Notebook build quality

[JonathanGennick]

I don't know whether I've been living under a rock or what, but I really had my eyes opened yesterday with respect to notebook build quality. I needed to buy my niece something in a hurry for her to use at school, so I poked around a bit at OfficeMax and Walmart. Literally, I "poked".

First up were a couple of HP consumer models. I idly pressed a few keys at the right edge of the keyboard (ENTER, L, semicolon, etc.). I was astounded, absolutely flat-out astounded at the resulting flex. The entire keyboard sagged when I pushed down on the keys. I cannot imagine how anyone could even type on such a thing.

Next was a Dell Inspiron at Walmart. This machine was protected in a display case under a layer of plexiglass, but there was a quarter-sized hole I could reach through to click the buttons and try out the trackpad. Light pressure on the trackpad caused the entire thing to just sag inward. Unbelievable!

Like I say, I feel like I've been living under a rock (the rock that is a Thinkpad!). I am shocked at the flimsiness of the machines that I touched yesterday. I can't imagine spending hundreds of dollars on something so fragile.

(I suppose the solid feel, or the lack thereof, is the difference between so-called "consumer" models and business models)

FWIW, I ended up going online and buying my niece a Thinkpad Z61t. It's replacing a cheap, $300 Gateway that has given her nothing but trouble since she bought it. That's a whole 'nother story though.

[rbena]

I don't know whether I've been living under a rock or what, but I really had my eyes opened yesterday with respect to notebook build quality.

..... I am shocked at the flimsiness of the machines that I touched yesterday. I can't imagine spending hundreds of dollars on something so fragile.

As with a lot of electronic gear, the "difference" between equipment from various companies often lies in the build quality (robustness) and in the warranty and support. Not surprisingly, companies with less than robust equipment often do not offer the best support. And this approach often means lower price - but it's sad to hear your report that laptops are heading toward becoming a consumeable rather than a "durable" item. Is more of a challenge finding a laptop that will hold up over 3-4 years.

Hope the Z61t serves well. And yes, I'll also "vouch" for the Gateway notebook... is a notebook for those who have a lot of "time" to attend to it

[ajkula66]

You've done well with a Z61t. I've had one in my house for a week, and was quite impressed by it, although I'm a dinosaur who can't tolerate widescreens.

HP consumer line, unlike the business one, is a joke. And not a good one, in my opinion.

As for Dell, I've never seen a single one that I'd want to own. Whenever in the past my "bulk" purchases included Dell laptops, these have been donated to charity. Seriously.

Now let's see how ThinkPads and other Lenovo products hold out in the days to come, because I've found keyboards on T61s to be anything but appetizing...and am hoping it's not the sign of change for the worse...

[andrewb]

Now let's see how ThinkPads and other Lenovo products hold out in the days to come, because I've found keyboards on T61s to be anything but appetizing...and am hoping it's not the sign of change for the worse...

I agree. I have tried 3 keyboards on my T60 and there are all substandard compared to the T4Xs, and a very long way from being legendary.

[asiafish]

I have the ALPS keyboard on my T60p and had Thai NMB and ALPS on the T42p laptops I've owned. In general the NMB keyboard were a bit better (IMO), but the T60 chassis is much stiffer. The end result was that the T42p had better key action, but the T60p is better overall because there is absolutely zero chassis flex when using the keyboard.

[pxa270]

Yeah, most of the consumer stuff seems to be built to last exactly the warranty period and not a day longer. But the business lines of the other big manufacturers are usually pretty solid. For example, the Dell Latitude D430 or the HP nc2400 can put up a good fight with the X series.

[pianowizard]

the Dell Latitude D430 or the HP nc2400 can put up a good fight with the X series.

I'm glad to see that someone besides me likes the nc2400. It suits my needs better than any of the existing X-series Thinkpads. But this might change after the Thinkpad X200/300 is released.

[pxa270]

I've only played with it briefly, but the build quality was impressive even to a long time ThinkPad fan.

[aamsel]

the Dell Latitude D430 or the HP nc2400 can put up a good fight with the X series.

I'm glad to see that someone besides me likes the nc2400. It suits my needs better than any of the existing X-series Thinkpads. But this might change after the Thinkpad X200/300 is released.

