Thinkpads starting to look awful

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berlin · #1 Post by **berlin** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:26 pm

Just saw a T60 up close at comp usa the other day. boy, it's the fugliest thinkpad I've seen to date, not to mention the awful textured, plastic palm rest material they used. I still have the 600E and the material is nice and rubbery.

the lenovo 3000 c200 front edge, however, looks more like the old T20s T40s with it's beveled design. i guess lenovo is moving the design over to their own brand of laptops. I heard they even planned to wipe out the thinkpad brand a few years back.

on the x series, x30 is the last true IBM thinkpad with the beveled edge. but at least the x60s look a bit cleaner compared to the x40s.

andyP · #2 Post by **andyP** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 3:55 pm

Sorry I have to disagree with you a bit;

agree - the 600 was a magnificently built machine - WOW

The textured plastic came with the T20 and has been there ever since and after years of use still looks the black. (T23 - WOW

). The rubbery texture on a 600 comes off after alot of use, (it becomes silver instead of black

)
If Lenovo drop "ThinkPad" they have no future in main europe and probably the USA. "ThinkPad" is in itself a trademark and judging from this forum maybe cult

. How many people say "I've got an IBM / Lenovo notebook" rather than "I've got a ThinkPad"

On the X series, you forgot the X31 came between the X30 and X40 and still had the beveled edge. I find the X60 the best of the X-series ever.

What really makes a difference is : the 600 which had a metal external housing which is now on the inside of the *60 series, they call it the "RollCage".

cmarti · #3 Post by **cmarti** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 7:10 pm

In the past i had 2 600X 1 600E 1 770Z 1 X30 1T20 1 T40 1 390X and currently i have a X60 and a Z60T and i am currently waiting to arrive 2 X31 and 1 A22p.

My favorites are the 600X and my X60.

#4 Post by **ryengineer** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:17 pm

From 2002-2007 I have owned A31, R51, Z60m, X31, T60 15'', and T60 WS. In my viewpoint since Lenovo took over IBM's pc division, build quality has definitely dropped.

Sloba · #5 Post by **Sloba** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:37 pm

ryengineer wrote:From 2002-2007 I have owned A31, R51, Z60m, X31, T60 15'', and T60 WS. In my viewpoint since Lenovo took over IBM's pc division, build quality has definitely dropped.

I could not agree more. However, is there anyone who has expected something else? Lenovo acquired IBM divisions to exploit goodwill (primarely).
Some time ago, I have read unbeliveable article that I have found insulting my intelligence. It was article about bridge technology (pre-stressed concrete) that is embedded in laptops.
That was by far the most ridiculous thing I have ever read in my life as far as technology is concerned.

#6 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 8:56 pm

Compare a ThinkPad 350, 360, A30/A31 or an iSeries to any shipping T, R or X and then say build quality has dropped. In my opinion, the 600 is the best built series yet but I don't think we've seen a significant drop in quality since 2005.

Temetka · #7 Post by **Temetka** » Wed Apr 18, 2007 11:01 pm

IMO the best looking Thinkpads are the ones that I have owned:

770 (ED iThink)
T23
T41P

Of the 3 I think the T23 looked best, but I really love the multi-colored keyboard in the T41p.

#8 Post by **schen** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 10:41 am

berlin wrote:Just saw a T60 up close at comp usa the other day. boy, it's the fugliest thinkpad I've seen to date, not to mention the awful textured, plastic palm rest material they used. I still have the 600E and the material is nice and rubbery.

Funny... I was just thinking about this the other day when I was examining my new (work) R60. IMHO, I really think I understand the drop-off in "Fit and Finish" since the 600 days when higher end units went for $5000+ and most machine sold for somewhere between $3 and $4000. And that was in late 90s dollars! We'd have no ThinkPads today if they still tried to sell at that price-point.

Anyway, back to the original point. I agree in so much as I think Lenovo is making some major mistakes in the little details that differentiated the ThinkPad in it's overall look. They seem to be deleting the accents (red marking on the mouse buttons, shiney black areas, bevelled edges to give a thinner look, etc.). Overall, IMHO, I feel like the machines are developing a kind of "dull" look whereas the old TPs has an understated elegance with nicely thought out details.

#9 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 3:33 pm

Temetka wrote:Of the 3 I think the T23 looked best, but I really love the multi-colored keyboard in the T41p.

The multi colored key caps from an A30 or A31 will fit on some T2x and A2x keyboards. The dead A30 I have has a keyboard made in Thailand as does my A21p and I was able to fit the multi colored keys to the A21p.

pianowizard · #10 Post by **pianowizard** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 7:42 pm

As much as I admire the 600E's sturdiness, I prefer the looks of pretty much all T and X series Thinkpads. Besides the 600E's overall appearance, I also don't like its rubbery palmrest (too warm and too much friction) and the speakers on the palmrest (they scratch my wrists). On the other hand, the A series is uglier than the 600E, while I haven't seen an R series in person yet.

Stargate199 · #11 Post by **Stargate199** » Thu Apr 19, 2007 8:45 pm

Though I have not personally used a T, R, X 60, they look to be well built machines. It may be true that their build quality has dropped, but compare todays Thinkpads to every other manufacturer's laptop and tell me the Thinkpad is not the superior machine. Thinkpads have a much higher build quality that Dell (I see new Dells at school and they fell like big chucks of plastic), HP, Acer, Sony, etc.

#12 Post by **K. Eng** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 6:33 pm

berlin wrote:Just saw a T60 up close at comp usa the other day. boy, it's the fugliest thinkpad I've seen to date, not to mention the awful textured, plastic palm rest material they used. I still have the 600E and the material is nice and rubbery.

