Potential 1st time Thinkpad owner.....need some advice....

[mazr]

1st time poster and potential Thinkpad owner.

I've been looking on ebay for a while at Thinkpads. I know the quality is excellent. I'm very glad I found this site, because if we decide on a Thinkpad, I would like to buy off of here. Not really looking at new right now. I'm looking at "recycling" our first laptop because of our uses for it.

We're looking to replace our 7 year old Compaq desktop, which has been awesome. We were going to go Apple, but just can't justify the cost for what we use our computer for.

We basically email, surf, download photos and the kids like to watch streaming videos. I'm not sure what model to look at, but I'm thinking the T40 line. The X series screens would be a little small for us. I don't think we would be too mobile with our laptop, maybe an occasional trip to the coffee shop.

Now some questions:

Would I be better off spending a little more and just getting a Toshiba, HP, Dell, etc. laptop? The specs would be better, but would we need the upgrades anyway since we wouldn't be doing anything heavy duty? I know the difference is the build quality. But going new we would have the warranty. But I don't want anything to do with Vista. We have had no problems with XP. And personally, I love the looks of Thinkpads.

How upgradeable are Thinkpads?

I can't really think of any other questions right now. Thanks in advance for any help.

[underclocker]

Would I be better off spending a little more and just getting a Toshiba, HP, Dell, etc. laptop?

Welcome to the forum!

Well, that is the question. For example, you can buy a really nice, used, 2-4 year old T42 or T43 for $300 - $350 or a brand new Acer, Dell, etc. for about the same (yes, occasionally new machines sell in this range).

The new machines will definitely have spec's that blow away any T42, usually including 3GB of RAM, 160GB drive, dual core CPU, DVD burner, 1 yr. warranty, etc. ThinkPads are upgradeable and fun to work on, but you can't stuff a Core Duo CPU into a Pentium M-based machine - there are limits.

We've all been faced with this troubling, even pivotal question. Here is the secret. It can not be answered with a spec. comparison. It's more of a personality assessment. Do you want a hobby, sense of pride in ownership, peace of mind that you bought a one time standard, admission to a community that practically worships ThinkPads? Or, are you a typical consumer - happy to have something new and shiny with flashing LEDs that can be disposed of when it inevitably breaks?

As Morpheous said, "You take the blue pill and the story ends. You wake in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill and you stay in Wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit-hole goes. Remember -- all I am offering is the truth, nothing more."

The choice is yours.

(Seriously, it's a tough call!)

[craigmontHunter]

If you decide to get a thinkpad, I would reccomend either a R51 with intel graphics, or a t43 to avoid the problem with the GPU issue on the t40-t42.

I would not reccomend an acer, because I had one over a year ago for 6 monthes, and it spent more time being fixed than I had it - I had to get the motherboard and keyboard repaired through warrenty, and we had to pay to replace the screen when it cracked. One thing to remember about the cheaper systems is that they normally have a celeron/athalon 64, so they are single core -- but you can upgrade the celerons to coreduo systems if you feel like spending a day trying to open it up.

Thinkpads normally come with xp, there are a few with windows 2000, so just make sure you double check, and they should handle everything you want to do, just make sure that you have 1gb of ram, and it will fly with most programs.

With the warrenty, if anything happens to a thinkpad (especially t4x), there are generally parts galore on ebay, and the HMM is a free download from lenovo, so it is possible to replace anything that breaks yourself, just set out a couple of hours to do it. Screens are not normally covered with the warrenty of most laptops, and they are the most expensive thing to replace. Normally the warrenty only lasts a year unless you pay more, so once it expires, it costs more to get replacement parts than it does to buy a new system. With older generations of thinkpads, it is fairly cheap and easy to buy any part you need to replace, so provided that you look around the forum, it sould be fairly easy to find the least error prone system, that will probably outlast anything from another company.

if I have confused you, sorry about that, I just tried to awnser your questions and throw in some things that I have learned with the new consumer computers.

[hausman]

We're looking to replace our 7 year old Compaq desktop, which has been awesome... We basically email, surf, download photos and the kids like to watch streaming videos... I don't think we would be too mobile with our laptop, maybe an occasional trip to the coffee shop.

As much as I'm a ThinkPad fan (I've never owned any other brand of notebook), I suspect you'd be better served with a new, inexpensive notebook rather than a T4x or similar. You've had the desktop for 7 years so evidently you don't upgrade systems often. A T4x is now several years old. Even if you maxed out RAM, replaced the HD, etc. it's not going to have a useful service life of 7 years. A new notebook, if the hardware lasts that long, probably will. Since you intend to use it as a desktop replacement rather than as a mobile device, the "heavy duty"-ness of a ThinkPad compared to entry-level competitors isn't likely to be an issue.

Would I be better off spending a little more and just getting a Toshiba, HP, Dell, etc. laptop?

Don't rule out a new lower-end ThinkPad or IdeaPad notebook. They're not that much more expensive yet have most of the attributes of more expensive ThinkPad models. Also have a look at Lenovo's Outlet website where you can buy unopened returns and refurbished models at a substantial discount to new.

I don't want anything to do with Vista.

