Has the last greatest ThinkPad already been made?

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Brad · #1 Post by **Brad** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:02 am

What do you think?

Brad

rleo25 · #2 Post by **rleo25** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:38 am

The problem with this kind of questions is that you don´t know the future... or can´t make an accurate prospective view... so the answers are speculative ones... well if you asked what is the best thinkpad to date that would be another question... however that would lead us to propose some parameters as to make the comparisson, what is the best for you? Performance and cutting edge technology? then the answer would be arround some T60 model... Design? well there arre various nice models before T60 and surely not this later... build quality? T60 again... There will be many answers to your question... don´t surprise!

#3 Post by **jdhurst** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:41 am

Hard to say.

1. Hardware: for all the ones I have own from the 365 series and up to my current T41, the T23 has the hands-down best form factor, and the T41 (still using it) is the best overall. I don't own anything newer, however I have set up T42's and T43's and still like my T41. One nice feature (amongst many) is that it is quiet and is as cool as a cucumber.

2. Software: Up to my T41, 95% of the IBM supplied software was useful, decent software. My T41 runs at less than 2 percent CPU more than 95 percent of the time. Some of the new Lenovo ThinkCenter machines I have set up are coming with increasing amounts of software that I view as useless from a business perspective and now takes me more time than I want to remove it. So I don't like what I see here (YMMV).
... JDH

anthean · #4 Post by **anthean** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:18 am

Brad wrote:Has the last greatest ThinkPad already been made?

Hope not. I look forward to a refresh (T61 ? T62 ?) in a year or so.

The outstanding build quality originally drove me to get a Thinkpad. A decade ago, there was just no question--other notebooks were obviously fragile pieces of junk in comparison to Thinkpads.

I do think other notebook makers have improved the solidness of their designs and their build quality over the last decade. They pretty much had too--the replacement and service costs for poor quality product was eating them alive.

ambientscape · #5 Post by **ambientscape** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:32 pm

As far as I know that computer technology has gone almost to the peak. Modern computers is much more faster but old laptop like mine the T23 still support most of the major corporate software for daily work. As for thinkpads, they got more powerful and consume less battery power. Newer production technology has enable us to enjoy more high quality laptops with lower price.

pianowizard · #6 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 12:57 pm

Brad wrote:Has the last greatest ThinkPad already been made?

Definitely not. A major improvement is coming within several months: the 14.1" WSXGA+ T61 with Intel's Santa Rosa. It will almost certainly be smaller and lighter than a 4:3 14.1" T60, and with the optical drive replaced with a travel bezel, it might weigh just under 4 lbs. In other words, it will be a dream machine!

DarkMark · #7 Post by **DarkMark** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:27 pm

A T-Series with an external Bay?
Really? Is that planned?

Sounds quite interesting, and rather X-ish.

Puppy · #8 Post by **Puppy** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:13 pm

Very likely. There won't be anything better than T60p UXGA IPS

#9 Post by **gator** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:51 pm

Puppy wrote:Very likely. There won't be anything better than T60p UXGA IPS

I hit myself on the head everytime I hear people talk about the UXGA - should have bought one. I have the 15" SXGA+ which is awesome, but the UXGA on a 15" is a dream config.

Puppy · #10 Post by **Puppy** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 2:53 pm

gator wrote:I have the 15" SXGA+ which is awesome, but the UXGA on a 15" is a dream config.

The SXGA+ one will become unique as well since there won't be decent displays anymore. See how average (and future ThinkPad) screen on the left compares to real ThinkPad screen on the right ("puke" emoticon here)

BTW Could someone who currently has 15" T60 Widescreen SXGA+ make similar pictures to compare it and post them to this forum ?

#11 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:08 pm

Puppy wrote:Very likely. There won't be anything better than T60p UXGA IPS

I hadn't thought of it from that angle.

