So Why Not a T61: anyone saw Matt's entry on Lenovoblogs?

[gator]

http://www.lenovoblogs.com/insidethebox/?p=83

A very honest post from Matt about why he is not "into" the T61, and very, very good post at that. He is in the same regarding the T61 as many of us here, and there are questions for which there seem to be no satisfying answers ...

I'd love to read more opinions on this issue. Please post your comments.

[ryengineer]

Matt's article is very sincere, honest and he has definitely a great sense of humour. Whatever he said is very genuine, I cent percent agree with him.

I’m sticking with Vista primarily because it’s my job to be up to speed on the latest and greatest. I need to be knowledgeable about issues and pains our customers are having with our systems. The best way to do that is to simply use it myself and suffer right along with you.
Waiting for Service Pack 1 is like waiting for Christmas. It can’t arrive soon enough.

I love his blogs too.

Thanks for posting Sri.

[pianowizard]

All that aside, the biggest reason that I haven’t jumped to a T61 yet is that I HATE widescreen displays. Let me repeat that. I HATE HATE HATE widescreen displays.....I’m eventually going to have to use a widescreen notebook, but I don’t have to yet.

Once he actually owns a widescreen notebook and learns that widescreens need to be used differently, he'll like them.

[tomh009]

Hmmmm ... somehow I was expecting PW to say that!

[Kyocera]

Kind of scary....Loving my T60 all that much more right now, it needs a hug
I'm pretty sure those of us that went with Vista did it for similar reasons that matt did, power mgmt is an issue but that's why God gave us dual boot

[Sloba]

I do not about you but I have not seen any manual for widescreen.
Have you?

[pianowizard]

I have not seen any manual for widescreen.
Have you?

It's something that most people can figure out for themselves. One can also browse through the many threads on this forum about the advantages of widescreens.

[GomJabbar]

One can also browse through the many threads on this forum about the advantages of widescreens.

And many other threads about the disadvantages of widescreens...

[carbon_unit]

To each his own preference.

[GomJabbar]

True, yet I could not let PW's statement go unchallenged. I'm on Matt's side.
(Not all of us have yet been assimilated by the Borg. )

[gator]

As much as I try to like widescreen laptops, they somehow feel artificial (for lack of a better word). So I too am on Matt and GomJabbar's side here

[carbon_unit]

I have never tried a widescreen yet but I would like to.

[Eric Giles]

When I was deciding on a T60p a few months ago, I wasn't sure if I should go widescreen or not-in the end I went with the widescreen model. I have now had it about 4 months, and if I had to do it again I would go with the standard 4:3 screen-without hesitation.

The actual display of the widescreen is nice, but I really prefer the smaller footprint and less weight of the 4:3 models. It's just much more convenient overall.

[andrewb]

I admired the blog article for what seemed, to me at least (but I am not very knowledgeable) the refreshing honesty. If I understand correctly, here is someone who is basically giving a heads up that his own employer will no longer be making machines with anything other than widescreens.

In the 8 years, or so, I have been a Thinkpad user, when asked by others to comment on the pros and cons of Thinkpads compared to alternatives from competitors, it is always the screen options (resolution options, type and, now, ratio) which I offer up as the main reason why IBM never succeeded in dominating the laptop market outside of the big corporate users. Now, it seems Lenovo are slowly but surely alienating that market due to complaints about the widescreens being unsuitable for boring, office type work.

I, myself, tried a widescreen for a few weeks, but when working on word heavy documents, the widescreen ratio seems the least suitable to working on reports etc. A high screen, perhaps, but a widescreen gives nothing but acres of wasted real estate on each side of the on screen document and constant scrolling up and down.

I, for one, am treating my T43 with lashings of TLC in the hope that it will serve my purposes for as long as possible now. Ordinarily, I would have be looking for a new machine at the end of this year and was hoping there would be a 4:3, high res 15" T61 or T61p introduced. This now seems unlikely and I will, therefore, be saving the £2,500 + I was quite prepared to spend.

Within my own small circles, I find not only a general dislike for widescreens but, more importantly, a contempt for any company that feels it can propser when offering nothing but a take it or leave it approach. Here, take a widescreen or b**ger off seems to be the message. This may be Ok with the style conscious teenager, but that is not the Thinkpad market.

[lophiomys]

@andrewb
Full ACK

....
BTW the lenovoblogs.com site seems to be down

UPDATE1: site is up again.

[pianowizard]

a widescreen gives nothing but acres of wasted real estate on each side of the on screen document and constant scrolling up and down.

Widescreen 101: Don't maximize the document. Use only half the screen, and set the zoom level at 100%. Now you have the remaining half of the screen for another document/program. People who follow this rule love widescreens. Those who don't hate them.

[snessiram]

@pianowizard: Although true on most external widescreens and high resolution widescreen laptops like a thinkpad, most consumer laptops these day have WXGA and 1280px width just isn't enough to have a real advantage. I think putting 2 documents next to each other is handy from 1600px width and above.

When I look at my school I see hundreds of students surfing fullscreen on widescreen laptops (notice the enormous amount of sites with fixed width about 770px because the designers can't design liquid layouts, so no advantage of widescreen here), instant messaging full screen (I really don't get that one, why would you want your contact list fullscreen ), doing office work.... full widescreen.

Also notice that not everyone wants to be able to put more next to each other. A programmer might prefer more lines of code for example. It's just personal preference.

[K. Eng]

@pianowizard: Although true on most external widescreens and high resolution widescreen laptops like a thinkpad, most consumer laptops these day have WXGA and 1280px width just isn't enough to have a real advantage. I think putting 2 documents next to each other is handy from 1600px width and above.

