks email from all your other email accounts and drops it into your Google email account so that you can see everything from one mailbox.

Very nice.

[pianowizard]

But I've leaned more and more toward accepting these folding desktops as I've gotten to understand that there purpose (by and large) isn't for professionals (with a few exceptions), but for folks at home who'd like to have the ability to close up their PC and put it away.

And even in the office, I would rather have a big-screen laptop than a desktop computer with an LCD monitor, because at the end of the day I can lock it up in a drawer, so I won't have to worry about it getting stolen.

It's quite likely that Lenovo will offer 17" Thinkpads eventually. As I said several times in other threads, for many people, WUXGA resolution on a 15.4" screen (i.e. the Z61p) doesn't work well, but would look pretty nice on a 17" display. I think for that reason, Dell and Sony stopped offering WUXGA options for their 15.4" laptops as soon as they started making 17" models.

[pianowizard]

Matter of fact, widescreen makes Word look like garbage.

Word is actually the #2 reason I prefer widescreen, with watching movies being #1. I can view two documents or two pages of a document simultaneously, side by side.

I just hope that Lenovo and other manufacturers will not focus on those "bigger" models, and decrease their offer/increase the price of subnotebooks (12"-13")

Totally agree. Dell has been making fewer ultraportable laptops recently. The lightest Inspiron model is now 4.37 lbs (used to be 2.99 lbs, the 300m), and the lightest Latitude is now 3.00 lbs (used to be 2.5, the X1). Toshiba is getting heavier too, e.g. they discontinued the Libretto line, and their first R series laptop (the 2.4-lb R100) was lighter than its successors.

[Rob Mayercik]

The "bloatware" maligned by so many is useful in the real world and, more importantly, works!

Yes, but doesn't the fact that (a) it's real-world useful and (b) it actually works mean that it isn't bloatware?

[JHEM]

The "bloatware" maligned by so many is useful in the real world and, more importantly, works!

Yes, but doesn't the fact that (a) it's real-world useful and (b) it actually works mean that it isn't bloatware?

That was the point I was trying to make Rob.

There are so many Forum members who decry the default software that ships on their Thinkpads and wonder why it's there "taking up all that HD space".

It's there because it's useful in a work environment.

James

[schen]

Yes, but doesn't the fact that (a) it's real-world useful and (b) it actually works mean that it isn't bloatware?

That was the point I was trying to make Rob.

There are so many Forum members who decry the default software that ships on their Thinkpads and wonder why it's there "taking up all that HD space".

It's there because it's useful in a work environment.

James

I totally agree with this, which why I leave most of the IBM/Lenovo software on my machine, but I can't say the same for other manufacturer. Sony seems to be especially bad about this, although I'm sure some folks like it. Of course they are more consumer market oriented than many other manufacturers.

[pianowizard]

I can't say the same for other manufacturer. Sony seems to be especially bad about this, although I'm sure some folks like it. Of course they are more consumer market oriented than many other manufacturers.

Dell is very bad too. I have bought three Dell computers directly from Dell.com (Inspiron 8200 in fall 2002, Inspiron 700m in fall 2004, and Dimension B110 in spring 2006) and have noticed that they've been getting worse and worse. All those preinstalled trial programs slow down the system big time.

[schen]

Dell is very bad too. I have bought three Dell computers directly from Dell.com (Inspiron 8200 in fall 2002, Inspiron 700m in fall 2004, and Dimension B110 in spring 2006) and have noticed that they've been getting worse and worse. All those preinstalled trial programs slow down the system big time.

It's quite a bit better if you stick with their "professional" lines; that's Latitude for notebooks and OptiPlex for desktops. Although the hardware is usually not as cutting edge, they are usually more stable and "tried and true" designs. Although I must say that the 600 Series Latitudes gave me endless problems. There was a silver lining though in that it gave me the opening to switch our notebook purchases to R and T Series ThinkPads!

[pianowizard]

It's quite a bit better if you stick with their "professional" lines

Interesting. Does Sony have a professional/business line?

[schen]

Not as far as I can tell. They seem to have different levels, but it's all seems pretty consumer oriented. Most of the bigger manufacturers however do have the different lines though.

IBM used to have the 300 Series and then the i Series for Consumers before they kinda got out of that market.

Toshiba has the Satellite vs. the Tecra

Currently, HP has the NC Series vs. the Pavilions

[beeblebrox]

It's quite a bit better if you stick with their "professional" lines

Interesting. Does Sony have a professional/business line?

Yes, they do. Introduced just recently. Mainly in Europe. They look pretty ok and serious. But so far Sony had no luck to get any major market share, because they have no business reputation. And all business polls in Europe show Sony Support to be at the very low end.

Mention the Sony Rootkit and any admin will strictly oppose any Sony purchase.
I am sure, even in 10 years, rootkits will be remembered well.