The IPS displays pretty much trash normal displays in every aspect except response time. I always remember comparing my T40's display to an IPS equipped T42, and thinking that the panel in my T40 was junk.

pianowizard · #12 Post by **pianowizard** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 7:33 pm

Puppy wrote:See how average (and future ThinkPad) screen on the left compares to real ThinkPad screen on the right

There is really no difference between them when viewed at a perpendicular angle, and that's how I always look at my laptops' displays, so I couldn't care less about whether the display is IPS or not.

Thinkpaddict · #13 Post by **Thinkpaddict** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:55 pm

pianowizard wrote:
Puppy wrote:See how average (and future ThinkPad) screen on the left compares to real ThinkPad screen on the right
There is really no difference between them when viewed at a perpendicular angle, and that's how I always look at my laptops' displays, so I couldn't care less about whether the display is IPS or not.

Exactly

The original question is loaded, because there are many ways to respond to it. My favourites are T23, X21, and X24. But I'm hoping the X60s can change my mind. Technologically there will always be something better. But Thinkpads are not only about technology (at least about electronic technology.)

#14 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:19 pm

pianowizard wrote:
Puppy wrote:See how average (and future ThinkPad) screen on the left compares to real ThinkPad screen on the right
There is really no difference between them when viewed at a perpendicular angle, and that's how I always look at my laptops' displays, so I couldn't care less about whether the display is IPS or not.

It may not be apparant from the screen shots, but the IPS display has far superior color reproduction.

Turbo Audi · #15 Post by **Turbo Audi** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 11:20 pm

Perhaps it is the massive amount of alcohol I drank tonight, but the T60 is the greatest invention ever.

vital-analitix · #16 Post by **vital-analitix** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:17 am

It all depends with what you mean as "best".

If you mean performance then definitely not, faster machines with more capability come out all the time.

If you mean "build like a tank" or "expandable" then I think it has already peaked. In another message that I wrote earlier today in which I questioned if the rot had already set in.

Bear with me - I regurgitate it here:

Normally a (startup) company brings a product to market and keeps on improving the product until they are cofortable with their market share. At that stage they start to cut cost (read "cut corners") in order to improve "the bottom line". This inevitably results in a degradation of quality / functionality.

The earlier message related to the fingerprint software version 5.6 being open source code and loosing the hard disk and boot up fingerprint replacement of the passwords for those (a big one for me). So I am forced to stick to version 5.5.

Another thing is that my old A31's had two Ultrabays which meant I could have three hard disks in the machine or a hard disk and two DVD/CD writers, or an extra battery pack in one of the bays.

Speaking about battery: in both my A31's the batteries after 30 months were in better condition that this machine after six months with only 9 recharge cycles (already reporting 25% wear!). Not impressed either with the screen which is darker at the sides. However I did wear out the IPS screens and this one is showing no deterioration that I can notice.

I felt hat the A31 was built like a tank and do not consider this Z61m is of the same robustness. neither do I like that I have to take the palmrest off to get to the memory, or palmrest and keyboard to get to any modem / network card.

However if one start looking at durability then I feel the A31 may have been belonging to the top of the line stuff.

So there is no short answer to the question of the OP, it all depends on what is important to the beholder.

In all honesty I am more concerned with the antics of Micro$hit with the "genuine advantage" <brown matter of a smelly nature> and their recording of my IP address.... Eventually one needs updates and will not be able to get them, forcing a person to upgrade or to start going to methods as using VMware.

It seems that there is no respect for the investment made into legacy systems and that these may not be cheap to replace (or need replacement at all, my stuff is running quite satisfactory. After all human nature - fear and greed - has not changed in hundreds of thousands of years and why should it now suddenly change in the spate of a year or two?)

Indeed in my own case there is not a replacement available for what I have - these days the environment that I am working in only hands out software based on a monthly (!) license fee. And every time you want to start to up you need to be logged on to the internet for activation (!). Then not to talk about commercial espionage through that avenue......