I also find this to be very true. 1280x800 is barely adequate for 2 MS Office apps side-by-side. The extra horizontal pixels come in handy for the Vista sidebar, but not much else (maybe an IM client as well).

In practice, I've found that only 1400 pixels and up horizontally are really effective for side-by-side work.

1280x800 is effectively the next 1024x768 -- adequate, but only barely.

[pianowizard]

I also find this to be very true. 1280x800 is barely adequate for 2 MS Office apps side-by-side. The extra horizontal pixels come in handy for the Vista sidebar, but not much else (maybe an IM client as well).

I am doing it right now, two MS Word documents side by side, on a 1280x800 screen. Each document has 1" margins and is shown at 100% zoom, and I can see the whole width of the text of both documents. What I did was, I turned off the vertical ruler ("Tools" --> "Options" --> "View" tab --> uncheck "Vertical ruler"), though I kept the vertical scroll bar. I reduced the width of each window so that I could barely see the entire width of the text. I also had to move a little bit of both windows out of the display. It's not a perfect solution, but at least I can view both documents side by side. On a 1024x768 screen, this would be impossible.

[snessiram]

@pianowizard: In your example you're speaking of 2 screens with a different resolution. If you have a similar sized screen but the widescreen having at least the same amount of pixels in height but more pixels in width then I need to agree, it's simply advantage.
Now imagine there exists a screen of 1168x876 (which means the same amount of pixels as a WXGA but 4:3 format). This gives you more vertical space than the WXGA and I think it might be more handy when you're working fullscreen "anyway".
But then again it might really depend on what you're doing. For example when you're into webdesign you need to have a browser with at least 800px width. A WXGA doesn't have advantage over my imaginary screen then as you have less lines of code.

When buying a thinkpad 14" I wouldn't choose a WSXGA over an SXGA+ (the last one offcourse has more pixels) but I would choose WSXGA+ over SXGA+ as it's just advantage (unless your eyes aren't so good). Then again these are all >1400px width so it's more a matter of which has the highest ppi then what the form format is.

Btw I still don't get why *60 series don't need an extreme bezel around the screen and *61 series do.

As far as I know there aren't really screens with a pixel count equal to widescreen formats so let me say:
As long as widescreen means more pixels in width and no loss in height, it's better.

[tomatoeblue]

yes pianowizard, I'm sure that for you personally, viewing 2 documents side by side is useful, but for many types of writing, this function is utterly useless, and very often counterproductive to the task itself. In theory, you could do it, but if you actually look at how people work, not all people *want* to work that way.

And that's one of the weaknesses of widescreen displays. The tool should fit the purpose, not the other way around.

The best thing, I suggest, is a flexi-lcd panel where you could pinch one corner, and stretch it out to fit whatever task you are doing. Kinda like window resizing taken into the real world.

I agree with that blog posting on lenovoblogs that said the current implementation of widescreens are a solution looking for a problem.

[pianowizard]

@pianowizard: In your example you're speaking of 2 screens with a different resolution.

I did that just because in your last post, you had said that 1280 doesn't offer any advantage over 1024. My example argues otherwise, showing that 1280 is just wide enough to show two documents side by side, whereas 1024 isn't.

If you have a similar sized screen but the widescreen having at least the same amount of pixels in height but more pixels in width then I need to agree, it's simply advantage.
Now imagine there exists a screen of 1168x876 (which means the same amount of pixels as a WXGA but 4:3 format).

1168 is still not wide enough for two documents.

For example when you're into webdesign you need to have a browser with at least 800px width. A WXGA doesn't have advantage over my imaginary screen then as you have less lines of code.

Yes, in this case, it's a matter of personal preference. Some people may still want to have 480 horizontal pixels left to show part of a web browser, for example.

As long as widescreen means more pixels in width and no loss in height, it's better.

I agree. I have a 4:3 QXGA (2048x1536) screen on my R50p, which has so many pixels that I can tile four windows on it, one per quadrant. That's much better than a 1680x1050 screen where I can only tile two windows, one on each half. However, people who watch widescreen movies a lot on their laptops will probably still prefer 1280x800 to 1400x1050 or even 1600x1200.

yes pianowizard, I'm sure that for you personally, viewing 2 documents side by side is useful, but for many types of writing, this function is utterly useless, and very often counterproductive to the task itself.

How about the Word document on the left, and Google on the right so that when the writer needs to look up something the web site is right there? How can that be counterproductive?

Or, someone bidding on two auctions on eBay at the same time. Or a Word document on one side and a calculator on the other for people who need to make calculations while writing. Or watching a movie on the left while checking email on the right side? I could go on and on!

but if you actually look at how people work, not all people *want* to work that way.

But I have a different interpretation: These people just haven't been told that two windows can be placed side by side.

[RealBlackStuff]

I'll wait until you have all bought a widescreen T61, then I'll buy one of your 'common' XGA T60s for a song.
As a mainframe programmer and web-designer, anything over 1024x768 is wasted on me.
I even run a 19" CRT at 1024x768 and love it!

[GomJabbar]

I finally placed pianowizard!

[thePCxp]

Within my own small circles, I find not only a general dislike for widescreens but, more importantly, a contempt for any company that feels it can propser when offering nothing but a take it or leave it approach. Here, take a widescreen or b**ger off seems to be the message. This may be Ok with the style conscious teenager, but that is not the Thinkpad market.

I am a teenager and I am not really style conscious. I like how the ThinkPad's look.

I think that Lenovo should offer both standard and widescreen ThinkPad's so that way people can choose what they want, because not everyone wants a widescreen ThinkPad.