Styling is all personal opinion, so I'll disagree with your conclusion! I think the T60 is the best looking ThinkPad so far. My only complaint is the cheap looking volume and ThinkVantage buttons.

z_24 · #13 Post by **z_24** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 7:04 pm

K. Eng wrote: Styling is all personal opinion, so I'll disagree with your conclusion! I think the T60 is the best looking ThinkPad so far. My only complaint is the cheap looking volume and ThinkVantage buttons.

Same here

#14 Post by **carbon_unit** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:40 pm

Me three!

#15 Post by **AlphaKilo470** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 9:50 pm

Anything looks better than a 12" A series.

ducky2802 · #16 Post by **ducky2802** » Sat Apr 21, 2007 10:03 pm

Somehow, I think the fit and finish on a T60 is better than the T4x series. Ive had the T40, T41, and used a T43, and a few things that gets me every time, are the: gaps between the ultrabay and the optical drive, the PCMCIA cover not closing up to the top, and the loose battery (especially the T40). I like the fit on the T60 much better.

As far as the "rubber coating", I dont recall any T series that Ive used having the rubber coating on the palmrest...just black plastic. Perhaps the others will debate how the Thinkpad line is lowering in quality, but I think the 60 series is a welcome upgrade to the 40 series, but with Lenovo now cutting jobs and relocating the workforce, plus the news that widescreen will be the standards, I wonder what the future will bring. In any event, I would be at the right time to start picking up the T60 series coming off lease!

Techgurl · #17 Post by **Techgurl** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 10:34 am

I saw a T-60 at bestbuy a couple days ago and it looked really cheap like the lenovo laptops not the IBM series.

pianowizard · #18 Post by **pianowizard** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 3:54 pm

I saw one of the 15.4" Z61 models in a Staples store today and that's a very ugly laptop indeed, even worse than the 15.4" widescreen T60. The parallelogram-shaped profile is disgusting!

#19 Post by **ryengineer** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 6:41 pm

Well, others may disagree (I respect their opinions) but build quality has certainly downgraded since Lenovo's take over.

berlin · #20 Post by **berlin** » Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:47 pm

Techgurl wrote:I saw a T-60 at bestbuy a couple days ago and it looked really cheap like the lenovo laptops not the IBM series.

Then again, the chinese aren't known for design and quality, but mass production and copycats.

#21 Post by **BillMorrow** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 3:52 am

what IS this thing about styling..?

thinkpads have only gotten better and better..

you guys argue about the shape of the buttons, well i LIKE the T60 buttons..
nice little pill shaped silver buttons look much better than the rounded buttons on the T40 series.. like jewelry rather than like a chiclet.. (a chiclet, for those who don't know was a small square piece of hard coated chewing gum)

what it all comes down to is personal opinion..
and like noses, everyone has one..

if the lenovo laptops look like thinkpads its because lenovo is copying the thinkpad shape..

how many of you folks who are complaining have actually seen a 700C, 755CD or 760 or 770..?
i have owned all of those and the A series too..
the T60 is, so far, the apex..

believe me when i say this..
if lenovo cheapens the product i will be the first to [censored] loud and long..
which i might do about the loss of the IPS display..

i think they should at least offer an IPS display as an option..

stgreek · #22 Post by **stgreek** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 7:02 am

I do agree that quality of Lenovo Thinkpads looks inferior than, say, a TP600, but then again, the quality of ANY laptop is inferior to a TP600.

Styling changes are unavoidable since Lenovo wants to be more mainstream than IBM ever was, but it is not all gloomy - I have owned around 30 different Thinkpad models and I can safely say that the X60s nearly tops the charts in personal preference.

#23 Post by **schen** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 12:08 pm

This is the cheaper hobby! That's why I've owned so many older ThinkPads...... at a time when they weren't current!

#24 Post by **ryengineer** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:15 pm

schen wrote:This is the cheaper hobby! That's why I've owned so many older ThinkPads...... at a time when they weren't current!

Thinkpads are addictive.

#25 Post by **thePCxp** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:12 am

In my opinion, the ThinkPad's quality has not dropped and they are the coolest looking laptops out there. I think that ThinkPad's have only gotten better and better.

pphilipko · #26 Post by **pphilipko** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:41 pm

berlin wrote:
Techgurl wrote:I saw a T-60 at bestbuy a couple days ago and it looked really cheap like the lenovo laptops not the IBM series.
Then again, the chinese aren't known for design and quality, but mass production and copycats.

That's not only an ineffective argument, but also a completely inane, racist remark.

Please refrain from such comments in the future - remember kid, don't stereotype a race.
_____

As for my opinion, the rollcage features and the more sturdy frame points to a better built thinkpad. Granted, the widescreen T60's are somewhat ugly, but as for quality, the current 60 series far surpass previous generations of thinkpads.

pianowizard · #27 Post by **pianowizard** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 12:58 pm

pphilipko wrote:
berlin wrote:Then again, the chinese aren't known for design and quality, but mass production and copycats.
That's not only an ineffective argument, but also a completely inane, racist remark.

As China gets closer to becoming the next Super Power, we'll see these comments more and more frequently due to jealousy and insecurity. Many countries hate the Americans for the same reason. These comments make the commentators look bad, not the Chinese or the Americans. I wouldn't get too upset by them.

qviri · #28 Post by **qviri** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 5:28 pm

pphilipko wrote:Please refrain from such comments in the future - remember kid, don't stereotype a race.

Chinese is not a race.

#29 Post by **ryengineer** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:13 pm

qviri wrote:
pphilipko wrote:Please refrain from such comments in the future - remember kid, don't stereotype a race.
Chinese is not a race.

sorry guys but I don't see any element of racism here.

#30 Post by **bill bolton** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:34 pm

Since the thread had degenerated into pointlessness, we are done here and it is now closed.

Please move along now... nothing more to see here!

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