Heard of enough other operators in my field that when they wanted to go to "work" in the morning they could not because the "validation server" of one of their pieces of software was down. Or about upgrades forced down the throat of those enterpreneurs which is full of bugs and which suddenly break other parts of the environment. Enough said.

Marinus

Brad · #17 Post by **Brad** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:27 am

I have recently got my hands on a T60 and was a little disappointed compared to a T41 that I worked on recently. The build quality that I was expecting just wasn't there. Maybe it was the massive amount of water I drank tonight.

But seriously folks when I look at the keyboard on the T60 it just doesn't click in my mind "ThinkPad". It made me create this topic to see what others thought. Thanks for everyone who responded.

Temetka · #18 Post by **Temetka** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:13 am

To the original question:

No.

My T41p is the best thinkpad I have ever owned. Heck it's the best laptop I have ever owned. That being said I will be getting something better. A T60 or T70 (when it happens). Doesn't really matter.

We can look back and say with some certainty what the best laptop to be released has been. However to say what is going to be released is a whole different ball game.

My magic 8-ball says that we haven't seen anything yet. Wait till the mobile version of Nehalem is released.

Puppy · #19 Post by **Puppy** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:08 am

pianowizard wrote:There is really no difference between them when viewed at a perpendicular angle, and that's how I always look at my laptops' displays, so I couldn't care less about whether the display is IPS or not.

- Contrast (it is not washed like 14" SXGA+ where everything look like a monitor with Brightness at 100% and Contrast at 0%)
- Color reproduction (see http://www.flickr.com/photos/11221256@N00/46932642/)
- Acceptable black level (see 10870.jpg on that page)
- Any dead or stuck pixel does not shine on black background (unlike TN displays)

WPWoodJr · #20 Post by **WPWoodJr** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:19 am

pianowizard wrote:
Puppy wrote:See how average (and future ThinkPad) screen on the left compares to real ThinkPad screen on the right
There is really no difference between them when viewed at a perpendicular angle, and that's how I always look at my laptops' displays, so I couldn't care less about whether the display is IPS or not.

Not true, even in that picture of the two dogs, which is not a good picture for comparing displays because of the restricted color range, you can see that the Dell display is bluer than the Thinkpad display. The color range and accuracy is much better on the IPS displays.

primedude · #21 Post by **primedude** » Mon Apr 02, 2007 1:49 pm

I just replaced a T42 with a T60, but I've only owned one Thinkpad before these two -- I can't remember which one with was, but it would have been a PII-333 or so, and it was about 2.5" thick.

That said, I think the T60 represents an improvement over the T42. Build quality seems better, and the only things I dislike about the T60 in comparison to the T42 are completely inconsequential -- like the missing color accents on the trackpoint keys, or the slightly changed volume/Thinkvantage buttons. Everything else is as good or superior.

SpaRood · #22 Post by **SpaRood** » Tue Apr 03, 2007 11:12 am

I think my Thinkpad T60 2007-FUG is the greatest Thinkpad ever made!

dgrey · #23 Post by **dgrey** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 1:36 pm

I have an A31p with a 15" UXGA (IPS?). Is it possible to swap that screen out with a T60?

JHEM · #24 Post by **JHEM** » Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:24 pm

dgrey wrote:I have an A31p with a 15" UXGA (IPS?). Is it possible to swap that screen out with a T60?

AFAIK, no.

James

Puppy · #25 Post by **Puppy** » Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:14 pm

Yes, T60. See comment about IPS displays from Lenovo http://www.lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=75

rleo25 · #26 Post by **rleo25** » Tue Apr 10, 2007 9:10 pm

I´ve upgraded from a T42 to a T60, and this piece of machinery is marvelous! speedy, quiet, cool and robust as no one before, what else could I ask for the time being? Surely by the end of the year, history will bring new changes again, we are about to enter te terabyte dimension, buses over 1.0ghz, and nand memory disks, so hte best notebook ever built will never ever exist.... maybe I drank too much alcohol tonight too...

Has the last greatest ThinkPad already been made?

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