That pretty well rules out any new PC or notebook sold today While the aversion to Vista was warranted when it first came out, IMO since SP1 it's now worth reconsidering. There are simple ways to "upgrade" Vista to look and feel like XP. Change the user interface to Classic, lose the Aero interface and other eye candy, turn off UAC, etc. and soon Vista will stop being so objectionable. (Besides, soon Windows 7 will be out which, based on beta comments, will be a significant advance over Vista.)

A few related comments. Plan on buying an external keyboard and mouse, as well as an external LCD monitor. All three on notebooks are compromises due to size and weight limitations. It's possible that your existing keyboard and mouse will plug into the notebook, especially if they have USB rather than PS2 plugs. The problem with the LCDs that come in notebooks is their small size and usually poor display quality. It's worth spending $200 or $300 to get 22" or 24" external monitor.

As for watching streaming videos, note that T4x ThinkPads have 4:3 screens (like on old CRT TVs and computer monitors) while new notebooks have 16:9 or 16:10 widescreen panels that are more suitable for watching video.

[YW-Slayer]

And on the theme of low-end Thinkpads, I'd say have a look at the R400. It's pretty a bit heavier and larger than the T-Series, and I don't think it'll be as durable, but it'll still probably be a better (albeit more expensive) bet than the SL-series.

If you don't mind buying refurbed, I would highly recommend looking at the LenovoOutlet (if you're in the US) or the IbmOutlet on eBay (if you're outside the US).

Given your requirements, I agree with hausman. You're probably better off getting something like a "normal"-priced ASUS, HP, Dell than a used T4x. Better bang for the buck, especially if you don't need them to be too durable. Just make sure the screen and keyboard are good (or at least meet your needs) and that you can perhaps upgrade the HDD and RAM down the road if required.

If on the other hand you can find a refurbed T61/T400/R400 within your price range, then by all means go for it. If you really, really, REALLY want a Thinkpad, you'll know that you do, and you'll know why you want one (like I always jokingly tell my friends, once you go black, you never go back. ). But if not, try the other stuff out by all means...

[mazr]

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm checking the Lenovo outlet and I like what I see. I have no problems with refurbs. For some reason, I didn't even think about checking the website. Prices are nice also. I would rather go with a refurb than a new HP, Dell, etc. just based on build quality. Or are the new ones not as durable as the old series?

Now my question: For our basic needs, what would be the recommended memory/HD? I'm thinking that 1 or 2 GB Mem. and 80 to 100 GB HD would do the trick. But please, correct me if I'm wrong. I've been out of the computer market for quite a while. Also, if I want a DVD/CD burner, what is the drive phrasing I'm looking for? I've seen a R400 with 3GB Mem/160GB HD with only a DVD listed on the optical storage. Does that mean the CD's won't work with it?

Awesome site, BTW.

[hausman]

For our basic needs, what would be the recommended memory/HD? I'm thinking that 1 or 2 GB Mem. and 80 to 100 GB HD would do the trick.

I would use at least 2GB with Vista (or 1GB with XP.) The good news is that RAM is cheap. I've seen 2GB for as little as $10 on sale so you can add more without breaking your budget.

As for HD space, these days 80GB to 100GB is a bit tight, especially if you want to store photos and videos. You can upgrade to a 320GB HD for around $50 if you have basic mechanical and software skills. There are several threads on this forum that describe how to do it. Alternatively you can add an external USB HD to store large files, backups, etc.

Also, if I want a DVD/CD burner, what is the drive phrasing I'm looking for? I've seen a R400 with 3GB Mem/160GB HD with only a DVD listed on the optical storage. Does that mean the CD's won't work with it?

All DVD drives are also capable of reading CDs. Likewise all DVD burners are capable of writing to CDs as well.

BTW although you didn't ask, consider that with the current low prices of 8GB and 16GB USB thumb drives the need to use CDs for backing up data and media has greatly diminished. Thumb drives are also much more convenient to use because they look to the operating system like small HDs or gigantic floppies, i.e. you can just copy data to them rather than have to burn a data set explicitly. And of course, you can reuse them 1000s of times.

[YW-Slayer]

That R400 you were viewing sounds like a good match for your requirements, as long as you don't need to burn DVDs (if it burns any discs, it would PROBABLY only burn CDs, but we would need to see the description to be sure - although as hausman said it will definitely read all CDs and DVDs).

3GB RAM would probably be fine for Vista or XP on that machine.

I think that you'd be able to swap out the 160GB for a 320GB in 1-2 years' time if absolutely necessary. Alternatively use an external HDD as suggested. For example, while my coming X301 might a bit tight on storage space, having only a 64GB SSD, I only intend to use it on the go, and will be taking a shock-resistant (rubberised) 250GB HDD with me for storing large files. I also have an 8GB Sandisk Cruzer Contour, which was extremely cheap even when I bought it over a year ago, for storing medium-sized files.

[mazr]

Well.....as much as I wanted to go with a Thinkpad, I picked up a new Toshiba with 3GB and a 200 GB hard drive for $450.

And it's sweet. This is absolutely blazing compared to our old system. Our DSL is now broadband-like.

Thanks for all the input.

[YW-Slayer]

Fair enough, sounds like you got great specs for a bargain price. My wife is also a fan of Toshiba notebooks. Enjoy your computer.