The HP nc2400 is a discontinued notebook model.
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm ... g=en&cc=us

Andrew

[pianowizard]

The HP nc2400 is a discontinued notebook model.

Of course it is, just like the X60 and countless other Thinkpads. The current model of HP Business's ultraportable non-tablet line is the 2510p, which looks very similar to the nc2400.

[aamsel]

The HP nc2400 is a discontinued notebook model.

Of course it is, just like the X60 and countless other Thinkpads. The current model of HP Business's ultraportable non-tablet line is the 2510p, which looks very similar to the nc2400.

I see, thanks.
I just didn't understand HP's numbering scheme.

Looks like they planned to offer it with a SSD but haven't done it yet.
The "killer" for it is the small 4200rpm drive, lke the X40 series had.

Andrew

[mpcook]

I've been a long time TP 500 and X series fan. My employer got me an HP 2510p whihc I like quite alot, and in fact I would say is getting pretty close to legendary TP territory.

Mike

[aamsel]

I've been a long time TP 500 and X series fan. My employer got me an HP 2510p whihc I like quite alot, and in fact I would say is getting pretty close to legendary TP territory.

Mike

Are the slow hard drives bothersome to you on them?

Andrew

[pianowizard]

The "killer" for it is the small 4200rpm drive, lke the X40 series had.

I don't know why but I used PCMark2002 to benchmark the hard drives of my HP nc2400, first X40 (I've owned three), and Toshiba Portege R100, all of which used 1.8" 4200rpm drives but the nc2400 has a much higher score than the others:

HP nc2400 (60GB): 503
X40 (40GB): 388
Portege R100 (40GB): 333

For comparison, the 60GB 7200rpm drives of my two R50p's scored 643 and 611.

[pxa270]

I guess the latest batch of 1.8" drives are much better than they used to be. After all, they can squeeze 80GB on a single platter now, which is much higher density than the X40 and R100 era 1.8" drives. Though it's still hard to believe it can come close to the 7200rpm 2.5-inchers.

[qviri]

The "killer" for it is the small 4200rpm drive, lke the X40 series had.

I don't know why but I used PCMark2002 to benchmark the hard drives of my HP nc2400, first X40 (I've owned three), and Toshiba Portege R100, all of which used 1.8" 4200rpm drives but the nc2400 has a much higher score than the others:

Could you do an hdtune test of the drive? It's a small download and unintrusive install, and should give more concrete data than a point scale.

[miketl]

Can anyone offer a comparison of the HP trackpoint to the ThinkPad's?

[JaneL]

Can anyone offer a comparison of the HP trackpoint to the ThinkPad's?

It varies from system to system. I've had two seemingly identical HP Compaq nc6220 models at work, and one pointing stick was great while the other... wasn't. On the other hand, the first keyboard was unusable while the second one is solid. I decided that if I had to choose between decent keyboard and decent pointing stick I could just use a mouse. YMMV

[pianowizard]

Could you do an hdtune test of the drive?

HP nc2400 (1.8" 4200rpm 60GB, HTC426060G8CE00)
Transfer Rate:
Minimum = 2.9 MB/sec
Maximum = 22.4 MB/sec
Average = 17.6 MB/sec
Access Time: 19.7 ms
Burst Rate: 64.9 MB/sec
CPU Usage: 2.4%

IBM Thinkpad R50p (2.5" 7200rpm 60GB, HTS726060M9AT00)
Transfer Rate:
Minimum = 1.3 MB/sec
Maximum = 36.8 MB/sec
Average = 26.6 MB/sec
Access Time: 14.4 ms
Burst Rate: 77.7 MB/sec
CPU Usage: 3.0%

Can anyone offer a comparison of the HP trackpoint to the ThinkPad's?

My nc2400's original trackpoint is slippery and too small. But one can easily replace it with a Thinkpad cap.

[lightweight]

Please excuse the tangent --

pianowizard, happen to know the drive manufacturer?

At those speeds I would more seriously consider switching to 4200RPM, especially if the difference in real-world power consumption vs 5400RPM is significant.

[pianowizard]

pianowizard, happen to know the drive

It's a Hitachi Travelstar.